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Pushback-turn problem and FSUIPC


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#1 rcbarend

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 02:04 AM

Hi Pete,

First of all, I know all about the famous "continous event" problem by ill-designed gauges, that give a lot of users headaches with keysequences like "Shift-P 2" (pushback turnright) and "E 3" (Select Engine3).

In fact, I've made several freeware gauges in XML myself to bypass these problems in FS9.

But this problem in FSX / FSUIPC has got me stumped.

I use:
- Normal retail version of FSX, de Luxe
- FSUIPC 4.01, unregistered, is installed.
- A flight with the default 737, default panel.cfg , no other addons except FSUIPC installed.

Here's what happens:
- Without FSUIPC installed: they sequence "Shift-P 1" to start a pushback with a turn after a full length, works perfect (always)
- WITH FSUIPC installed, this sequence doesnot work (never). FSX simply doesnot connect the "1" key to the "Shift-P" key, so the aircraft doesn't turn.

Even in my Pushback XML gauge (where I bypass the "continuous event" problem by giving a Toggle_pushback and Select_2 event in the same cycle, FSX doesnot respond (with FSUIPC installed) to the Select_2 event; which I can see by monitoring the Pushback State variable.

Could you have any explanation for this ???
Can you reproduce this yourself ??

If it helps: I also made a logfile of FSUIPC, and it amazed me (but that might be normal) that there are so many wheather-related lines in there.

Snapshot:
405141 WX Received in 0 mSecs, WX request type 5, Lat=52.3129, Lon=4.7628, Alt=0.0m
405141 Weather Received (type 4 request, Interpolated): "????&A0 121227Z 00000KT&D609NG 100KM&B-1500&D6072 CLR 15/05 Q1013 "
405141 WX Received in 0 mSecs, WX request type 4, Lat=52.3129, Lon=4.7628, Alt=-0.4m
405563 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 66483 (0x000103b3), Param= 0 (0x00000000) TOGGLE_PUSHBACK
405563 *** EVENT: Cntrl= 65538 (0x00010002), Param= 0 (0x00000000) SELECT_2
406156 Weather Read request (At Aircrft) to area 4: ICAO="GLOB", Lat=52.31, Lon=4.76, Alt=-0.4, Req=2
406156 Weather Received (type 4 request, Interpolated): "????&A0 121227Z 00000KT&D609NG 100KM&B-1500&D6072 CLR 15/05 Q1013 "
406156 WX Received in 0 mSecs, WX request type 4, Lat=52.3129, Lon=4.7628, Alt=-0.4m

Which also shows the that my gauge gives the Toggle_pushback and Select_2 event in the same cycle.

And to make it even more weird: keysequences like "E 2" (Select engine 2) and "Shift-E 2" (Select Exit 2) works OK, with or without FSUIPC installed.

Any idea's ???

Regards, Rob Barendregt
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#2 Pete Dowson

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 09:40 AM

First of all, I know all about the famous "continous event" problem by ill-designed gauges, that give a lot of users headaches with keysequences like "Shift-P 2" (pushback turnright) and "E 3" (Select Engine3).


Yes, there are (switchable) facisities in FSUIPC3 and 4 to deal with these. With FSUIPC you can even have intervening controls -- for instance during pushback you can look sideways out of the windows and determine when to use the 1 or 2 for turning.

- Normal retail version of FSX, de Luxe
- FSUIPC 4.01, unregistered, is installed.


Ah, with it unregistered you don't have access to the facility I just described. FSUIPC monitors controls for logging but does nothing with them.

- Without FSUIPC installed: they sequence "Shift-P 1" to start a pushback with a turn after a full length, works perfect (always)
- WITH FSUIPC installed, this sequence doesnot work (never). FSX simply doesnot connect the "1" key to the "Shift-P" key, so the aircraft doesn't turn.


Hmmm. Strange.

The engine selection and pushback controls are like the joystick axis controls, in that FSUIPC4 intercepts them and passes them on, in case it is being asked to operate the facilities I mention above or to do joystick calibration. All other controls are merely monitored, not intercepted and forwarded.

This works fine even for unregistered users EXCEPT for those who are using some thrid party security packages. I've not had your particular problem reported before, but there have been at least two folks with ridiculous delays building up on the joystick inputs -- 5 to 30 seconds (!!!) was quoted. Please see thread http://forums.simfli...pic.php?t=56572.

Could you have any explanation for this ???


See above, that seems the most likely. Have you experienced delays in joystick response? Apparently they build up over time.

Can you reproduce this yourself ??


Well, it all worked last time I checked, but of course I'm normally registered. I'll re-test without today. and let you know.

If it helps: I also made a logfile of FSUIPC, and it amazed me (but that might be normal) that there are so many wheather-related lines in there.


Only if you opt to Log Weather details. All versions of FSUIPC have always read the weather at regular intervals. In FSX's case there are three weather reads normally -- at the aircraft (interpolated), at the nearest weather station, and the global settings. The first is read at the interval specified in the INI, the others at multiples of that.

I did consider only logging it when it changed, as in FS2004, but in fact it changes nearly all the time so it was a waste of code.

Which also shows the that my gauge gives the Toggle_pushback and Select_2 event in the same cycle.

And to make it even more weird: keysequences like "E 2" (Select engine 2) and "Shift-E 2" (Select Exit 2) works OK, with or without FSUIPC installed.


Hmmm. That is surprising as they are treated identically in FSUIPC4.

To make sure we are comparing apples with apples and not with oranges, could you test the pushback not with your gauge but with the keystrokes as you are the E's and Shift-E's? And vice versa perhaps?

Can you tell me exactly what security software you are running (firewall, virus, privacy). Check the other threads here, see if anything applies to you too. Maybe test without any of that?

Meanwhile I'll do some more checking here to see why the E's and Shift-E's could be different to the Shift-Ps.

Regards,

Pete
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#3 Pete Dowson

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 11:42 AM

- Without FSUIPC installed: they sequence "Shift-P 1" to start a pushback with a turn after a full length, works perfect (always)
- WITH FSUIPC installed, this sequence doesnot work (never). FSX simply doesnot connect the "1" key to the "Shift-P" key, so the aircraft doesn't turn.


Okay, I've found out what I think is happening. Luckily in this case it isn't one of those simconnect blockages I was afraid of.

With all these sequences involving a SELECT 1-4 after the control, I intercept them and forward them, but with a different SimConnect prioriy -- this is deliberate so I don't get them back again in an infinite loop.

That applies to the Engine select, the Exit select and all the 1-4 selection keys, but for some reason it doesn't actually apply to the Pushback control. It works for a registered user because it refers to the pushback state in the offset (I allow an infinite time for the turn in a pushback, as I can tell whether it is still pushing or not, but only 4 seconds, default, for Engine and Exit selection).

So, the pushback control is not currently actually being intercepted at all, only detected. The select 1 or 2 controls are intercepted and routed through with a different priority.

This should still work -- I can only think that the change in priority somehow changes its association within SimConnect.

I'll fix that by intercepting the pushback control too, but I think, in an unregistered copy, I'll bypass all interception in any case as it is pointless as the intercepted controls cannot be adjusted then in any case.

Thanks for the report. This'll be fixed in an update I'll release on the weekend, but if you need it more urgently let me know and i'll make you an interim (though of course I'd rather get on and do more;-)).

Regards,

Pete
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#4 rcbarend

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 12:03 PM

Hi Pete,

I know of the firewall/virusscanner problems.
I use AVG and ZoneAlarm, and also had that "addon menu" problem.

And FSUIPC (when used by a gauge, see the other post about licence keys) works fine itself as long as I place FSX in the trusted zone of the firewall.

I also have no controller problem (yoke / stick / pedals).

But again, for the test with "Shift-P 2" I used 3 setups:
- The standard B737 panel.cfg with NO added gauges and manual input of "Shift-P 2".
- With a small XML test gauge added to the panel.cfg that does nothing more than monitoring the Pushback state variable.
- With the same test gauge, but now I issue the TogglePushback and Select_2 events by clicking that gauge.
(so the last test also proves that the problem is related to the events itself, not the keyboard keys that also generate it).

I even tried it with all controllers Off, and firewall shutdown, and AVG completely de-installed.
But always the same behaviour:
- It works fine with FSUIPC not installed
- It doesn't work with FSUIPC installed.

Thanks, Rob
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#5 rcbarend

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 12:14 PM

Hi Pete,

You just replied when I was composing my answer :lol:

Glad you found the probable cause.

Of course it's up to you if you want to make an interim version or not (I can imagine the extra work).
On the other hand (if you don't mind !) I would appreciate an interim version to test with. This Pushback feature is a very tricky thing in FSX, especially if you want to control the pushback tugs as well.

Example: in my new gauge, there should be a short delay between the end of a pushback and the moving away of the tug in the scenery.
Now, I can accomplish that by, at the end of the normal pushback, issueing a repeated TogglePushback command for a few seconds, which causes the aircraft to remain in place with the tug coupled to it. Not a nice solution, but it works great :-)

And I just want to make sure that intercepting toggle_pushback events in FSUIPC (If I understand you correctly) doesn't interfere with that.

Thanks, Rob
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#6 Pete Dowson

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 12:30 PM

On the other hand (if you don't mind !) I would appreciate an interim version to test with.


Okay. I'll email you something this afternoon.

Pete
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#7 rcbarend

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Posted 18 October 2006 - 01:13 PM

Thanks Pete, for your (as usual) excellent assistance !!

Best regards, Rob
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