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fs2004, learjet 45, landing, spoilers, speeds


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#1 floody

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Posted 16 August 2003 - 05:03 AM

I am having quite a difficult time landing the learjet 45 in fs2k4. Specifically, I can't get speeds below about 165 kias, with thrust levers completely at minimum, FULL flaps, gear down and spoiler fully extended. Even in this configuration, I still climb (very slightly) at 165 kias. As I understand it, I should be landing at about 120 kias, but i can't figure out how to go this slow without being in a climb.

Speaking of spoilers, isn't the appropriate procedure supposed to be to (1) arm on approach, and (2) fully extend immediately after wheels-down?

If this is the case, I can't figure out how to get below 180-190 kias w/out spoilers extended. I would think that with the thrust set *below* idle, and flaps extended, the aircraft would be able to slow down to stall-speed at straight-and-level attitude, however I sure can't make it stall (realism turned all the way up).

Anyone have any tips on landing the learjet?
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#2 gMatt

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Posted 16 August 2003 - 05:58 AM

make sure your weight before landing is low, might want to jetison some of that fuel, also, unlike 98, i have notice a little ground effect with this sim, so might be a cause of that too, but mainly the weight issue is what will keep it going, inertia.
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#3 floody

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Posted 16 August 2003 - 10:32 AM

Was I correct w.r.t. spoilers? Is the correct procedure to fully extend upon wheels-down?
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#4 gMatt

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Posted 16 August 2003 - 05:47 PM

ok, let me give an example of my 737 approach. about 12 miles out, anytime under fl180 or 18,000 ft. you will have to reduce speed to 250, standard, but fs2k4 doesn't regulate this, so do what you must, but if you end up flying on the vatsim network, they will ask you to follow this rule, being they are trying to simulate real world atc too. so, when i am at least that point, i want to have at least 15* of flaps, and speed down to 200kias at least. then i get the gear down while on final, though a lot of them do a ways before, this is my procedure, then reduce flaps to full after reducing speed down to 150kts. then arm spoilers by pushing shift and /. and turn autobrake on 1 or 2. so, if you follow these steps, should reach good speed for landing, the lear jet, 150kts might be too high, might be a lot less or a little, read the check list ;) b/c i really don't fly the lear, and haven't done yet :)
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#5 psykie

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Posted 16 August 2003 - 06:47 PM

Hey Floody, my name is Matthew and I only fly the Lear in flight sim. So far I haven't had any problems with landing although the closest I had to experiencing your problem was when I had no weight, and almost out of fuel. The Lear wanted to stay airborn

1. Make sure you have a some (little) weight and fuel (fuel adds weight)

2. Try using your autopilot to bring your Lear down to minimum speeds.

3. Or make usre your autopilot (speed) in disengaged, I did that once and couldn't figure out why I kept my speed above 180 kts and had a hell of a time landing.

4. Also, bring your nose back to slow down and use your throttles to increase altitude. This works best when at landing configuration.

I hope this helps. Let me know.

I LOVE flying the Lear, its the only plane I fly. I downloaded John Wayne Airport from Avsim (since I live in Orange County California) and park my lear in one of the hangers. I use KSNA as my home airport and fly all over the country and world. I also will download "Ultimate Traffic" and "Weather Center" and the new FSSE once its updated for -04.

I hope that helped. Llet me know how it goes with the Lear.

Matthew
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#6 floody

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Posted 17 August 2003 - 05:47 AM

Ok, I am doing much better now. Thanks to everyone who gave me input.

My problem was really just inexperience with flying more massive (and faster!) aircraft. I needed to give the lear enough time to slow down.

The reference/checklist doesn't give a stall speed, however the reference card does indicate approach speed of 120-100 kias (depending on weight). I've been putting the wheels on the tarmac at about 130, so I'll try a few more times, slowing it down.

I've also been fully extending the spoilers right after I pass the threshold, as this kills lift and pulls the nose up. I am still not sure on the exact procedure with regards to spoilers, I'll try again at slightly lower speed and see if I can wait until I get the nose down to extend the spoilers.
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#7 bjornhall

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Posted 17 August 2003 - 06:27 AM

Ok, I don't know the exact procedures regarding spoiler use in the Lear, but I have a hunch about their general use

In general, you'd arm the spoilers on final approach (typically as you extend the landing gear, or after the gear is down and locked, depending on airline and aircraft type ...). That would cause them to extend as you touch down, or as you lower the nose gear, provided your engines are at idle. The exact conditions for deployment differ between aircraft types, and I simply have no clue how the Lear works in that respect...

If you extend spoilers manually, you'd do it as soon as you touch down, typically before lowering the nose.

A simulator specific issue is that not all aircraft in the sim have a knock-down feature, which retracts spoilers if you apply more than idle forward thrust, and they don't all have an indication in the mail panel view telling you if the spoilers are extended or not. Add to that the fact that the auto-deploy function doesn't always work, and you could have an exciting time if you need to go around after touching down; how do you know if the spoilers are up or down? :shock: That can sure get interesting 8) For that reason alone, in simulator aircraft where I know the autospoiler functionality (both extention and retraction) is a bit suspect, I placard the autospoilers as out of service and deploy them manually.

Oh, and one thing you'd never, ever do (at least IRL, and if you want your aircraft to be reusable), is to extend spoilers at low altitude before touching downYou'd drop like a brick! :)

I hope some of this would apply to the Lear 45 as wellI think it would!

Best,
/Björn
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#8 JETTER

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Posted 17 August 2003 - 06:33 AM

The Lear is really my faverote as well and I find that I have to use the spoilers alot to bleed off speed on a decent because the Lear is a slippery beast and speed is hard to bleed off and you really can't get behind this airplane.
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#9 psykie

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 03:48 AM

Your right Jetter. The Lear is a slippery one. Although I crossed the threshold at about 117 KIAS (the slowest I had it at landing) at KSNA (John Wayne Airport in Orange County Cali) and made the smoothest landing while cutting my power and engaging spoilers just above touchdown. As soon as I touched down I engaged thrust reversers, pointed the nose down, and was able to exit halfway down the runway at the taxi exit. The runway is 5700 X 150. First time I did that!!!!

I think the trick is to bring the plane to the runway with the absolute slowest speed possible which is not easy. Like you I use the spoilers quite a bit.


Matthew
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#10 JETTER

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Posted 19 August 2003 - 04:00 PM

yup that's the trick, gotta bleed the speed!
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