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Bob Church

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  • Birthday 01/01/1970

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  1. Hi GhostRider, Is the Control Manager installed? If it is, is there any possibility that the pedals have been calibrated in Windows, or from within FS9 or FSX (FS seems to allow that under the 64-bit versions of Windows)? Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  2. Hi WebMaximus, Okay. Thanks for letting me know. Are you using Windows 8 or one of the earlier version. Windows 8 seems to be seeing a lot more of that, I was wondering if it was perhaps the reason. I tried in Windows 7 and they default to "Enabled", Windows 8 does too, but they may have adopted a more agressive power saving strategy with Win8 than was in Win7. Does it happen while you're flying, actually moving the controllers, or just if you let it sit without giving moving any axis at all? Anyway, thanks again for the feedback. I'm trying to see if I can pin it down and get a workaround, but it's a slippery problem. Every new data point helps. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  3. Hi WebMaximus, There's a setting in the Advanced Options for your Power Plan to enable/disable "Selective Suspend", which can be the cause of that. Have a look at this thread over at the CH Hangar: http://www.ch-hangar.com/forum/showthread.php?8694 It might be worth a try. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  4. Hi Randy, Since you said it would calibrate the CH controller from within FS, I'm assuming you're using the 64-bit version of Vista or Win7. That just sends you to the Windows calibration applet and if you calibrate the Quad from there, the calibration data interferes with the CMs ability to do much of anything. It should only be calibrated from the CH calibration applet. With the 32-bit versions of the OS, it popped the CM applet, but with the 64-bits they changed something and that doesn't work anymore. It applies to the CH Eclipse, too. You need to clear the calibration data for the quad completely to "0"s. You can do it from the Windows applet, start the calibration from within FS so you get the Windows applet, then proceed as if you were going to calibrate. Early on you'll get the option to "Reset Defaults" on the calibration data. Click that, it will clear the data, and then exit the Windows routine without calibrating as gracefully as possible. The other option is to clear all the calibration data. There's a utility on the Logitech WingmanTeam site: http://www.wingmanteam.com called "ClrCalib.exe". You need to disconnect all your controllers, run the utility and then plug things back in, and you'll need to recalibrate the non-CH stuff from Windows. Don't calibrate the quad from there, though. Open the GUI from the desktop and do it from there. I don't really know if that's all of your troubles, but it causes some very strange operation with the CH devices and it won't work until you do that. Hope this helps! Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com P.S. for Pete..... I'm playing with the data below HIDClass, DX gets the data from HIDClass of course and passes it along to FS. There's no reason that FSUIPC and the Control Manager would even be aware of each other, I'm just creating virtual sticks. The calibration problem is the only one I'm aware of, and that only in FS9/FSX and the 64-bit Versions of Vista and Win7. The main reason for using it in FS really is usually the calibration. It knows enough to center the rudder, set the value at the detents, that kind of thing too, but nothing I'm aware of in FSUIPC should be affected. - Bob
  5. Hi Vic, A couple of thoughts. Pete mentioned that it resets the default settings. You can control what the default settings are by editing them in the copy of standard.xml that's in your FS folder (not the smaller one that gets created as you make control assignments in FS. The "Generic" set only gets applied when there isn't a specific section in that file for a controller named as FS sees it. The file already has sections for the CH Yoke and Pedals. Those set the defaults for the named devices. You can add a section to that file for the Throttle Quad and the X52, too. Look at the sections that are there, you'll see quickly enough what they need to look like. Make sure to do the "SLEW" sections, too. That way, clicking "Reset Defaults" will restore the settings to whatever you like with no programming at all. All of the standard FS Control Names seem to be recognized, you'll notice that Gear Up and Gear Down are used on the defaults for the CH Yoke even though all you can get to through FS itself is Gear Toggle. The commands are still there, FSX just chooses no to make them available. That's true of about 700 commands. FSUIPC does make them available though so, one way or the other, you can activate them. Going back to your earlier post, you were talking about FSUIPC profiles and having buttons, axes, etc. which never change. It seems to me that if you made the section for the TQ and X52, and modified the existing settings for the CH Yoke and Pedals, you could make the invariant assignments on the basis of controller type in the standard.xml file. A "Reset Defaults" in the FS assignments dialog would put everything back to normal as far as those went. If you then went to FSUIPC profiles, you could just make aircraft-specific assignments there. Clicking "Reset Defaults" would reset all the other "default" button and switch settings per the standard.xml file, and since your not going to program in FS but in FSUIPC, there'd be no reason for them to ever change except that you could override them with FSUIPC and they'd end up in the profile, which would really give you the best of both worlds. If it matters, except for where you go to calibrate it wouldn't matter whether you were running it over the standard Windows drivers or the CM drivers. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  6. Hi Pete, >> Thanks for all that valuable info. I should of course remember to refer folks to the CH-Hangar for CH info, or is the StickWorks site the better place now? << You're quite welcome, Pete! I hope it's useful. The Hangar is probably the better place. I don't have anything at the StickWorks set up that keeps the data out in the open and searchable. Good to talk to you again, I hope things have been going well for you! Take care... - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  7. Hi Pete, The toe brakes are on the X and Y axes, which Windows assumes are centering. The Windows calibration routine asks you to center the controller and click the button. If they're calibrated without some room to the back, I'm sure you can see what will happen. You end up with a centered joystick with both Center and Max (released) returning the released value. There's not enough behind center to allow them to turn off. If you prop the back end of the pedals up for the center clicks so they're about halfway down, it helps quite a bit. Another way that's worked is to simply not calibrate at all. The CH pedals declare a raw range via the USB descriptors of 0..255. In the absence of Windows calibration, it will just assume that the values are the descriptor values, as soon as you lay Windows calibration on it then windows starts to use that with the equal Max/Center values. Windows doesn't calibrate center for the pedals, either. The CH Pedals almost always (I can't remember a set that didn't) cover the full 0..255 without calibration. Since it takes the values from the descriptors when Windows isn't in the act, that's just what you want, they set 0..128..255. So, in my experience and in some tests I ran awhile back withe the fellow that does California Classics, just using the "Reset Defaults" button in the Windows applet to clear the calibration worked will. The Null Zone sliders fully left, the Sensitivity sliders fully right in FS. That produces maximum Null Zone, which seems backwards but I think it's a result of reversing the axis in the FS dialog. On the ones I've tested, you have to go almost a third of the way down until any brake light comes on. You can slide it to the right and it will move the activation point closer to the top. Windows won't calibrate center rudder anyway, with FSUIPC you can bring it into line since pots are perfectly linear. Generally more linear than Halls, but probably 10% or so the way they're set up. To the degree that taking 128 as center from the USB descriptor is off a little, it's an easy deal to fix with FSUIPC. It causes a lot of trouble, and propping the back of the pedals up even 1/4" - 1/2" is usually enough to calibrate and leave enough "behind center" that the brake lights go out. Also a good idea to look at the "Reversed" box after you're done and make sure it's still checked. Sometimes playing with the Sensitivity seems ot flip it. So, FWIW. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  8. Hi Garyth, I got you're email to the sticky at stickworks dot com address okay, the address is good, but I replied from my regular email. Ol' sticky mostly gets spam these days and the account doesn't get checked too often. Anyway, I answered the email, I guess it got lost somewhere. Here's the text, less some info on getting you're login at the Hangar fixed.... >> I have a CH Yoke and am trying to program the three axis on top of the yoke with FSUIPC4. FSUIPC4 shows a 0 at the bottom of the range and then instantly goes to the max when you move the lever even just a little. Pete says that those three levers are defined incorrectly (probably in the registry) as digital levers instead of an analogue ones but he does not know how to fix it. Do you? << It's probably just normal. Most USB sticks and the Control Manager devices only send a report when the data changes. The CH stuff is pretty stable, especially when you're at one stop or the othere. Unless it bobbles by one count or more, no report gets sent. When you first start the controllers, it can seem to stick like that. Full back is maximum (255), full forward is minimum (0). You're full back (max) but FS initializes the value to zero and won't change it until it sends a report. That happens when you move the lever by about 0.4%. Since you're fully back, you're set to max, FS is initialized at min. The first report causes them synchronize and the throttle jumps to the other end of the scale when the value goes from 0 (FS initialized value) to 255 (throttle calibrated value). It seems odd that min throrttle is max value, but that's how gameport stuff worked and to change it is to break about half the sims out there. If that's not what's wrong, the next question is "Is the Control Manager" installed. It doesn't matter if you're actually using a map, just installing it is enough. If it is and you're using FS9 or FSX and Vista/64 or Win7/64, the allow you to calibrate from within FS. When you do that, it calibrates things through Windows, that sets registry values that stop the CM from being able to operate correctly. Easiest thing to do is go through the calibration from within FS, you'll get the option to "Clear Data" or something like that. click that, then exit without calibrating. Close FS and run the CM GUI from the desktop, calibrate it there. Also, try renaming FSUIPC. That just takes it out of the picture temporarily. See if that helps. I like Pete's calibration, but it is easy to go astray. It works fine with the CM installed, so there's no conflict, but you can calibrate yourself right out of the sky without much effort. Finally, you might take a look in the Windows Game Controller Settings (it's in Printers and Devices if you're using Vista or Win7. in the Control Manager otherwise. Watch the lever there. It shouldn't jump from one end to the other like that. The red bar should track. >> I want to program two of them in FSUIPC4 as gear and spoilers and have to define three areas in the throw of the lever to do that. Many thanks for any help you can provide. << You're quite welcome. Sorry for the mix-up in the emails, hopefully some of the above will help sort it out. Let me know how it goes! Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://wwww.stickworks.com
  9. Hi Carm, I'm not 100% sure, but it's worth a try and it seems to me I've run into it before. The first two axes are X and Y. Windows treats those as being "centering" as they would with a joystick or yoke, but they aren't of course. The other axes are treated as "non-centering". Windows calibration is probably telling you something like "move the stick in circles" for the calibration on the first two axes. Move both levers through their full range, but leave them pointing straight up. If you leave them at either end of travel, Windows is going to mark that as the center point, which would cut the range in about half. Any time it tells you to "center the stick" or "verify center" or whatever that calls for the stick to be centered, make sure the first two levers point straight up. See if that helps at all. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  10. Hi lluisdc. Are they just off-center they were mis-calibrated, or do they drift left over time, finally ending up at full let? If it's the former, center calibration in FSUIPC and maybe a little added deadzone would help. Windows calibration has never tried to calibrate center for anything but the X/Y axes and the pedal are the Z axis. If it's the drifting left problem, then it's a bit more trouble. The rudder pot probably has "push on" connectors going to the pot. Those get dirty over time and if they disconnect the pedals will exhibit the constant drift until they get minimum. If that's the case you need to open the pedals and tighten up the connections, solder them, or even just remove and reconned the connectors a couple of time to clean the contact. The only problem there is that taking the pedals apart isn't a lot of fun, and if they're less than two years old and you open them, You'll void the warranty. A couple of other things come to mind. If the pedals got a "Reset Defaults" somewhere along the line, the FS Sensitivity and Deadzone setting have probably changed. Find the Sensitivity/Null Zone screen and set Sensitivity slider all the way to the right and the Null Zone slider all the way to the left. Let FSUIPC take care of the calibration and deadzone. Windows will calibrate them as if they have no center and then just assume that the midpoint is halfway between the min and max, which is hardly ever true. You can check for jitter pretty easily. Start through a Windows calibration and check the box that says "Show Raw Data" that you'll come across. It should be producing numbers between 0 and 255 (more or less) for full pedal travel. See by how much the raw values bounces around. One count either was is the best you can get, it doesn't do fractions so if it should be producing something like 127.5, it will likely bounce continuously 128, 127, 128, 127, 128, 127.... in an effort to average out the 127.5. It's easiest to check the raw data, I'm not sure whether FSUIPC shows that anywhere, though. The larger values have already been scaled and it's harder to see because a 1 count change at the stick will produce a 256 count change at the user level. If it's much more than a count or two of raw data, then there's probably something wrong, but if you watch the scaled values they jump in relatively large amounts. The percentile change is the same though, so nothing is really lost. The most common problem sees to be noisy USB power. Try it on a motherboard port if it's on an external hub and see if that makes any difference. Also noisy power lines running in close proximity to the pedal cable and cause them to be erratic. The pots themselves have very little tendency to spike with the CH USB controllers. The circuit configuration is such that what used to cause spiking on gameports is essentially cancelled out. Good luck with it! Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  11. Hi Roberto, >> Thanks for sticking with this on a Sunday! << You're quite welcome! >> What I fail to understand (other than understanding that add-ons like PMDG and Level D are extremely complicated) is why the spoilers work absolutely fine with the default aircraft. I should have mentioned that in FS9, on the same computer, the spoilers worked OK with sophisticated add-ons like PMDG and Level D. << You'd think the "blame" would lie with the add-on manufacturer. FS, just because of the way it deals with axes and things, defines a "standard" that it expects from peripherals and the add-on should try to match that. But then what you changed going from FS9 to FSX is FS itself, and there are some differences in the input systems between the two versions, so "it's MS' fault". The input system did change over those versions. I think it's really hard to blame either side, it's just pretty much as it's been since I first ran FS back in the '80s. You take the sim, whatever tools you can get (FSUIPC, etc) and you fiddle with it until you find an acceptable solution. Or you find someone that knows how already. :) I'd guess it will be that way until MS forces us all to use XBox pads. I'd "blame" MS, they made the change in FS. The "standard" MS defined in FS9, if as you say it works there, isn't the same as the one in FSX. It's a moving target. Help from MS is unlikely. The add-on producer might help, but then he has to spend valuable programming resources making changes for existing customers when he would likely be happier doing something new. The TQ does nothing different (obviously). The add-on does nothing different (probably). About all that's left is the FS version, and MS is usually an acceptable "them" to blame anyway. :) WRT to the keys working, are you only looking for two positions or is the analog control a benefit. If there are keys that will activate it, you should be able to assign buttons and maybe move it back to the controllers, though the axes would be out unless FSUIPC allows axes to send characters now, or you wanted to install something like "AutoHotkey" and use that. The Control Manager could do it, too, but it's a lot of trouble for two buttons. It still wouldn't be analog though. If you get a chance to play around with the axis reversal, let me know what you find out! Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  12. Hi Roberto, >> I don't have the CH Manager installed, as I have been unable to understand its use - showing my age, my lack of computer savvy and being a great source of entertainment for my kids. << Okay. You don't really need it, and even if you install it, you don't need to use a map. It just fills in for one of the Windows drivers when the TQ is used (the other controllers still go through the normal Windows drivers), otherwise (without a map) it's essentially transparent. >> I did not download a specific driver for the CH Quadrant, as (with formerly FS9 and now FSX), Windows appeared to do a good job in determining what it needed to run the hardware. << Windows does fine, it just detects it as a standard "HID-compliant game controller". There's not much difference with the TQ except that there is very little change in the raw axis value between the detent and fully back. With the CM drivers in place, you can set it to produce a larger numeric difference between detent and fully back, which is usually where people run into instability, and you have to widen that gap to get analog reverse thrust with FSUIPC. I think you can probably get the same effect with FSUIPC itself when you calibrate center, though I've never really tried that. In any case your problem seems to be associated more with the fully forward position though so it wouldn't make a difference as it is. >> "Fully closed" spoilers (or fully down) is "fully forward" on the lever. I added the "arm" setting in FSUIPC, about 1/3 down from the "fully closed/forward" lever position. Just to try and describe it again, after the first movement of the spoiler lever (say fully back for "spoilers up"), and when the anomaly starts, I have to slowly move the lever back to find a random point, where the spoilers remain down. When that happens, the lever is close to the "fully forward" position, but at a random point. If I were to push the lever to the "full forward" position, the spoilers would close and after a very shor hesitation, raise fully again, without me moving the CH Quadrant lever. The lever on the FSX panel however, is moving as randomly as the spoilers on the wing (I guess it is commanding the random movements) << Would it make any sense to invert the axis so that "spoilers up" was at the fully forward position and "spoilers down" at fully back? Where you "move the lever back...close to the fully forward" position", that would invert and the position would be close to the back, you might calibrate it to align with the detent then and if the jump back to fully open is being caused because the axis was bobbling a count or two, and the addon, FS, or FSUIPC was responding to that, I'd think would just jump to fully closed which is where it is anyway. Just guessing, but that "arming" thing is probably a programmed sequence whose final action is to close the spoilers. It would expect the high raw data value (fully back) to produce full open (or closed) and the low data value (fully forward) to produce the full closed (or open) position. Maybe that final event is what's popping them open? Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  13. Hi Roberto, Okay, so maybe some progress. Do you have the CH Control Manager Drivers installed (it doesn't matter whether you're actually using a map or not) or are you using the standard Windows drivers? Also, when you talk about the "fully closed position" do you mean that the lever is pushed fully forward or pulled fully back? When you calibrated, were you trying to line the "middle" up with the detent near the fully-back lever position? Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  14. Hi stopnicki, It sounds like you've got conflicting assignments, two or more axes, each from different controllers, assigned to the spoilers. The CH TQ (if you're using the CH drivers) won't send a report until you move it, so it's out of the equation initially and whatever else might be assigned is in control. As soon as you move the TQ, it sends a report. After that it and the other axis or axes that are assigned to the spoilers will start fighting for control. FS will see an input from any controller that has been assigned and just takes the data that the last one sent, so if on of the axes bobbles by as little as one count in raw data, FS will accept that value. If the TQ then moves or just bobbles, FS moves to used it's value and it just goes back and forth. Open whatever you're using to assign the controllers to axes, FS or FSUIPC, and look at the axis assignments for all the controllers. Make sure that only one controller (the TQ presumably) is the only one with the spoilers assigned to it. Clear any others and see if things improve. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
  15. Hi Jahman, If you have the Control Manager drivers installed (doesn't matter whether you're using a map or not) and you're using the 64-bit version of either Vista or Win7, could you have, at some point, calibrated from within FS? Under Vista 64 and Win7 64, the in-sim calibration for FS9 and FSX will send you to the standard Windows Calibration Applet, and calibration there can result in some very strange results. The Windows calibration routines set registry bits, etc. that interfere with the proper operation of the CM drivers. If that might be the case, go into FS and start the calibration again. Early on, you'll be given an option to "Reset the Calibration Data" or something along those lines. Do that for all the CH Controllers, but don't actually calibrate. As soon as you've cleared the data, exit the calibration screen as gracefully as possible. Close FS, restart Windows, and run the CM GUI to calibrate them again. Another method that will clear the Windows calibration data is to drop by the Logitech Wingmanteam site: http://www.wingmanteam.com Pick up a freebie called "ClrCalib.exe". Unplug all the controllers and run the ClrCalib utility. When that's finished, plug the controllers back in and restart Windows. Open the CM GUI again, go to the calibration screen, and if any of your CH stuff isn't there click the little "Rescan" button in the lower left corner. Again, restart Windows after you clear the data but before you calibrate. This glitch only shows up on the 64-bit OS's, if you're using a 32-bit version then the above isn't really relevant. Best regards, - Bob The StickWorks http://www.stickworks.com
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