Fsuipc & PSS airbus

[Pete Dowson]

There's a gent persistently experiencing the opposite problem on the PSS forum...his A/P works, but the joystick axes are dead when he disconnects the A/P for a manual approach. He also gets a full-nose down trim runaway during taxi in after disconnecting the A/P. Sounds like there may be a connection.

Interim versions 3.328 to 3.331 included an error, introduced when the jitter filters were added, which stops fly-by-wire. I've sent a fixed version (same as above -- two fixes in one version! :wink: ) to Norman who I think is PSS's webmaster.

Regards,

Pete

[airforce2]

Doctor Dowson to the rescue once again! Thanks Pete.

Cheers

[dillon]

Guys I don't think we've solve the problem here... I've been trying to get this resolved for months now. I don't own anything from Precision Flight Controls so I guess none of this talked about on this thread can help me. The problem I have is similar though... After a flight when I disconnect the autopilot all control is lost around the virticle axis. You can't control pitch anymore. I us the CH Yoke & Peddles as my main controlers. Is there anything else concerning FSUIPC that might be causeing a problem with CH products??? I'm all out of ideas here.... :cry:

[Pete Dowson]

The problem I have is similar though... After a flight when I disconnect the autopilot all control is lost around the virticle axis. You can't control pitch anymore. I us the CH Yoke & Peddles as my main controlers. Is there anything else concerning FSUIPC that might be causeing a problem with CH products???

No, there's nothing in FSUIPC that cares about or has anything to do with any CH controls.

It sounds rather like you have the aircraft configured in such a way that the autopilot is using a rather extreme elevator trim setting, which is still set when you release the A/P. Try configuring a button or keypress to centre the trim. In FSUIPC you can do this in the Buttons or Keys page -- select the Axis Elev Trim Set control in the drop down and make sure the parameter is 0.

The airbus uses Fly-by-Wire and that is emulated in the PSS product by disconnecting all the controls and reading the values, through FSUIPC instead. This part was inoperative in versions 3.328 to 3.331 of FSUIPC only, due to an error on my part. But if you were experiencing this you would have not had any control before engaging the A/P in the first place.

Finally, in case it is an Airbus bug, maybe not relinquishing the elevator when you disconnect its A/P, you should post your problem on the PSS website and see if you can get help there.

Regards,

Pete

[dillon]

Thanks so much Pete for getting back to me!!! :D

First of all this control issue had been a problem if I remember correctly since I've been using the A320 in FS2k4. If I fly a quick touch and go (take off turn around and land) everything is fine. I can disconnect the autopilot and manually land the aircraft with no problem. The problem doesn't arise unless I plane a route through the MCDU (let's say CYYZ to KIAD) and fly. Once I get to my destination airport (KIAD for example) and come in for a manual landing the autopilot won't fully disconnect. The buttons turn off but control is lost around the vertical axis...

Trim is all but useless and upon landing as you can see the trim is stuck at a full 8% down (wish I could attach a pic)... The only way to get the trim to work again is to fully shut down the engines and turn the battery off and on again. I don't know where to look anymore because some users are reporting this and others aren't. Any advice you can give would be great.....

I want to stress the fact that the trim is ineffective once the autopilot is turned off as well as control (although I can roll the wings left and right, I just don't have any pitch control).... If I quick turn the autopilot back on control if given back to the autopilot to clean up the trim and autoland the plane. Upon rollout like I said above trim and yoke control is no longer an option. Looking outside the aircraft you can see the trim is stuck all the way down. I've posted a pic in a very long thread I've started on this issue over in the PSS forums at Avsim (title is "How does one Manually land the PSS A320???"). Like I said, I'm all out of ideas at this point and PSS is not offering any support on the issue... They've all but left this issue in the hands of the customers to figure out for themselves... :cry: If you look at the thread out of 50 responses and 1170 views, there's not one comment or instance of PSS ever addressing, acknowledging, and/or responding to this problem. It's very very sad....

Thanks for any help or ideas on why this is happening Pete...

[Pete Dowson]

If I fly a quick touch and go (take off turn around and land) everything is fine. I can disconnect the autopilot and manually land the aircraft with no problem. The problem doesn't arise unless I plane a route through the MCDU (let's say CYYZ to KIAD) and fly. Once I get to my destination airport (KIAD for example) and come in for a manual landing the autopilot won't fully disconnect. The buttons turn off but control is lost around the vertical axis...

For sure that sounds either like a bug in the A320, or possibly something going wrong with the CH controls when they've not been used for a while. In the latter case could USB power management be the culprit? I don't know much about it, but I have seen other time-related problems reported with USB devices.

Trim is all but useless and upon landing as you can see the trim is stuck at a full 8% down

That is pointing to the A320 code. Did you try resetting trim as I suggested?

I don't know where to look anymore because some users are reporting this and others aren't.

Need to find out what the common differences are then. For this I think you need to be in the A320 forum.

I want to stress the fact that the trim is ineffective once the autopilot is turned off as well as control (although I can roll the wings left and right, I just don't have any pitch control)

... but only after a lengthy flight. Or it is only when you use the MCDU?

All this really needs to be studied by the A320 support folks. I'm afraid I have no idea. There's certainly nothing in any of my software that knows anything about CDUs or lengthy as opposed to short flights.

Looking outside the aircraft you can see the trim is stuck all the way down.

... and you cannot override it with the trim controls, even the AXIS one I mentioned?

You can use FSUIPC Logging to monitor the trim setting, as it seems you have no trim indication in your cockpit. Go to FSUIPC's Logging page and look at the right hand side. Set the offset for monitoring to 0BC2. This is the trim indicator. You can also monitor the trim control input at 0BC0. These are not in angles but units such that 16384 is max deflection (-16384 max the other way). Check one of the options below for the display method -- the AdvDisplay one is usually best, it shows on screen then.

How long has this been happening? You say, since you first got the aircraft, but when was that? Which version of FSUIPC were you using then?

Regards,

Pete

[jcboliveira]

For some users there is a sudden yoke and/or pedals disconnect if they are using windows XP drivers. It's not related to USB power (but just in case check if the option is unchecked and if the consuption is bellow the maximum).

Usually the CH control manager install solves the problems. See if that can helps.

José

[dillon]

Thanks again Pete for getting back to me. First of all I'd like to thank you for the wonderful work you've done for FS over the years.... I've haven't taken the opportunity to say anything before and since we're discussing this issue there's no better time than the present. Everyone in this hobby owes you a dept of gratitude for the wonders you've worked with FS over the years. I was happy to contribute financially to your efforts when you started charging for registered copies of your module. So again thanks so much, you are one of the key players that make this hobby so great.... :wink:

All that being said let's get back to the issue at hand. First off I know there is nothing going on with my CH Yoke/Peddles because I don't have this problem with any other aircraft. Anything related to USB would carry over into other things...

As far as resetting the trim, there is no way to do it in the air unless you shut the engines down which is not a good idea on a landing approach. Anything related to pitch control is a mute point once the autopilot is disconnected. Now the autopilot can still control pitch if I turned it back on so there is diffidently a problem with the autopilot disconnecting fully. Actually that's the best way to describe this problem, ‘The Autopilot Doesn't Fully Disconnect’....

As far as common differences between users I haven't found any. My setup is basically the standard setup. Some may have different controllers but overall there really is no difference that I've been able to ascertain (Dell 8300 P4 2.5gig, Radeon9800).

I haven't tested flying a route without using the MCDU. That’s a great suggestion that I'll have to look into soon as possible. I'm really leaning toward an MDCU problem. This is not an issue of short versus long flights but more so I think when a route is planned in the MCDU and flown using it. Once you get to your destination the autopilot doesn't want to let go. As far as the PSS A320 support :roll: , we are the support unfortunately.... That's why I give you so much credit in hanging in there with us. Some companies leave you hanging high and dry but still expect you to keep buying their products. That's another topic for another time sorry.... :roll:

There is trim indication in the cockpit of the A320, it just reads 8% down on the display... I know that’s not exactly how another gauge would read the trim but let's just say the time is maxed out in an attitude that would force the plane into an uncontrollable dive if it were in the air. The trim doesn’t max itself out like this until the wheels hit the ground. The A320 will perform autolandings correctly I’m happy to report… Like I said above the autopilot doesn't fully disconnect and in essence the plane is still trying to fly itself. It's like PSS designed this thing with two autopilots, one to control the Horizontal axis and another to control the Vertical axis. Problem is, one of those autopilots doesn't turn off with the off switch in the cockpit...

Last but not least this has happened for me since FS2k4 was released. It has nothing to do with the FSUIPC version. I wrote PSS on this a number of times in the past and once was told it would be fixed with the upcoming patch at the time. That didn't happen so I shelved the package only to find no one else releasing a payware quality A320. I began using the aircraft again hoping PSS patched some more things up but that was not the case. Now they flat out refuse to support the product anymore. I'd hate to give up on such a nice add-on that I've enjoyed over the years and besides the issue I have here, this package still shines and there are no other problems. I'm just exhausting all options before I delete this product forever..... :cry:

P.S. José, I have the CH Control Panel installed (control wouldn't work right without it)... Thanks for the advice anyway.

[Pete Dowson]

As far as resetting the trim, there is no way to do it in the air unless you shut the engines down which is not a good idea on a landing approach.

Even using the keyboard trim controls (Numpad 7/1)? Using the FS control I mentioned?

Did you monitor those locations I mentioned? It sounds like the PSS cockpit code is continuously re-writing a trim value, presumably 16384 or -16384. This is sounding similar to the "stuck" elevator problem which the Wilco 767PIC was prone too -- the reason I added the so-called "spike removal" options in FSUIPC (technical page).

Please let me know the results of monitoring those offsets. If it is, indeed, similar to the old 767PIC problem then maybe I could extend the elevator spike removal to also operate on the elevator trim. But I need to know exactly what the stuck value looks like, please.

As far as common differences between users I haven't found any.

Same with the 767PIC spikes. I think they must have been down to some timing differences.

The trim doesn’t max itself out like this until the wheels hit the ground.

Ahso it isn't similar to the 767PIC spikes, then. It's simply the normal trimming with A/P engaged on the ground?

I'm a little confused now, then. Are you saying the trim getting stuck isn't the problem, it is more the disconnection of the controls?

If so, please monitor offsets 310A (as type U8 ) and 3328 (as type S16). The former is the control for disconnecting things. If that's an odd number (e.g. 1 or 3, etc) then the elevator is disconnected. 3328 is the value of the elevator which would be applied if it were not disconnected -- you can see if that is responding to your control input.

Maybe the A320 sometimes forgets to clear the 1 bit in offset 310A. You can construct an FSUIPC control to clear it for you to check. Assign a Key combination or a spare button to the "Offset byte set" control, with the offset "x310A" and a parameter of 0. That should release all controls back to you. However, maybe the A320 keeps resetting it. Keep monitoring 310A and see what goes on.

Last but not least this has happened for me since FS2k4 was released.

Was the A320 designed for FS2002, then, not FS2004?

Regards,

Pete

[dillon]

Thanks Pete, give me a little time and I'll check everything out using the suggestion you provided above. I'll get back to you as soon as I can.... :)

[spx003]

Hi everyone,

Running PSS A320 after changing the 3.2 to 3.4 FSUIPCdll, soon as hi reach 95-100kts on t/o rolling, it simply crashes my PC and reboot.

3.2 is the version wich comes with the PSS installer.

Anyone with a clue?

Tnxs

WXP...FS2K2... i don't eveen knowh wath elese more inside.

I knowh that Pete nevers sleeps so it will be the first to answer :-)

AP

[Pete Dowson]

Running PSS A320 after changing the 3.2 to 3.4 FSUIPCdll, soon as hi reach 95-100kts on t/o rolling, it simply crashes my PC and reboot.

I now have all the PSS aircraft and I cannot make any of them fail. I really don't think it can be anything to do with FSUIPC -- changing versions merely changes memory arrangements a little.

It does sound like there's something wrong in your FS installation somewhere. One common case of odd crashes is corrputed WX files, loaded with your Flights.

The other possibility is sound -- wouldn't the cockpit voicing start saying something then? Maybe there's a bad sound file or problem with the sound driver.

Try, temporarily at least, removing your FS9.CFG file so that FS makes a new one and boots with defaults. Then create an entirely new flight with the aircraft and try that.

WXP...FS2K2

Wait a mo', are you flying FS2002, not FS2004? This is with an FS2004 version of the aircraft? What's WXP?

Regards,

Pete

[spx003]

No , sorry, my mistake. I'm running windows XP and FS2004.

I will look right away about wath you said and look for the problem. I even made a log file from FSUIPC.

Now to be more accurat: on rolling T/O , only with throttle forward (without the "+" "+" to flex), it crashes and rebbot arriving exactly between 95 to 100 kts. That's the exact moment were the problem seem to appear.

...wath the hell PSS does at that speed? :(

FS9 config :that's a brand new one with nothing change inside. I've tryed about 10 min ago.

Going back to boot and reboot evening task.

AP

SPX003

[Pete Dowson]

No , sorry, my mistake. I'm running windows XP and FS2004.

If FS2004 causes WinXP to crash and re-booot, it is something to do with a driver somewhere. no ordinary software can do that. It is probably either the video driver or the sound driver that is crashing.

Now to be more accurat: on rolling T/O , only with throttle forward (without the "+" "+" to flex)

Sorry, i'm not an Airbus pilot. What does "+" "+" to flex mean?

it crashes and rebbot arriving exactly between 95 to 100 kts. That's the exact moment were the problem seem to appear.

...wath the hell PSS does at that speed? :(

I don't know -- is there some sound that would occur then? Perhaps you should ask PSS support?

FS9 config :that's a brand new one with nothing change inside. I've tryed about 10 min ago.

Okay, so it loads a default flight not one you saved? Then you create a new flight rather than load an existing one?

Regards,

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

No , sorry, my mistake. I'm running windows XP and FS2004.

See if the FS2004 crash you are getting is fixed with the official FS9.1 update just released by Microsoft. See my announcement at the top of this forum.

Regards,

Pete

[spx003]

Hi Pete, i believe solved the problem.

A clean re-install of all and until the moment perfect. Really sorry bothering the forum but i thought it was a FSUIPC conflict. My appologyes.

AP

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete, i believe solved the problem.

A clean re-install of all and until the moment perfect.

Good, well done! Thanks for confirming.

Good flying now! :wink:

Pete