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Too many runways and too few ILS Frequencies


octoflight
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This was in another topic already.

The 100m grass runways are the so called stars. These are the only way to convince FS9 to use non parallel runways for AI traffic.

The consequence for the ILS hadn't been reported up to now. Could you verify as example that they are missing for KSFO and not for KLAX - this would point into the crosswind hypothesis above.

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OK, so we understand now that it is an unwanted side effect of the crosswind airports.

A simple solution would be to just remove the crosswind feature. I attach a version of KJFK without crosswind support, please verify that you get the frequences for this one.

But the price to only be able to use the two instead of four runways for AI traffic is way too high as a long term solution, so I will have to try harder...

Let us concentrate on KJFK with Stars. Do you miss the ILS for all four runways, or do you have them available for the 13s and miss them for the 4R/4L only?

AF2_KJFK_nostar.zip

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Now I need your advice.

I tried to reproduce your effect, and opened the GPS receiver. But how on earth can you tell this box to receive an ILS signal - I can click on whatever buttom of this device and mostly nothing happens at all - bear in mind I also fail to use any of the modern celular phones, so please tell me step by step how I can do it.

Thanks.

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Hi Burkhard, I did some more investigation and here's what's happening:

1. The ILS feathers show on the FS9 map

2. The ILS frequencies are active. When I use a frequency obtained using the map it works properly when entered into NAV1. Direction and glideslope are active and seem to work properly.

3. However, if you click through on the map to the data table for the airport, the ILS frequencnies do not appear. This poses problems when flying an aircraft, such a Aerosoft's A320 that doesn't have access to the map.

4. I use FS Commander, and the ILS frequencies do not appear in any view on that tool. I presume FS Commander draws its data from each airport's table, thus, no ILS fruencies are imported for the crosswind airports.

Therefore, I suggest that the issue is the link on the crosswind airports between the ILS frequency database and the table showing the various runways for those airports.

Finally, I loaded your new KJFK file and there was no change. The STAR runways were still there and the ILS frequencies were not populated in the airport table.

I hope this helps with your investigation.

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That fits nicely to what I found out in a long night session by help of a bottle of Chianti :lol:

The missing frequencies have not really to do with the beloved stars, but with the way the airports got created.

What I do is to use NewBGLAnalyse to decompile the Airports. Than the stars get added by manual programming. Than these sources are compiled back to bgl useing the FS2004 scenery SDK.

I choosed Orly as an example that can be converted to stars due to runways layout, but wasn't yet.

Looking as it is before, the ILS frequencies show up in the list. First glass of Chianti.

OK, went through the process, frequencies are gone. Second glass.

Went back, and went through the same process without adding the star runways. Frequencies again gone. Third glass.

Checked on another airport. Same behaviour. Since I see the ILS in AFCAD2, tried to modify them. They do show up in the airport structures when looking with a HEX editor, but don't when decompiled.

( When programmers start with the hex editor, they forget to count glasses )

After some trials that brought nothing, I started to search for were the ILS are defined. I found that they are in the regional directories, distributed over the thousands of AP9xxyyy.bgl files, inside the runway structures. When AFCAD2 makes a new version of the airport, it does not copy the ILS structures.

So the next trial was the hard one: To dig out the correct ILS structures for the runways from AP9... files, and to place them into the code for the star airport at the correct location. I did so for KSFO and EDDF. ( The new York area will be very hard, since there are so many runways near to each other ).

Compiled the airports, desert alert on the bottle already on. Voila - the frequencies show up in the window.

These two airports are added here. They do show the ILS frequencies for the real runways, as well as have the stars to allow usage of all runways for AI traffic. Please, give these two an intense test if they do what you require, before I go to the other 27 crosswind airports and spend an hour or two on each to add this modification.

AF2_EDDF.zip

AF2_KSFO.zip

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OK, so I know what do do the next weekend, bad weather announced, fog, temperatures around 0 :cry:

The small grass runways will remain, since the alternative would be to have at KSFO and all the other 27 still to do airports only one or two runways used instead of all for AI traffic.

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Weather was bad enough, really ugly...

Here is a complete archive of 24 crosswind airports, now all ILS that is in the MS files added in.

Beta Testers and others, please check if

a) ILS frequences work now,

b) AI traffic still uses all runways.

Here is the download:

http://www.fsrail.com/NewCrossWinds.zip

The list contains

EBBR,EDDF,EDDH,EGQL,EGQS,EGYM,EHAM,EKCH,ESSA,KDEN,KEWR,KFLL,KIAD,KJFK,KLGA,KORD,KROA,KSFO,LEMD,LOWW,LSZH,PHNL,SBGL,CYVR

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Hi Burkhard, sorry for the delay between your post and now. Sometimes real life gets in the way!

As far as I can tell, the ILS names, frequencies and IDS now show up, so I think that this is a good fix.

Now another issue that may, or may not, be related.

Taking KJFK as an example. The ILS IMOH approach does not have the DME operational. That is, on that freq, the glideslope and directional aid works, but there is no distance shown to the runway. On the other hand, if I use another approach at KJFK, for example IIWY, the DME shows up.

This issue is not just crosswind airport related, it appears to pop up all over the place. Another example is approach IHA at MUHA. I can provide more if you need them.

As mentioned, I'm not sure if this is related to MT2006, but suspect it might be.

Any thoughts?

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I took these features exactly as they are included into the stock airports by Microsoft. So I didn't add DMEs to runways were Micosoft had none, but to those were MS has some, assuming they did it correctly. Indeed I have a data set at home were these are listed, but what I checked up to now it is identical to what MS uses...

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