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#1 netshadoe

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Posted 16 January 2011 - 08:11 PM

Hello,

This will be hard to explain, but I am having a problem with my AI Traffic in FSX not being released from the traffic tables when landed. I noticed this when I was sitting at KBFI and noticed that landing aircraft at KSEA shown on FS Commander did not disappear from the display after the aircraft had landed resulting in a cloud of AI Traffic at the arrival end of the runway until some timeout removed them one by one.

I've included screen shots of such aircraft in this post. In the first one, this first culprit is Alaska 702, frozen at the threshold and still in the traffic table. In the second shot, Horizon Air 612, 539, and 452 joined in the cloud and are still in the traffic table.

I did some testing and have found the following:

1. It seems to happen only when I am on the ground over 3nm away. If I slew some altitude, the table updates. If I move toward KSEA on the ground, the table updates when I get around 3nm away. When I look toward KSEA when I slew up, I can see the aircraft have landed. So what I can figure is that the AI Aircraft function properly in FSX, but the traffic tables are not being updated when aircraft land while I am on the ground over 3nm away.

2. I've tried limiting TCAS ranges from 10nm, 20nm, 40nm, and unlimited ("0"). This seem to have no effect.

3. I've tried it without FS Commander running. No change.

4. I've tried different aircraft with no results

5. I tried AISmooth and AISeparation. The fact that these traffic "ghosts" exist prevents AISeparation from running properly in the approach phase as it tries to separate an approaching aircraft from the "ghost". I have not noticed any AISmooth effects.

Here is what I am using.

-FSX Acceleration
-FSUIPC 4.651 (also happening in 4.60a)
-WideFS 6.839
-FS Commander 8.6 over WideFS

Also, I have not encountered this on my FS9 install with same settings and AI Traffic.

Also, I sent my .cfg file in a txt.

Thanks in advance!

Devin

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#2 Pete Dowson

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Posted 17 January 2011 - 11:08 AM

This will be hard to explain, but I am having a problem with my AI Traffic in FSX not being released from the traffic tables when landed. I noticed this when I was sitting at KBFI and noticed that landing aircraft at KSEA shown on FS Commander did not disappear from the display after the aircraft had landed resulting in a cloud of AI Traffic at the arrival end of the runway until some timeout removed them one by one.

Removed them from the FSX outside view too, or do you mean they remain listed in FSUIPC's tables even after disappearing in FSX?

I've included screen shots of such aircraft in this post. In the first one, this first culprit is Alaska 702, frozen at the threshold and still in the traffic table. In the second shot, Horizon Air 612, 539, and 452 joined in the cloud and are still in the traffic table.

And these aircraft are, or are not, shown by FSX?

Sorry, I'm not clear whether you are talking about a problem of FSUIPC not receiving update information from SimConnect or about FSX itself not removing AI aircraft when it should.

I did some testing and have found the following:

1. It seems to happen only when I am on the ground over 3nm away. If I slew some altitude, the table updates. If I move toward KSEA on the ground, the table updates when I get around 3nm away. When I look toward KSEA when I slew up, I can see the aircraft have landed. So what I can figure is that the AI Aircraft function properly in FSX, but the traffic tables are not being updated when aircraft land while I am on the ground over 3nm away.

FSUIPC can only update the tables when SimConnect advises it of changes. So it sounds as if either SimConnect is stalling or is simply too busy to bother providing the information. What sort of frame rates are you getting? does the FSUIPC4 log file show any SimConnect problems, like re-connections?

Also, I have not encountered this on my FS9 install with same settings and AI Traffic.

SimConnect doesn't exist in FS9, and FSUIPC has direct hooks into all of FS9's important bits. ;-)

I've not seen this phenomenon before, but it smacks of slow or missing updates from SimConnect. We could get more information with a SimConnect log, but it would be absolutely huge unless you can generate the condition within a very short time after loading FSX.

Regards
Pete
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#3 netshadoe

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 12:02 AM

Hi Pete,

Removed them from the FSX outside view too, or do you mean they remain listed in FSUIPC's tables even after disappearing in FSX?


As far as I can tell, the aircraft are not gone from FSX....they have landed and are taxiing on the airport. But I can't tell for sure because if I get closer than 3nm the tables update...or if I gain altitude in slew, again the tables update. It only happens when I'm on the ground over 3nm away. It doesn't happen if I'm at the airport where the aircraft is landing...everything updates fine when I'm in the 3nm radius.

And these aircraft are, or are not, shown by FSX?


They seem to be in FSX taxiing on the airport.

Sorry, I'm not clear whether you are talking about a problem of FSUIPC not receiving update information from SimConnect or about FSX itself not removing AI aircraft when it should.


I'm thinking that FSUIPC isn't receiving the updates from SimConnect. FSX seems to be working like it should. I'm a FSX/SimConnect virgin, as I have finally taken the plunge to move over from FS9!! :grin::)

So bear with me!! :wink:

FSUIPC can only update the tables when SimConnect advises it of changes. So it sounds as if either SimConnect is stalling or is simply too busy to bother providing the information. What sort of frame rates are you getting? does the FSUIPC4 log file show any SimConnect problems, like re-connections?

I've not seen this phenomenon before, but it smacks of slow or missing updates from SimConnect. We could get more information with a SimConnect log, but it would be absolutely huge unless you can generate the condition within a very short time after loading FSX.


Alright, I didn't know FSUIPC4 worked with SimConnect. Now I know!

I get about 12-15FPS in Seattle, I get about 30+FPS in normal flight. I run a core2 Duo 3MHz with 8Gigs of RAM and a high end video card on Vista64.

My SimConnect and FSUIPC logs are here:

http://rapidshare.co.../SimConnect.log

http://rapidshare.co...369/FSUIPC4.log

http://rapidshare.co...UIPC4-small.log

Just for your info:

Alaska 114 (Ref#1758 in TrafficLook) froze at about 500 seconds.
Horizon 381 (Ref#1787) froze around the 610 second mark.
Horizon 289 (Ref#1786) froze around 640 seconds in.

Around the 662 second mark, I went into slew and increased my altitude and made the table update.

I only have a problem when the aircraft goes from LANDING to GROUND. They work fine from GROUND to TAKEOFF to ENROUTE to LANDING phases.

Let me know if there is anything you'd like me to try or log.

Thanks much Pete!! :)

Devin
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#4 Pete Dowson

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 12:31 AM

As far as I can tell, the aircraft are not gone from FSX....they have landed and are taxiing on the airport. But I can't tell for sure because if I get closer than 3nm the tables update...or if I gain altitude in slew, again the tables update. It only happens when I'm on the ground over 3nm away. It doesn't happen if I'm at the airport where the aircraft is landing...everything updates fine when I'm in the 3nm radius.

Hmm. Strange. do you have the Traffic Explorer installed, the one which comes with the FSX SDK? If so you could check on the aircraft there, just as a crosscheck.

There must be something holding up the updates which SimConnect send on changes in AI. Do ALL the AI appear to freeze in the tables? I can't really understand what could be happening if all the information arrives except for a selected group of AI arircraft hovering in "a cloud of AI Traffic at the arrival end of the runway " (to quote your report).

I get about 12-15FPS in Seattle, I get about 30+FPS in normal flight.

sounds okay.

My SimConnect and FSUIPC logs are here:
http://rapidshare.co.../SimConnect.log
http://rapidshare.co...369/FSUIPC4.log


Those links take me to a place which wants money for a reasonable download speed. Would you mind, instead, please sending them to me at petedowson@btconnect.com. but not yet. The FSUIPC log should be short enough to simply paste here, into your messages. Let me see that first.

Just for your info:
Alaska 114 (Ref#1758 in TrafficLook) froze at about 500 seconds.
Horizon 381 (Ref#1787) froze around the 610 second mark.
Horizon 289 (Ref#1786) froze around 640 seconds in.

Ah, so they only "freeze" when they get to a certain position, or near? In the order they get there?

Can you reproduce this at different airports, or does it only happen there?

It really is now not sounding so much like a SimConnect info hold-up but more of a genuine AI traffic hold up. You would need the Traffic Explorer installed to check in a different way from SimConnect -- Traffic Explorer doesn't use SimConnect.

I only have a problem when the aircraft goes from LANDING to GROUND.

Are the apparently frozen aircraft appearing in the Ground table before disappearing from the airborne table?

You said " I tried AISmooth and AISeparation". Are they, or any other traffic manipulation programs, running when you get this?

Regards
Pete
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#5 netshadoe

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 03:37 AM

Hi Pete,

Hmm. Strange. do you have the Traffic Explorer installed, the one which comes with the FSX SDK? If so you could check on the aircraft there, just as a crosscheck.


Did that, and I can confirm that the aircraft do land and taxi-in to the stands according to Traffic Explorer. Though the traffic is still not being updated in FSUIPC according to TrafficLook. (By the way, I've run TrafficLook on my FSX PC to confirm that it isn't a WideFS or networking problem).

There must be something holding up the updates which SimConnect send on changes in AI. Do ALL the AI appear to freeze in the tables? I can't really understand what could be happening if all the information arrives except for a selected group of AI arircraft hovering in "a cloud of AI Traffic at the arrival end of the runway " (to quote your report).


Do you mean when my "cloud" is formed? Other than that frozen "cloud" of landing AC at the approach end of the runway, all other aircraft update fine during the refresh. The lat/long values and altitudes of the aircraft on takeoff and en route continue to update normally. Only the ones transitioning from approach to landing are "frozen" in FSUIPC. It happens when the aircraft flares to land.

Those links take me to a place which wants money for a reasonable download speed. Would you mind, instead, please sending them to me at petedowson@btconnect.com. but not yet. The FSUIPC log should be short enough to simply paste here, into your messages. Let me see that first.


You should be able to get them anyway...just click "slow download" on the right side and then "Download Now!" that comes up on the next page...you shouldn't have to pay a dime... :)

Ah, so they only "freeze" when they get to a certain position, or near? In the order they get there?


It seems it happens when they are flaring to land....same place for every aircraft.

Can you reproduce this at different airports, or does it only happen there?


I can reproduce it at any airport.

It really is now not sounding so much like a SimConnect info hold-up but more of a genuine AI traffic hold up. You would need the Traffic Explorer installed to check in a different way from SimConnect -- Traffic Explorer doesn't use SimConnect.


The traffic continues on it merry way to the gates according to Traffic Explorer.

Are the apparently frozen aircraft appearing in the Ground table before disappearing from the airborne table?



No, they are not in the ground table. They remain frozen in the Airborne table.

You said " I tried AISmooth and AISeparation". Are they, or any other traffic manipulation programs, running when you get this?


Nothing that I know of, uless there is some hidden setting. I was only running FSX and TrafficLook on the FSX machine for my tests with the same results.

Here is my FSUIPC log:

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.651 by Pete Dowson *********
Reading options from "D:\FSX\Modules\FSUIPC4.ini"
Trying to connect to SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07 ...
User Name="Devin Pollock"
User Addr="netshadoe@xplornet.com"
FSUIPC4 Key is provided
WideFS7 Key is provided
Running inside FSX on Windows Vista (using SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)
Module base=61000000
Wind smoothing fix is fully installed
DebugStatus=255
686 System time = 17/01/2011 16:57:37
733 FLT UNC path = "\\HOST\C ON GAMING\Users\Devin Pollock\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\"
733 FS UNC path = "\\HOST\D ON GAMING\FSX\"
1404 LogOptions=00000000 00000001
1404 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay
15023 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61637.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61259.0)
15023 Initialising SimConnect data requests now
15023 FSUIPC Menu entry added
16146 \\HOST\C ON GAMING\users\devin pollock\documents\flight simulator x files\A2A.FLT
16146 C:\Users\Devin Pollock\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\KBFI-CYOW.PLN
16146 \\HOST\D ON GAMING\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\WoS_B377\b377.AIR
16146 C:\Users\Devin Pollock\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\KBFI-CYOW.PLN
85364 System time = 17/01/2011 16:59:02, Simulator time = 05:37:28 (13:37Z)
85395 Aircraft="Boeing Stratocruiser, CP Air"
86440 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled
100917 Ready Flags: Ready-To-Fly=Y, In Menu=Y, In Dlg=Y
[Log closed by user request, and continued in new file]
108280 System time = 17/01/2011 16:59:24, Simulator time = 05:37:31 (13:37Z)
108280 *** FSUIPC log file being closed
Average frame rate for running time of 4 secs = 13.4 fps
Memory managed: 41 Allocs, 7 Freed
********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***********


You are one patient man Pete, and a programming Guru!! :)

Devin
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#6 Pete Dowson

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:57 AM

Other than that frozen "cloud" of landing AC at the approach end of the runway, all other aircraft update fine during the refresh. The lat/long values and altitudes of the aircraft on takeoff and en route continue to update normally. Only the ones transitioning from approach to landing are "frozen" in FSUIPC. It happens when the aircraft flares to land.

Hmm. Curiouser and curiouser. That certainly doesn't sound like SimConnect not sending the updates.

I'm going to have to try to reproduce it here so I can see what is going on.

You should be able to get them anyway...just click "slow download" on the right side and then "Download Now!" that comes up on the next page...you shouldn't have to pay a dime... Posted Image

I saw that, but it was quoting 4 minutes or something silly like that for a download. There was no point at the time, anyway.

I can reproduce it at any airport.

Okay. in that case I should be able to here, too. Can you EMAIL me a FLT+WX pair of files to put my aircraft at a position where it can be seen to occur? Are you using default AI or an add-on, BTW?

You said "it seems to happen only when I am on the ground over 3nm away". If this is indeed the case then it might explain why no one else has seen it or reported it, including me. Being on the ground at a distance from another airport does seem to be an unusual place to worry about traffic clouds at that airport, as presumably you aren't about to take such a sohrt hop over to it .... or are you?

I'll try reproducing it here.

Regards
Pete
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#7 Pete Dowson

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 12:46 PM

I'll try reproducing it here.

Okay, I can see what is happening.

The range for including ground traffic in the tables is 3nm. When an airborne AI lands it should be moved to the ground table, but not if that position is more than 3nm away. Bypassing the entry into the other table also bypasses removal from the airborne table until it times out.

I'll fix it in the next incremental update.

Regards
Pete
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#8 netshadoe

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Posted 18 January 2011 - 09:31 PM

You said "it seems to happen only when I am on the ground over 3nm away". If this is indeed the case then it might explain why no one else has seen it or reported it, including me. Being on the ground at a distance from another airport does seem to be an unusual place to worry about traffic clouds at that airport, as presumably you aren't about to take such a sohrt hop over to it .... or are you?


It's a weird story on how I found out. I was sitting at KBFI getting ready for a flight when out of the blue, WHAM!, I'm taken out by an AI Aircraft falling out of the sky. Looking over to my FSCommander screen, I saw the cloud at KSEA. I had AISeparation and AISmooth working together, so I suspected them at first since they control traffic. They were not releasing the AI Aircraft to land because of the cloud and eventually the AI started dropping from the sky...interesting thing to watch!! :)

So closing both AI control programs, I still got the cloud, but the AI traffic stopped dropping from the sky. So I deduced that FSUIPC was not releasing the landing aircraft causing the traffic separation programs from releasing holding AI.

It was a purely accidental discovery!! :)

Okay, I can see what is happening.

The range for including ground traffic in the tables is 3nm. When an airborne AI lands it should be moved to the ground table, but not if that position is more than 3nm away. Bypassing the entry into the other table also bypasses removal from the airborne table until it times out.

I'll fix it in the next incremental update.


That's great Pete! At least I know I'm not nuts!! (Or maybe I am!! :) )

Thanks for all your help and patience!

Devin
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#9 Pete Dowson

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 02:24 PM

I'll fix it in the next incremental update.


Done in FSUIPC 4.654, now available in the Download Links subforum.

Pete
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#10 netshadoe

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Posted 19 January 2011 - 07:31 PM

You are the man Pete! Thanks much for all your help and contributions!!

Devin
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