23 replies to this topic

[Kosta]

As described in the manual, the functions will always call for center-forward, a middle reset.

I don't understand the reason for that, but is it possible to have the FSX-like behaviour? It quite bothers me that each time I press space it centers...

I set it up so that when I hold the space, it is activated, as soon as I depress it, it deactivates.

[Pete Dowson]

Kosta, on 21 February 2012 - 10:55 PM, said:

As described in the manual, the functions will always call for center-forward, a middle reset.
I don't understand the reason for that, but is it possible to have the FSX-like behaviour? It quite bothers me that each time I press space it centers...

It only centres when first activated. The space bar assignment isn't good anyway as is sends a repeated toggle when held. I set a button assigned to "Mouse Look Toggle". When toggled on you can look as you like, toggling off is a separate action when your done, and doesn't re-centre.

You can also assign the the mouse look toggle with a parameter of 1, which turns it into a "mouse look on" , and separately to mouse look toggle with a parameter of 2 (or any other non-zero value (not 1) to turn it off.

I implemented it with the centering when starting it (turning it on) because the fact that it was so difficult to get back to a consistent known "normal" view always annoyed me in the FSX implementation. I thought I was providing an improved version. Why don't you like it? Yours is the first adverse comment since it was implemented some six months or more ago.

Regards
Pete

[Kosta]

Yes, it only centers when first activated, but isn't the "first activation" every time your press mouse toggle param 1? Or is it supposed to center only once per session?

My setup is simple:
Mouse Look Toggle, with "no repeats" checked, on both when key pressed and when key released. So that means when holding space, I get to move.

Now, again, let me try describing it again:
- press space, move the mouse to the left, aircraft pans
- release space, aircraft is kept in the panned position
- leave the mouse left, where it was, press space again - aircraft pans back to the middle, together with the mouse - mouse is still on the left position on the mousepad

Now, this is annoying for two reasons:
- each time my aircraft pans to the middle - sounds change, and it's looks like an instant bug
- also I'm required to pick up and recenter my mouse on the mousepad - and that each time I have been using space and turning

Why did it annoy it in the FSX implementation? In FSX it just restores the old position...

Maybe mine is the first, as I tried it just yesterday, but maybe not many are using it and still using FSX version.

Best
Kosta

[Pete Dowson]

Kosta, on 22 February 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Yes, it only centers when first activated, but isn't the "first activation" every time your press mouse toggle param 1? Or is it supposed to center only once per session?

It would centre (i.e. "start from a known position") each time you engaged a fresh "mouse look" action.

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Mouse Look Toggle, with "no repeats" checked, on both when key pressed and when key released. So that means when holding space, I get to move.

How do you stop a keyboard key from repeating? I can understand with a joystick button, but not a keypress.

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Now, again, let me try describing it again:
- press space, move the mouse to the left, aircraft pans
- release space, aircraft is kept in the panned position
- leave the mouse left, where it was, press space again - aircraft pans back to the middle,

Yes, exactly right, except I think it doesn't "pan", just resets.

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together with the mouse - mouse is still on the left position on the mousepad

Mousepad? Hmm. Not used one in years! . They've not been needed since mice went optical. Used to be essential with mouse balls.

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Now, this is annoying for two reasons:
- each time my aircraft pans to the middle - sounds change, and it's looks like an instant bug

It just restores to a known position so you can do a mouse look knowing where you are going. That's the whole point. Maybe you are 100% familiar with your cockpit and know immediately where you are looking all the time, but I find it far easier to get to look at a specific switch or dial if I start from the normal flight view. Furthermore, when flying it is quite often necessary to quickly look back ahead after making some adjustment elsewhere, so a fast way of getting the normal view and perspective is essential. I don't understand how you'd manage so well without that asction.

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Why did it annoy it in the FSX implementation?

See above.

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In FSX it just restores the old position...

Retores? Restores from what?

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Maybe mine is the first, as I tried it just yesterday, but maybe not many are using it and still using FSX version.

I'll look to see if I can add an INI option especially for you. Probably not for a few days though. I'm in the middle of a bigger problem.

Regards
Pete

[Pete Dowson]

Pete Dowson, on 22 February 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

I'll look to see if I can add an INI option especially for you.

I've a feeling that it's going to need a complete new facility to do it the way you want. One not using the FS "mouse look" control at all.

Looking at the code I see the original reason why I made it reset to view on each mouse look operation.. Even if you disable the FSX mouse look (i.e. by disabling controllers), the control still starts by positioning the cross-hair cursor -- it puts it in the last place you left it and moves the view there. This is presumably the way you want it to work in FSUIPC.

My code does not in fact even need to move the cursor and view to the reset default position (the "eyepoint"). Even if I remove that code, this action is still being done by FS as soon as it sees the Mouse Look control, and before I am able to then watch the mouse move. And, of course, because you aren't using FSX's mouse look, its remembered position remains at that default position.

What I'd need to do to make it work the way you want it is either to try to hook the mouse look control BEFORE FSX sees it, or use a different FSUIPC-added control altogether. The latter might be better (as well as easier to implement), because then you can have it either way by just assigning differently.

Either way I'd have to keep my own memory of where the last panned position was so I can restore it. That's the easy part.

Regards
Pete

[Kosta]

Exactly.

That's exactly what it's doing.

I don't know how complicated this is to make. Right now, turning off FSX controllers is just a fancy thing, if I enabled it, I have no sideeffects. But it might come in handy some day (for instance, setup of Thrustmaster Warthog requires controllers disabled, or so I read on one thread) so maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to have that functionality.

[cavaricooper]

I'm looking for a way to have the center mouse wheel (button also by pressing) control mouse look.  I would like it to activate when pressed, and deactivate when released- as modeled in EZCA.  Will gp back to manual reading but am hoping for a quick fix

C

PS- read the bit about where the mouse look functions like the space bar push in FSX.  My issue is that I have run out of buttons on the left yoke handle (PFC) and would like to map THE CENTER MOUSE WHEEL BUTTON to turn on mouse look- either by FSUIPC or by generating a keystroke (space).  The mouse button is NOT read by FSUIPC at the moment.....afaik.....
can this be done?

Ta!

[Pete Dowson]

Kosta, on 22 February 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

I don't know how complicated this is to make.

I've left the current mouse Look in FSUIPC4 as it is. for the functionality you want you'll have three new FSUIPC-added controls in the drop-downs:

mouselook on
mouselook off
mouselook toggle

They operate entirely independently of the FSX mouselook and so can keep track of the view position. You'd need to assign the space bar (or whatever) in FSUIPC to press=mouselook on, release=mouselook off, no repeats (though they shouldn't matter as they'd only repeat the "on" to no effect).

This will be in the next FSUIPC4 incremental release, maybe over the weekend or else early next week.

[LATER]

Released, including middle button hold operation, today, Monday 27th Feb. FSUIPC 4.802, in the Download Links subforum.

Regards
Pete

[Pete Dowson]

cavaricooper, on 22 February 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

I'm looking for a way to have the center mouse wheel (button also by pressing) control mouse look.  I would like it to activate when pressed, and deactivate when released- as modeled in EZCA.  Will gp back to manual reading but am hoping for a quick fix

If you use EZCA, why do you need this? And what needs a quck fix?

Either way, it seems there's now a flood of mouse requests. That's a non-centering option, a complete Mouse API in Lua and now a different way of enabling mouse look. All in one day. I think I should hold off on any changes until the flood of mouse requests has dried up and then try and sort them out in one great effort.

Sorry, Kosta. Doesn't look like next week after all.

Pete

[Kosta]

Pete, don't sweat it. It's not life-threatening!

I'll be looking out for the interim whenever it comes. Thank you.

[cavaricooper]

Pete-

I've binned EZCA for the moment- keep getting some conflict I do not seem to be able to remove.  It starts shuddering and the only resort is a complete FSX shudown.  I'm hoping this goes away with 2.0 when it comes out. For the moment I've gone back to mouse look and it's workable but I need to be able to activate it without using a control button- limited with my PFC console............I'd love to be able to consolidate it into just the mouse by pressing the center wheel button to activate rather than the space bar.

Is there any way FSUIPC can "see" the center mouse button- that would solve my issue...................strangely enough FSX "sees" it in the control assignments- but it will not work- even though the command is "written" in the FSX control menu.

Ta!

C

[Pete Dowson]

cavaricooper, on 22 February 2012 - 08:30 PM, said:

Is there any way FSUIPC can "see" the center mouse button

Yes, of course, if i program it to do so. Please refer to my previous reply. It seems there's a growing list of Mouse users requesting mouse facilities. i'll put them altogether and implement somerthing when i get time to do so.

Regards
Pete

[cavaricooper]

Excellent....much appreciated!  Thanks mate!

C

[Pete Dowson]

The latest FSUIPC update, 4.802, provides a revised mouse look facility which operates without a reset and using the centre mouse button.

It also provides a new Lua library with mouse movement and button clicking facilities.

Regards
Pete

[Kosta]

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the effort! What do I need to do to have the space as a button to activate mouselook so that it doesn't re-center each time?

I did read the manual, it states:
"You can assign the space bar press to 'mouselook on' and release to 'mouselook off', with no repeats, to do the job well." - now, I did that, disabled controllers in FSX and also enabled mouse look in miscellaneous in the FSUIPC.

I have noticed you are talking about the cockpit views. I was talking about the external view all the time. The external is still re-centering, also with the above setting.

Cockpit is fully controlled by EZCA. Also if I close EZCA, I can use FSUIPC to look around and in the cockpit, it also recenters each time.

And if I turn off Mouse Look in MISC, then it doesn't work at all.

[Pete Dowson]

Kosta, on 27 February 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Thanks for the effort! What do I need to do to have the space as a button to activate mouselook so that it doesn't re-center each time?

Use the new FSUIPC mouselook controls, NOT the FS "Toggle mouse Look". There's no way i can stop the latter from returning to its previous position -- which is the way you liked it excet in this case it cannot remember its previous position because it isn't doing the moving.

You don't need to use the space bar in any case, you can press and hold the middle button.

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I have noticed you are talking about the cockpit views. I was talking about the external view all the time.

Is there any difference for view panning? I've only implemented panning.

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The external is still re-centering, also with the above setting.

Something you are doing is sending the FSX control "toggle mouse look" then. Certainly nothing in FSUIPC re-centres mouse look (as it didn't before -- that was FSX),. It does of course move the mouse cursor -- back to the place you last left it in mouse look mode.

[LATER]
I just used it on the outside view, trying both space bar method and the middle mouse button (which needs no assignments). Both work perfectly as far as I can see. It makes me even more certain that you are either assigning the wrong control or you still have the FSX toggle control assigned as well.

Or maybe you aren't using FSUIPC 4.802?

Regards
Pete

[Kosta]

Pete Dowson, on 27 February 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Use the new FSUIPC mouselook controls, NOT the FS "Toggle mouse Look". There's no way i can stop the latter from returning to its previous position -- which is the way you liked it excet in this case it cannot remember its previous position because it isn't doing the moving.

I know. I have changed it. I understood that part.

Pete Dowson, on 27 February 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

You don't need to use the space bar in any case, you can press and hold the middle button.

I don't have or want to use the mouse middle button. My scroll wheel button is very very hard and very unpractical to use. I want to use the spacebar.

Pete Dowson, on 27 February 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Is there any difference for view panning? I've only implemented panning.

Not that I was aware of. In FSX, if it's working in the cockpit, it's also working in external, and vice versa.

Pete Dowson, on 27 February 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

Something you are doing is sending the FSX control "toggle mouse look" then. Certainly nothing in FSUIPC re-centres mouse look (as it didn't before -- that was FSX),. It does of course move the mouse cursor -- back to the place you last left it in mouse look mode.

If I disable controllers in FSX, if my Space in FSX controls is unassigned, what could be then interfering?

Pete Dowson, on 27 February 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

[LATER]
I just used it on the outside view, trying both space bar method and the middle mouse button (which needs no assignments). Both work perfectly as far as I can see. It makes me even more certain that you are either assigning the wrong control or you still have the FSX toggle control assigned as well.

Or maybe you aren't using FSUIPC 4.802?

OK, I tried really checking every corner:
FSX controllers disabled.
"Mouse - View Direction (on)" control in FSX unassigned
MISC Mouse Look checked.
On the Key Press page, Space assigned to Mouselook On when pressed, Mouselook Off when depressed, No repeats checked.
And yes, FSUIPC says 4.802.

And it centers.

What am I doing wrong?

EDIT:
Also noticed if I uncheck the Mouse Look in MISC, I get the cross on the screen when pressing space, but nothing is moving. Also the cross position is being saved, meaning after I press space at later point again, the cross is going from the last position where I released space.

[Pete Dowson]

Kosta, on 27 February 2012 - 04:15 PM, said:

What am I doing wrong?

Sorry, i don't know. there is no code in FSUIPc which does anything but place the mouse cursor back where you last left it. There's no centre computation, no code to do it.

In FSUIPC's logging page, turn on Event logging and Axis event looging, then try it and see what controls are being sent.

Pete

[Kosta]

See the edit above.

I'll try the logging.

[Kosta]

According to log, my space is sending MOUSE_LOOK_TOGGLE, although my Space is set to send Mouselook On and Mouselook Off.