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VenturaGuy101

Path Calculation Errors SP3.1d #FeelThere

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I am finding some issues with the path calculation with the latest SP3.1d.  It is faster but at more complex airport taxiway, it calculates a path out of order.

 

At KBOS:  JBU2369 located at gate: Term_C18 (near taxiway A and A1) and wanted to take off on runway 9.  It calculates convoluted winding paths and does not respect the order of taxiways given.

 First Command:  JBU2369 PUSHBACK APPROVED, EXPECT RUNWAY 9 TAXI VIA B K M

Path:  JBU2369 => Route is: Term_C18, A, K, B, E, M, M,   calculate time: 0.0234375s

Why did it pull K before B?

To get it off taxiway A I tried this command once it was ready to taxi: JBU2369 RUNWAY 9 TAXI VIA B E M

Path: JBU2369 => Route is: A, E, B, M, M,   calculate time: 0.04760742s

So once again the path does not repect first taxiway B before deciding to go all the way down to E before using B.  

I thought that I need to give path of every taxiway from A to runway 9 so I tried:  JBU2369 RUNWAY 9 TAXI VIA A F B E M

Path: JBU2369 => Route is: A, E, B, F, M, M,   calculate time: 0.09545898s

I gave A then F then B then E so why does the pathing calculation puts E and the next taxiway?

So tried first crossing taxiway: JBU2369 RUNWAY 9 TAXI VIA F B E M

Path:  JBU2369 => Route is: A, E, B, F, M, M,   calculate time: 0.1096191s

So once again why is it not using my order and put the first taxiway a F?  Why is the pathing prioritizing E?

image.thumb.png.c235189f4f6f30bdf083058b604b4ea0.png

 

I noticed similar issues at KLGA and KLAX.  I end up burning so much time trying to get one plane on the correct taxiway that everything gets stacked up.  I understand if I gave the command to taxi ECHO, BRAVO, FOXTROT, MIKE I should get the path above but I did not issue that command.  I know FeelThere is on vacation this week so I will probably bump this when Vic and crew return.  Anyone else running into this issue?

 

 

 

 

 

 

once again 

output_log.txt

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In an attempt to emulate the construction at LAX I built a scenario where 25R was closed and as a result I needed planes to be able to take off from 25L from the north complex and 24L from the south complex. As a result, I needed S to be the northern route and R to be the southern route. Unfortunately, getting a plane to take R was near impossible. Most attempts failed to calculate a route and when one did calculate it chose a very long and undesirable route. I've attached a screenshot and log file. 

DAL1140_25L_RBF.thumb.JPG.f9727dda963f53657811c2d14e8ca9ce.JPG   

Finally, I reverted back to 3.1 and got the route i desired on the first and only try. So, if 3.1 is the tortoise and 3.1d is the hare - give me the tortoise.

DAL1140_25L_31.thumb.JPG.da611addce0c0fd324595980ebaa0a8a.JPG

output_log_lax31d.txt

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i agree, was better before, when it was a little slower, at least it could creat a logical route then

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I do really like the faster calculations.  Seems to make a big difference on my machine, but I see these weird results too on occasion.  Hopefully, it won't be necessary to throw the baby out with the bathwater, and a little tweaking by FeelThere can resolve these issues without sacrificing the improved methodology.

 

Andrew

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I am curious guys- I have never tried to give specific taxi orders when giving pushback approval. I just tell them which runway to expect, then I let it calculate the route it wants to and modify from that point with another command if I need to do it; sometimes they are good enough w/o me changing them.

I have to mention that I have yet to play with the newest version and the updated taxi routines, alas work and life. But I have been following the forums regularly.

Thanks for all the troubleshooting and feedback to the devs guys, you're a big reason the game is as good as it is at this point.

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Hi Pdubya.  It will still calculate its own route just fine, as you have seen, but some players like the challenge/realism/added efficiency of giving custom routes, and this is where the problems in the new version appear.  You will give a specific route, and the plane will calculate it illogically, and go somewhere that you never intended.  You can imagine the havoc and frustration this might cause were it to happen in the real world.  Occasionally it actually does.  I have heard a few recordings out of KJFK, for example, where the controllers became quite curt, shall we say, so perhaps FeelThere was just trying to add in another dose of realism ;-)  

 

Best regards,

Andrew

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18 hours ago, Pdubya said:

I am curious guys- I have never tried to give specific taxi orders when giving pushback approval. I just tell them which runway to expect, then I let it calculate the route it wants to and modify from that point with another command if I need to do it; sometimes they are good enough w/o me changing them.

I have to mention that I have yet to play with the newest version and the updated taxi routines, alas work and life. But I have been following the forums regularly.

Thanks for all the troubleshooting and feedback to the devs guys, you're a big reason the game is as good as it is at this point.

With custom traffic files you really want the planes to follow your specific taxi orders, because my custom files are darn busy and i want to avoid traffic collisions while taxiing.
I do like the speedy calculation but if that means they don't obey my orders it isn't any good. At this moment a lot of airports are unplayable for me for this reason :(

Edited by MetaframeNL

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18 hours ago, Pdubya said:

I am curious guys- I have never tried to give specific taxi orders when giving pushback approval. I just tell them which runway to expect, then I let it calculate the route it wants to and modify from that point with another command if I need to do it; sometimes they are good enough w/o me changing them.

You can add some additional lines in the Tower3d.rec file that allows for taxi instructions at pushback.  It helps to get planes going in the right direction.  

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1 minute ago, VenturaGuy101 said:

You can add some additional lines in the Tower3d.rec file that allows for taxi instructions at pushback.  It helps to get planes going in the right direction.  

That is true, now getting the planes to taxi the right route to terminal is a whole different frustrating thing.

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Thanks for the replies guys. I think our old "friend" the delayed arrival gate mechanism is in play here as well (obviously on arrivals only). I have had more than a few collisions at JFK due to being busy and missing the fact that a recent arrival has taxied into a ramp area when I have just given another departure from the same ramp area seconds ago- having missed the delayed arrival gate assignment on the first plane. Doh!

Having said that, I have no idea of how difficult a programming/logic change it would cause to "move up" the arrival gate assignments in Tower 3D Pro. I imagine it isn't trivial.

Another situation I have had problems with is giving arrivals commands to vacate runways with consistent follow through. I'll give an example:

I like playing Philadelphia Intl and tend to run a 27R/26 arrival and 27L/35 departure configuration. It's fun! My problem always seems to be having the right timing on a 27R arrival that is usually going to touch down around E taxiway and getting it to go PAST the always busy C & M taxiway areas (departures for 27L) and take N or K4 onto K taxiway. I have had numerous collisions where the arrival a) acknowledges my vacate runway at N command and then... b) promptly ignores it and the blue highlight for exit location pops up on, you guessed it- Mike, for a well-timed nose-to-nose collision. *sigh*

Unfortunately I need to get a game played and have a proper log file for Vic and Co. the next time around so they have something to work from.

Wondering if you all have come across the same issues?

P.

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When do you give the vacate runway command?  I sometime noticed that giving the command too early caused that kind of issue but that was a few patches back when we were getting the "runway too short" issue.  I have not reported anything since as I hope that the current issue with the path calculation gets fixed first so I can do more complicated testing.  I have only been playing KPHL ans KSAN as the other airports are having real issues with complicated taxi instructions with wrong order or not calculation of routes at all.

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Hmm. Well, I definitely remember while playing PHL that it seemed trying to give the vacate command while on approach was rejected; so I was doing it right at or immediately after touchdown. It usually worked OK, but I still had a few times where it confirmed then ignored. Oh well, I really need to try the latest version out anyway.

Thanks VG, much appreciated. OH... what are your thoughts on taxi speed in the latest release?

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Dear Fellow Controllers,

Unfortunately this is a real issue with the road calculation. We are aware of that and this is our top priority at the moment. Please expect an SP asap.

 

Thank you

 

Vic

 

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