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NEMA 3.01 & FSUIPC?

Ipad iphone garmin pilot foreflight

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#1 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:36 PM

Peter could you please add support for NEMA 3.01 to FSUIPC? There is one NEMA sentence that is missing from FSUIPC that will support Apple core location API that is needed to compute course , speed and heading correctly. The sentence that is missing is $GPRMC from NEMA 3.01. The reason I ask is that I have a cable that I am selling with FSUIPC to enable FSX users to use there Garmin Pilot or Foreflight Ipad application on there Ipad along with there geo referenced charts. Currently FSUIPC is sending the correct lat, long and altitude but not course, speed, heading. if you could add the $GPRMC then that will be corrected. Here is a video demo of garmin pilot with X-plane will post video with FSUIPC soon. Here is a link to the current NEMA specs. http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/#rmc

http://gpssimcable.com

Thank You



<a name="1384d577c3226ccd_rmc" style="color: rgb(17, 85, 204); background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: medium; ">$GPRMC

Recommended minimum specific GPS/Transit data
eg1. $GPRMC,081836,A,3751.65,S,14507.36,E,000.0,360.0,130998,011.3,E*62
eg2. $GPRMC,225446,A,4916.45,N,12311.12,W,000.5,054.7,191194,020.3,E*68


225446 Time of fix 22:54:46 UTC
A Navigation receiver warning A = OK, V = warning
4916.45,N Latitude 49 deg. 16.45 min North
12311.12,W Longitude 123 deg. 11.12 min West
000.5 Speed over ground, Knots
054.7 Course Made Good, True
191194 Date of fix 19 November 1994
020.3,E Magnetic variation 20.3 deg East
*68 mandatory checksum


eg3. $GPRMC,220516,A,5133.82,N,00042.24,W,173.8,231.8,130694,004.2,W*70
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12


1 220516 Time Stamp
2 A validity - A-ok, V-invalid
3 5133.82 current Latitude
4 N North/South
5 00042.24 current Longitude
6 W East/West
7 173.8 Speed in knots
8 231.8 True course
9 130694 Date Stamp
10 004.2 Variation
11 W East/West
12 *70 checksum


eg4. $GPRMC,hhmmss.ss,A,llll.ll,a,yyyyy.yy,a,x.x,x.x,ddmmyy,x.x,a*hh
1 = UTC of position fix
2 = Data status (V=navigation receiver warning)
3 = Latitude of fix
4 = N or S
5 = Longitude of fix
6 = E or W
7 = Speed over ground in knots
8 = Track made good in degrees True
9 = UT date
10 = Magnetic variation degrees (Easterly var. subtracts from true course)
11 = E or W
12 = Checksum
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#2 Pete Dowson

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:03 PM

Peter could you please add support for NEMA 3.01 to FSUIPC? There is one NEMA sentence that is missing from FSUIPC that will support Apple core location API that is needed to compute course , speed and heading correctly. The sentence that is missing is $GPRMC from NEMA 3.01.


I've no idea what "NEMA" is, but FSUIPC4's GPS facility already supports the NMEA RMC sentence, as does its predecessor GPSout.DLL.

Regards
Pete
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#3 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:48 PM

I've no idea what "NEMA" is, but FSUIPC4's GPS facility already supports the NMEA RMC sentence, as does its predecessor GPSout.DLL. Regards Pete


Please excuse my miss spelling of NMEA. FSUIPC4 does not support $GPRMC as it relates to NMEA version 3.01 sentence in NMEA as stated in my last post. In version NMEA 3.01 they added additional information that FSUIPC4 does not support. All I am asking that you look of adding this extra information in the NMEA sentence so that the Apple core location API can translate the heading and course information properly. As you can see the specs below added additional data to the $GPRMC sentence since NMEA version 1.5 and 2.0 I can send you a cable to test out if you wish with your Ipad or iphone so you can get a better understanding of what I am trying to tell you.

Recommended minimum specific GPS/Transit data
eg1. $GPRMC,081836,A,3751.65,S,14507.36,E,000.0,360.0,130998,011.3,E*62
eg2. $GPRMC,225446,A,4916.45,N,12311.12,W,000.5,054.7,191194,020.3,E*68


225446 Time of fix 22:54:46 UTC
A Navigation receiver warning A = OK, V = warning
4916.45,N Latitude 49 deg. 16.45 min North
12311.12,W Longitude 123 deg. 11.12 min West
000.5 Speed over ground, Knots
054.7 Course Made Good, True
191194 Date of fix 19 November 1994
020.3,E Magnetic variation 20.3 deg East
*68 mandatory checksum
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#4 Pete Dowson

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:39 PM

All I am asking that you look of adding this extra information in the NMEA sentence


Ah, you should have said. Sorry, I do not memorise all of this data and would not recognise if fields were different. The GPS facilities in FSUIPC4 and GPSout date back at least 10 years.

As you can see the specs below added additional data to the $GPRMC sentence since NMEA version 1.5 and 2.0


No, I can't see that without bringing up the older spec to compare it with. Which fields are added? Hopefully these are at the end? What happens to older programs or devices which don't know about these? I use the GPS facilities with Jeppesen FliteMap and it is still working well with the RMC I send.

I can send you a cable to test out if you wish with your Ipad or iphone so you can get a better understanding of what I am trying to tell you.


Yes, please, I'd like such a cable. But what iPad program do I need and why is it not backward compatible?

Pete
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#5 Pete Dowson

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:50 PM

Recommended minimum specific GPS/Transit data
eg1. $GPRMC,081836,A,3751.65,S,14507.36,E,000.0,360.0,130998,011.3,E*62
eg2. $GPRMC,225446,A,4916.45,N,12311.12,W,000.5,054.7,191194,020.3,E*68

225446 Time of fix 22:54:46 UTC
A Navigation receiver warning A = OK, V = warning
4916.45,N Latitude 49 deg. 16.45 min North
12311.12,W Longitude 123 deg. 11.12 min West
000.5 Speed over ground, Knots
054.7 Course Made Good, True
191194 Date of fix 19 November 1994
020.3,E Magnetic variation 20.3 deg East
*68 mandatory checksum


I just checked. FSUIPC4 does provide all of this. What do you think is missing? The last copy of the NMEA specs i used was 3.0. Not sure what's different in 3.01.

Pete
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#6 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:11 PM

eg3 is Version 3 Can you confirm that this is what FSUIPC4 is sending. Thank you


eg3. $GPRMC,220516,A,5133.82,N,00042.24,W,173.8,231.8,130694,004.2,W*70
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12


1 220516 Time Stamp
2 A validity - A-ok, V-invalid
3 5133.82 current Latitude
4 N North/South
5 00042.24 current Longitude
6 W East/West
7 173.8 Speed in knots
8 231.8 True course
9 130694 Date Stamp
10 004.2 Variation
11 W East/West
12 *70 checksum

this is version 4

eg4. $GPRMC,hhmmss.ss,A,llll.ll,a,yyyyy.yy,a,x.x,x.x,ddmmyy,x.x,a*hh
1 = UTC of position fix
2 = Data status (V=navigation receiver warning)
3 = Latitude of fix
4 = N or S
5 = Longitude of fix
6 = E or W
7 = Speed over ground in knots
8 = Track made good in degrees True
9 = UT date
10 = Magnetic variation degrees (Easterly var. subtracts from true course)
11 = E or W
12 = Checksum

Edited by Ace01, 03 July 2012 - 07:11 PM.

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#7 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:17 PM

this link will show you version 1,2,3,4 http://aprs.gids.nl/nmea/#rmc if you can go to http://gpssimcable.com/contact/ and please tell me were to send the cable. Please confirm version 3 and 4 I would like to test the fix as soon as possible to confirm that it works. What data is missing is course, heading, speed. This will confirm that it is sending data properly to the Apple Core location API. This cable will work with any location aware applications and over rides the internal GPS on the IPAD. Also the sentence must be formatted with the spec above. Thank you greatly.
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#8 Pete Dowson

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:28 PM

eg3 is Version 3 Can you confirm that this is what FSUIPC4 is sending..



Yes, I see no difference. There's an option for 4 or 6 digit Lat/Lon values.

Why did you think there was any difference?

And what is the difference between:

1 220516 Time Stamp
2 A validity - A-ok, V-invalid
3 5133.82 current Latitude
4 N North/South
5 00042.24 current Longitude
6 W East/West
7 173.8 Speed in knots
8 231.8 True course
9 130694 Date Stamp
10 004.2 Variation
11 W East/West
12 *70 checksum

and:

1 = UTC of position fix
2 = Data status (V=navigation receiver warning)
3 = Latitude of fix
4 = N or S
5 = Longitude of fix
6 = E or W
7 = Speed over ground in knots
8 = Track made good in degrees True
9 = UT date
10 = Magnetic variation degrees (Easterly var. subtracts from true course)
11 = E or W
12 = Checksum

Are you seeing something I'm not?

Pete
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#9 Pete Dowson

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

Please confirm version 3 and 4 I would like to test the fix as soon as possible to confirm that it works.


Sorry, you've lost me. What fix? What 3 and 4 difference?

What data is missing is course, heading, speed.


Not here, it isn't missing. How are you working this out? The RMC message always had these things in it as far as I'm aware, at least for the 12 years I've been doing this.

Can you please explain where all this evident confusion arises?

Pete
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#10 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:42 PM


Pete so the sentence is formatted like this?



$--RMC,hhmmss.ss,A,llll.ll,a,yyyyy.yy,a,x.x,x.x,xxxxxx,x.x,a,a*hh<CR><LF>



hhmmss.ss = UTC of position fix
A = Status (A = data valid; V = warning)
llll.ll = Latitude
a = N/S
yyyyy.yy = Longitude
a = E/W
x.x = Speed over ground, knots
x.x = Course over ground, degrees true
xxxxxx = Date ddmmyy
x.x = Magnetic variation (degrees)
a = E/W
a = Mode

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#11 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:47 PM


Apparently that sentence changed in some respect between the 2.1 and 3.01 versions of the NMEA spec. I do not know the exact differences.

Apple only uses the GPGGA and GPRMC sentences, All I know there is a slight difference between the specs and if the sentence is not formatted correctly the Apple Location API will not read the data.

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#12 Pete Dowson

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:51 PM

Pete so the sentence is formatted like this?
$--RMC,hhmmss.ss,A,llll.ll,a,yyyyy.yy,a,x.x,x.x,xxxxxx,x.x,a,a*hh<CR><LF>


I thought i'd answered this twice already?

Yes,, except that your latitude and longitudes are wrong. they are either

xxxx.xxxx and yyyyy.yyyy

or, by more recent more accurate standards

xxxx.xxxxxx and yyyyy.yyyyyy

FSUIPC4 and GPSout both support both of these, by option.

Everything else you have is exactly how it has been for many years. I still don't understand why you came here with all of this in the first place. Can you explain why? Maybe Apple have made some error? Can oyu identify what is wrong?

BTW i've never seen any device which only gives 2 decimal places for the Lat/Lon values, so I doubt that this could be the problem.

Regards
Pete
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#13 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:30 PM

Well my intention was not to get you mad but to fix the issue with apple core location API and to increase further sales of FSUIPC were else can I go to take this? I can send you a cable and communicate with you off this forum?
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#14 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 08:57 PM

Here is the error I get on on course and heading from the Apple core location API

Attached Files


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#15 Pete Dowson

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:23 PM

Well my intention was not to get you mad but to fix the issue with apple core location API and to increase further sales of FSUIPC were else can I go to take this? I can send you a cable and communicate with you off this forum?


What makes you think I'm mad? You keep asking if the RMC format is the one i use and i say yes. I don't understand what i can do for you if i don't know what you want different.

The picture of the error you get doesn't help I'm afraid. I don't know what the Apple device is seeing or what it doesn't like. How can I? Even with a cable how could I work it out? I do not program Apple devices. I have no way of finding out.

I've just linked FSUIPC4 via WideFS with GPSout enabled to WideFS, and logged what is received with RMC sentences enabled. Here's a typical line:

$GPRMC,210740.00,A,5323.4026,N,00211.9986,W,40.0,50.9,040712,2.8,W*51

The course and speed check. What more can I do? Tell me.

Regards
Pete
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#16 Ace01

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 09:57 PM

Pete I will research further to find out what the issue might be and get back to you. Thank you for your help.
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#17 Ace01

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:37 AM

This is the test I ran with NMEAtalker http://www.sailsoft.nl/NemaTalker.htm and confirmed that the Apple Core location API passed the information for heading and course to the location aware applications on the iPad by adding the letter S in the $GPRMC sentence. These are the definition's for the different modes. Can you add this letter S to the $GPRMC sentence and let me beta test for proper operation?


Positioning system Mode Indicator:
A = Autonomous mode
D = Differential mode
E = Estimated (dead reckoning) mode
M = Manual input mode
S = Simulator mode
N = Data not valid


$GPRMC,210740.00,A,5323.4026,N,00211.9986,W,40.0,50.9,040712,2.8,W,S*51

This is the test I ran with NMEAtalker http://www.sailsoft.nl/NemaTalker.htm and confirmed that the Apple Core location API passed the information for heading and course to the location aware applications on the iPad .



NMEA Version 3.01 test with NMEA talker

GPS: $GPGGA,001620.61,3509.21005,S,08137.48221,W,1,12,0.0,2000,M,50.0,M,,*42
GPS: $GPRMC,001623.32,V,3509.21079,S,08137.47823,W,0005.0,103.0,030712,000.0,W,S*1F
GPS: $GPGGA,001623.32,3509.21079,S,08137.47823,W,1,12,0.0,2000,M,50.0,M,,*4B
GPS: $GPRMC,001625.03,V,3509.21153,S,08137.47425,W,0005.0,103.0,030712,000.0,W,S*18
GPS: $GPGGA,001625.04,3509.21153,S,08137.47425,W,1,12,0.0,2000,M,50.0,M,,*4B
GPS: $GPRMC,001627.75,V,3509.21227,S,08137.47027,W,0005.0,103.0,030712,000.0,W,S*1D
GPS: $GPGGA,001627.75,3509.21227,S,08137.47027,W,1,12,0.0,2000,M,50.0,M,,*49
GPS: $GPRMC,001631.46,V,3509.21338,S,08137.46430,W,0005.0,103.0,030712,000.0,W,S*16
GPS: $GPGGA,001631.46,3509.21338,S,08137.46430,W,1,12,0.0,2000,M,50.0,M,,*42
GPS: $GPRMC,001633.17,V,3509.21412,S,08137.46032,W,0005.0,103.0,030712,000.0,W,S*19
GPS: $GPGGA,001633.18,3509.21412,S,08137.46032,W,1,12,0.0,2000,M,50.0,M,,*42
GPS: $GPRMC,001636.89,V,3509.21486,S,08137.45634,W,0005.0,103.0,030712,000.0,W,S*15
GPS: $GPGGA,001636.89,3509.21486,S,08137.45634,W,1,12,0.0,2000,M,50.0,M,,*41
GPS: $GPRMC,001638.60,V,3509.21560,S,08137.45236,W,0005.0,103.0,030712,000.0,W,S*13
GPS: $GPGGA,001638.61,3509.21560,S,08137.45236,W,1,12,0.0,2000,M,50.0,M,,*46




Further definitions of the Modes

In NMEA 2.3, several sentences (APB, BWC, BWR, GLL, RMA, RMB, RMC, VTG, WCV, and XTE) got a new last field carrying the signal integrity information needed by the FAA. (The values in the GGA mode field were extended to carry this information as well.) Here are the values:


FAA Mode Indicator A = Autonomous mode D = Differential Mode E = Estimated (dead-reckoning) mode M = Manual Input Mode S = Simulated Mode N = Data Not Valid


This field may be empty. In pre-2.3 versions it is omitted.

$--RMC,hhmmss.ss,A,llll.ll,a,yyyyy.yy,a,x.x,x.x,xxxxxx,x.x,a,a*hh<CR><LF>


hhmmss.ss = UTC of position fix
A = Status (A = data valid; V = warning)
llll.ll = Latitude
a = N/S
yyyyy.yy = Longitude
a = E/W
x.x = Speed over ground, knots
x.x = Course over ground, degrees true
xxxxxx = Date ddmmyy
x.x = Magnetic variation (degrees)
a = E/W

a = Mode


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#18 Ace01

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:48 AM

Here is the confirmation

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#19 Ace01

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 10:27 AM

Pete can you add the S to the $GPRMC,210740.00,A,5323.4026,N,00211.9986,W,40.0,50.9,040712,2.8,W,S*51 Sentence ?


This will help anyone that is writing any applications that access the core location API on Ipad, Iphone and Ipod.
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#20 Pete Dowson

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 11:35 AM

Pete can you add the S to the $GPRMC,210740.00,A,5323.4026,N,00211.9986,W,40.0,50.9,040712,2.8,W,S*51 Sentence ?


Yes but it will have to be an INI file option setting because I would be wary of upsetting all the other programs and devices it works with as it is.

Pete
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