ahaka

Ok Pete, understood. I was only confused by whether you meant the "eliminate FLT loading difference" as a separate step from those you listed, but I get what you meant to say now. Get well soon.

Pete, What exactly do you mean by eliminating the FLT loading difference? How? Is the "0E90 as type U16 and 0E92 as type U16" that I should add the ones you meant with this or do you mean I should add the same wind to the startup flight as in the test flight? (Btw please note that in the test flight theres only cloud turbulence not wind turbulence) I will do the tests again but dont have time to do it tonight, I'll try to do it tomorrow though.

Oh, and just to add something, in the 4.284 log file, the problem starts almost immediately after loading the turbulence test flight. Both tests have severe turbulence, but in 4.26 it does not make the plane go to extreme banks beyond 30 degrees and the autopilot still has some control over the heading of the plane.

Pete, I've sent you new log files.

Pete, I have sent you the log file while the problem is occuring. Hope it helps.

Pete, Sorry for the late post, I was a bit busy early this week. I have tested with 4.284 now, and as much as I'd love to say its working fine, its not. Even in moderate turbulence the plane suddenly tips and banks steeply all the way to 90 degrees and comes crashing down. I checked and double checked that I have the right version installed. What on earth could it be... Its behaving just like before 4.26. 4.26 seems to be the only version that works perfectly.

Thank you very much Pete for investigating. From my memory I can tell that at least the version number shown in FSUIPC user interface was indeed 4.28. As you mentioned, I also remember a similar problem in verions before 4.26. I really have no idea what could have went wrong. At least when I installed I asked the setup to "just look for existing registration", but that shouldnt have anything to do with the installation process itself, right? I will try the version 4.282 then, when it becomes available and report back here. It will probably have to wait until tomorrow night though, but I will post here as soon as I have tested it.

That's all very well, but you'll be stuck on that version forever, despite any new facilities and fixes, unless we can sort out why 4.28 doesn't appear to work. And I am not going to support old versions, ever. Best to stick to the latest and temporarily turn off the cloud turbulence, as I said. Pete Well, I meant as a temporary solution ;) When the problem is solved, then of course will go permanently to the latest version.

Why not simply turn off cloud turbulence for the time being? Pete Or go back to 4.26. In my tests yesterday, this really seemed to work for me. I had no problems with that version.

Small update: I re-installed 4.26 and have been testing with the same scenario and so far I have not had any problems. Even in severe turbulence the plane keeps its course and does not bank more than 10 degrees. It starts to seem like there really was something in the 4.28 that, if not to others, but to me at least caused some strange behavior in the PMDG aircraft.

Okay. Thank you Pete.

Hmm. In that case it sounds like the wind smoothing isn't working either, then, because the only reason I added turbulence emulation was to generate turbulence to replace the smoothed out air which smoothing produced. Seems that somehow what you've got is the reverse of everything I strove for between Christmas and April, spending many hundreds of hours, to achieve something like success. I really can't understand what has happened -- nor why it seems to be only happening to you, and four weeks after the last FSUIPC change? weird. Pete Pete, I only changed to version 4.28 recently. I had other things to do so I missed the exact day it was released. I'm also puzzled and it seems like nothing is making sense. The wind smoothing IS working perfectly all the time no matter what is going on with the turbulence. I am sending you the files and the PMDG panel state (the panel state file needs to be copied to the PMDG panel state directory) of a situation where the cloud turbulence is causing that problem for me. I am praying you would have the same situation so you could see whats happening.

I can tell theres turbulence because the plane is still wobbling around just like in normal turbulence, and the airspeed is variating rapidly just like in turbulence, so I'm 100% sure there is turbulence. An update of the testing is that the "supress wind turbulence" did not remove this turbulence. Seems like the FSUIPC is not doing anything to the wind turbulenc. It just smooths the wind, but the turbulence is like its coming from FSX weather engine!

What I mean by that is when you SHIFT + Z key the FSX displays its wind values. In wind turbulence, the values were not changing, not even a bit, but in cloud turbulence both the speed and direction were shifting/varying. I guess thats the strange thing here. It seems that the wind turbulence does add turbulence, but doesnt variate the wind, making it possible to stay on course with the PMDG plane. Hoever, when the cloud turbulence does indeed variate the wind, the problems start.

What values did you try? I adjusted the Turbulence rate values. I tried lowering to 2.5,0.5 Did you try adding that parameter to the INI file as I suggested? Yes I have added that parameter. Regards Pete

Pete! I've discovered something while testing! First of all, I tried everything without ASX. Well, the problem persisted. Trying different scenarios, I found out that the severe banking and loss of control happens ONLY with CLOUD TURBULENCE. Checking the FSX wind values, in WIND TURBULENCE the actual wind values are not moving, just the indicate airspeed moves around and the airplane bounces a bit but stays of course. Well, with CLOUD TURBULENCE, the FSX wind starts shifting rapidly both in speed and direction, and no matter if its light to moderate or severe turbulence, at some point the airplane banks steeply to one direction and gets off course. Both wind and cloud turbulence was ENABLED from FSUIPC when I was testing this. Does this give you any ideas of what might be going on? Does the cloud and wind turbulence have different behavior written in FSUIPC code? Regards, Antti Haka

Hello Pete, Changing the turbulence rate values did not help. I guess all this is really due to ASX SP3 then. What a "nice" service pack... :? I'll try to change back to SP2 if possible and see if theres any change. If you have any other ideas though, let me know.

Pete, It does happen even in light to moderate turbulence. I'm using ASX with SP3, but it shouldnt override FSUIPC turbulence emulation right? I've also checked the wind values in turbulence and its going just like in 4.26, just that the plane is really banking like crazy. Even the autopilot wont do anything to it. In my INI file the supression is on since the last test I did was disabling all turbulence. I admit that this is a really strange problem, but I wish it can be solved since I cant really fly the PMDG plane (unless I disable all turbulence, but I would like it to work with turbulence on)

Hello, I've posted about this in PMDG support forum too here: http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=9015&page= It seems to be that after installing FSUIPC 4.28 the aircraft banks steeply to left or right, with or without autopilot, in turbulent conditions. I'm talking about more than 60 degrees bank here, and then the plane comes crashing down, or at least gets totally off course. So far it seems the worst banking has appeared in cloud turbulences, but some banking at least also happens in wind turbulence. Could it be that theres something new in 4.28 causing this as I dont recall having it with 4.26? could it be the vertical air added in 4.28? Disabling all turbulences in FSUIPC solves the problem, so at least it seems very clear that the cause for the unstable behavior of the plane is the turbulence emulations. Here's my FSUIPC4.INI file, in case there's any help from it: [General] CustomWeatherRewrite=No History=X7GAGJQJXY0EVGE5381M9 TCASid=Flight TCASrange=40 AxisCalibration=No DirectAxesToCalibs=No ShowMultilineWindow=Yes SuppressSingleline=No SuppressMultilineFS=No AxisIntercepts=No WeatherReadFactor=2 WeatherRewriteSeconds=1 SimConnectStallTime=1 MouseWheelTrim=No FixControlAccel=No VisibilityOptions=No OneCloudLayer=No CloudTurbulence=No CloudIcing=No GenerateCirrus=No SuppressCloudTurbulence=Yes MaxIce=-4 MinIce=-4 UpperWindGusts=No SuppressWindTurbulence=Yes SuppressWindVariance=No WindTurbulence=No TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0 TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40 SuppressAllGusts=No MaxSurfaceWind=0 WindLimitLevel=200 WindDiscardLevel=400 WindAjustAltitude=No WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000 WindSmoothing=Yes WindSmoothness=1 WindSmoothAirborneOnly=No PressureSmoothness=0 TemperatureSmoothness=0 DisconnTrimForAP=No ZeroElevForAPAlt=No ThrottleSyncAll=No WhiteMessages=No ShowPMcontrols=No SpoilerIncrement=512 MagicBattery=No RudderSpikeRemoval=No ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No AileronSpikeRemoval=No ReversedElevatorTrim=No ClockSync=No ClockSyncMins=5 ClearWeatherDynamics=No OwnWeatherChanges=Yes TimeForSelect=4 LoadFlightMenu=No LoadPlanMenu=No PauseAfterCrash=No ZapSound=firework ShortAircraftNameOk=No MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1 FixMachSpeedBug=No [WideServer] WideFSenabled=Yes [GPSout] Port= Speed=4800 Interval=1000 PosTo6Decimal=Yes Sentences= GPSoutEnabled=No [AutoSave] AutoSaveEnabled=No [JoystickCalibration] ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes SepRevsJetsOnly=No ApplyHeloTrim=No FlapsSetControl=0 FlapDetents=No ReverserControl=66292 Reverser1Control=66422 Reverser2Control=66425 Reverser3Control=66428 Reverser4Control=66431 MaxThrottleForReverser=256 AileronTrimControl=66731 RudderTrimControl=66732 CowlFlaps1Control=66162 CowlFlaps2Control=66163 CowlFlaps3Control=66164 CowlFlaps4Control=66165 SteeringTillerControl=0 MaxSteerSpeed=60 Aileron=-16383,0,0,16383 Elevator=-16383,0,0,16383 Rudder=-16383,0,0,16383 Throttle=-16256,16256 LeftBrake=1203,7899 RightBrake=1203,7834

Odd. Sorry, there have been no other such reports, yet. I can only suggest reducing the 5.0 turbulent wind speed rate in the INI. Or suppressing turbulence altogether. Even those flying the originally sensitive PMDG 747X are now finding it okay. Regards Pete Pete, It seems to work ok now! I reinstalled FSUIPC 4.25 and then replace it with the 4.253 again. Strange. Anyway, the aircraft still banks in turbulence, but it seems to be only small bank instead of a big tip over. I believe this is normal FS behavior.

Those two statements sound totally contradictory. How is it "more stable" if you get such sudden banking all the time? I don't understand how you could report both at the same time. Maybe the wind speed factor is too high at 5.0 -- that is 5 times what it was in 4.251, so I would expect it to be worse, not better. Can you clarify -- is it turbulance tipping the aircraft, or something else? If it was with turbulence, try reducing the 5.0 value, the second in the TurbulenceRate= parameter. Pete Sorry if what I wrote was unclear. However, the overall stability is much better. In 4.25 it was hard to maintain direction in turbulence/gusts and sometimes the gusts would go up to 50kts even if the maximum set was something like 20. In 4.253 this does not happen anymore and it is possible to maintain direction even in turbulence without the aircraft getting too erratic. So it is overall much improved. The banking, well, it must relate to turbulence/gusts, since it didnt happen to me in 4.25 if I supress all turbulence/gusts. So it already happened in 4.25, and still happens in 4.253 with turbulence on. However I cant find any particular reason for this since the wind speed/direction seems to be under control now and doesnt fluctuate to enormous speeds/changes.

Tried with version 4.253 and the turbulence seems much more stable and better! Great job! However, on occasions my aircraft keeps suddenly banking left/right, and even if the ailerons and rudder are centered it stays in that bank. This does not sound like normal behavior does it? It happens in both Level-D 767 and PMDG 747X. I havent tested it on any other aircraft than these two.

Thank you for the answer Pete! It is indeed nice to know the wind features are being developed, and with true motivation and professionalism. I wonder what would happen to the FS world without these few top quality developers... Well ok, thats another subject already :)

Hello, First of all, good job so far with the wind smoothing Pete! There are however, as mentioned earlier, few remaining issues, and for me they do not just affect PMDG 747-400X, but also at least Level-D 767-300. At the current state I cant use the turbulence effect, since it makes the planes very unstable to fly as the wind speed jumps between different numbers at the speed of sound. :) However I was really pleased to read that Pete is developing a more realistic turbulence effect. Anyway, for me also the gusts are very unstable, and can suddenly jump to speeds above 60kts, even if the gusts in FSX weather are set to something like 20-30kts. I believe that FSUIPC wind smoothing totally overrides FSX wind "engine", so its not possible for FSX to handle the gusts/turbulence and FSUIPC to just do the smoothing without adding its additional gust/turbulence effects? I know I can disable these in FSUIPC, but it would be nice to fly with wind smoothing and still be able to at least have gusts, since they add a bit of fun to the flying. I'm using FSX with SP2 and only fly PMDG 747X and LDS 767-300. Regards, Antti Haka