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AI TRaffic on the ground


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Peter,

We need your help over at the avsim forum (Radar Contact)

http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=c_id=25399

Not sure whats happening but we cannot get any programs (via WideFS) to see AI traffic on the ground using FSX SPI and FSUIPC4.4.11. When you read the thread you will understand.

Thanks for you help

Andrew

I'll check here.

Is this only with FSUIPC 4.11? I had to make a change for FSX+SP1 because SimConnect was returning different User Aircraft IDs and SP1 was installed, and often FSUIPC would lose all contact with User Data. In FSUIPC 4.10 the change unfortunately made the User Aircraft also go into the TCAS tables, which caused continuous collision warnings in properly equipped airliners!

I fixed the latter in FSUIPC 4.11, eliminating the user aircraft from the TCAS tables by reading a SimConnect variable called IS USER SIM, or some such -- but this means I have to wait for that to be returned. Maybe SimConnect isn't returning this for ground aircraft?

I'll do some tests here later today. Last time I did check with TrafficLook I am sure I saw ground traffic, but I'll re-check.

Meanwhile, in case you no longer have it, I attach FSUIPC4.10 -- can you try it with that and let me know? Just put the DLL into the FSX Modules folder (save your 4.11 first). If the difference is between 4.10 and 4.11 I will have to review what SimConnect is doing and think again.

BTW TrafficLook is simple a demo/test for FSUIPC's TCAS tables and is just as valid for FSX as FS2004. It, along with other FSX goodies, is supplied separately now, in the FSX Downloads above.

Regards

Pete

FSUIPC410.zip

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I'll check here.

I cannot reproduce any problem with FSUIPC 4.11 and TrafficLook showing Ground Traffic. Have you checked with just FSX, freshly loaded, and TrafficLook?

If you are getting a situation with TrafficLook not showing ground traffic even when you can see it (the range is much shorter than for airborne traffic), then I need a lot more information in order to track it down. Like if it occurs always or only when some other add-on is running, or only after a flight reload, or use of multiplayer?

If I can't set up a situation in which it occurs I will have to work out what extra logging I can get to show the problem from the inside.

Regards

Pete

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I'll check here.

Ray Proudfoot (visiting me today) and I have just flown three flights with RCV4.3, with ASX running (both on a separate PC to FSX), and FSUIPC 4.11, and the ground traffic detection and RCV4.3 interaction worked fine in all three flights. TrafficLook confirmed this.

So, sorry, I am puzzled as to how they can be missing on your system. We'll need some process of elimination to see if there's a specific cause. Once I know more I can maybe suggest some logging options which would tell us more.

Regards

Pete

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Pete,

I'm also seeing no ground traffic in Trafficlook when starting FSX. I started at my default airport (Birmingham EGBB) and nothing was showing in Trafficlook, not even the user aircraft. I then changed the time and the traffic then showed up OK.

There's also another problem with traffic - some of the flights are not showing the flight number, just the airline name. This occurs in both ground traffic and airborne traffic.

The attached zip contains an FSUIPC log file from a session showing both problems, and an rtf containing a screen print of the Trafficlook display. The aircraft in slot 21 has just taken off from EGBB, and ATC announced it as World Travel 4027, but Trafficlook (and I assume the log file) just show it as World Travel.

Ian

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I'm also seeing no ground traffic in Trafficlook when starting FSX. I started at my default airport (Birmingham EGBB) and nothing was showing in Trafficlook, not even the user aircraft. I then changed the time and the traffic then showed up OK.

Sounds like a connection difficulty, not a TCAS tables problem. You need to start TrafficLook AFTER FS is running.

Which version of FS? Which version of FSUIPC? What other programs are running?

There's no difference to FSUIPC whether traffic are on the ground or in the air -- the only difference in treatment is the range at which they are included.

There's also another problem with traffic - some of the flights are not showing the flight number, just the airline name. This occurs in both ground traffic and airborne traffic.

Flight numbers are not assigned until the aircraft are under ATC control and actually commencing a route. You don't get flight numbers for aircraft injected by programs like VoxATC or multiplayer-type applications.

Flight numbers are also discarded for aircraft not reported as in a state known to be ATC-related, so the state is important too. e.g. "Init" or blank would not warrant a flight number, whereas Taxi and Enroute would.

The attached zip contains an FSUIPC log file from a session showing both problems, and an rtf containing a screen print of the Trafficlook display. The aircraft in slot 21 has just taken off from EGBB, and ATC announced it as World Travel 4027, but Trafficlook (and I assume the log file) just show it as World Travel.

As you say later, there are no attachments. Anyway, the log file will show nothing about AI traffic unless extra logging is enabled. Otherwise the file would become huge pretty quickly.

The first thing I'd need to know are all the details, like versions of everything, what else is running, and what you've changed recently. Apart from what i mentioned earlier regarding 4.11 and FSX+SP1 there's been no difference in anything regarding AI traffic in FSUIPC for about four years. So I obviously need to know what's changed just recently.

If you do mean FSX+SP1 and FSUIPC 4.11 then I need to know whether it was okay with 4.10, and I need a lot more information about what else is running and what you are doing. I've tested it all thoroughly on two different systems and cannot get anything at all to go wrong.

In case of FSUIPC4, please look in the FSUIPC4.LOG and see if there are any errors reported. If the SimConnect connection is playing up, that would more likely explain things.

Regards

Pete

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It looks like the attachment didn't work. Possibly it's too large at 2.7 Mb. I can send it by email if you think it will help.

Possibly, though more information is the prime requisite, and other tests as stated. If you want to send a ZIP (and it must be Zipped), please send to petedowson@btconnect.com.

Regards

Pete

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Pete,

This is FSX with SP1, FSUIPC 4.11, and the SDK with SP1a. Only default traffic is used. The only add-on is xclass from Cloud9, which would have no bearing on traffic.

Trafficlook was started after FSX, and after FSX had completed all the scenery setup, traffic loading etc. The FSUIPC log was created with the IPC Reads and writes box ticked initially, but writes were subsequently unticked, as I didn't think these would be relevant.

Although very large, the log shows empty entries in the traffic table for quite some time, until the time/date was changed in FSX, then it's ok. Towards the end of the log there should be the details about the flight with missing flight number. Again I repeat this is default traffic, and the aircraft has been cleared and taken off from EGBB. ATC correctly gave the flight number in the take-off clearance.

I have set the zip by email.

Ian

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This is FSX with SP1, FSUIPC 4.11, and the SDK with SP1a. Only default traffic is used. The only add-on is xclass from Cloud9, which would have no bearing on traffic.

I have xclass installed as well, in any case.

I have set the zip by email.

Thanks. This confirms what you say, but doesn't show why. What I really need to know is whether it is okay with 4.10 (attached in this thread earlier). Because if it is, then it must be purely down to the fact that FSUIPC 4.11 is now waiting for SimConnect to supply the "IS USER SIM" flag, and it isn't arriving very promptly.

If it is okay with 4.10 then could you go back to 4.11, enable SimConnect logging (as described in the FSX Help announcement above), and re-test. Keep it short, but long enough to prove the problem. then Zip up the SimConnect log for me.

I'll need that to discuss this meaningfully with Microsoft, because it would mean there's a SimConnect bug which will need fixing. Then I shall have to try to find a work-around.

The fact that there are occasional enroute airliner flights without flight numbers indicates SimConnect is also being a bit cavalier about some of the less essential data FSUIPC asks for. Did that never occur before 4.11?

Regards

Pete

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Pete,

I've been perfoming a series of tests for this problem, and have discovered the following:

1) It's not a problem introduced by 4.11 - 4.10 shows the same behaviour.

2) The lack of reported traffic is not restricted to ground traffic, although the effect is less apparent with airborne traffic. When first starting a free flight at an airport, Trafficlook displays no traffic on the ground or in the air. The airborne display begins to get populated within a few seconds, but does not display all aircraft. The aircraft displayed appear to be those entering the 'local sector' after the sim is running. Those that are already in the local sector are not displayed. If you wait long enough for one of these displayed aircraft to land at the local airport, this aircraft is then displayed as ground traffic, but none of the others at the airport are.

3) As discovered previously, if the sim time is changed causing a reload of the traffic, all local traffic is displayed as appropriate in the ground or airborne displays.

4) It seems that even after forcing a reload of the traffic by changing the time, those aircraft on the ground do not get a flight number displayed. This is even afer they have reached 'init' stage. In fact, as in my earlier post, if one of these aircraft takes off it then appears in the arborne display without a flight number too. Flights landing at the local arport do get a reported flight number. I haven't waited long enough to see if such aircraft get a flight number after turn-around on their outbound flight.

5) I have created Simconnect and FSUIPC logs from startup, through changing the time to force a reload, until after a nearby aircraft reached 'init' phase. I'm fairly certain that very briefly while in the 'plan' phase, Trafficlook displayed this aircraft with a flight number, but that disappeared immediately afterwards. I will be sending a zip of these two logs via email.

Regards,

Ian

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1) It's not a problem introduced by 4.11 - 4.10 shows the same behaviour.

Okay. So the problem is actually FSX SP1 rather than anything different in FSUIPC.

2) The lack of reported traffic is not restricted to ground traffic, although the effect is less apparent with airborne traffic. When first starting a free flight at an airport, Trafficlook displays no traffic on the ground or in the air. The airborne display begins to get populated within a few seconds, but does not display all aircraft. The aircraft displayed appear to be those entering the 'local sector' after the sim is running. Those that are already in the local sector are not displayed.

The phrase "after the sim is running." seems to imply that somehow you are getting AI aircraft populating BEFORE SimConnect has loaded FSUIPC and told it the the Sim is running. The method FSUIPC has of getting data on AI aircraft is by telling SimConnect to notify it of every "Add Aircraft" and every "Remove Aircraft" event. Obviously any of those occurring before it is even running won't be seen.

That's actually completely different to what I see here, where FSUIPC is most certainly ready and receiving data from SimConnect when the first loading progress bar is between 10 and 25%, certainly well before it reaches the "loading AI traffic" stage which is generally at 60-80% minimum.

I am puzzled as to why your system is behaving so differently to mine -- I've tested this on three different systems, very different speeds, XP and Vista, and with different amounts of add-ons installed from none to a lot. And it seems pretty invariant.

5) I have created Simconnect and FSUIPC logs from startup, through changing the time to force a reload

I'll take a look. I think only the early parts will be relevant to this, though your other, separate, problem of missing flight numbers is odd too.

[LATER}

After a first brief look at the SimConnect log, and comparing it with a typical one of mine, the difference i see is amazing. I get no notifications of any objects being added at all, but after 63 seconds of SimConnect starting there's a whole load of these:

< 63.60396 [63] ObjectAddRemove: EventID=10 Type=2 ObjectID=2936

which are Object Removed notifications!

The sequence FSUIPC is using should be foolproof. Here is the start. within 6 seconds of SimConnect starting up FSUIPC is asks to be notified when the Sim is ready ("SimStart"):

> 6.81561 [63, 2]SubscribeToSystemEvent:EventID=2, SystemEventName="SimStart"

and this actually occurs 34 seconds later:

< 40.39737 [63] Event: 2

upon which FSUIPC asks for notifications of Object Add/Remove:

> 40.50822 [63, 13]SubscribeToSystemEvent:EventID=9, SystemEventName="ObjectAdded"

> 40.50832 [63, 14]SubscribeToSystemEvent:EventID=10, SystemEventName="ObjectRemoved"

but it never then gets the ObjectAdded event for all those which get removed 23 seconds later!

All this is happening in the first 60 seconds of FSX being started. Even on my fastest system it takes over 100 seconds before it gets its first notifications of objects being added, yet it seems on your system they must have all been added in the first 40 seconds, before Simconnect has even said it is ready!

What sort of system are you using there? Maybe this is all to do with speed and multiple cores. Is it a Quad core or something? Maybe the SimConnect thread is running is one core whilst all these other things are racing ahead in another?

If this is indeed where the problem lies, there's one more thing you can try before I work out a general solution. Try setting

StartImmediately=Yes

in the [General] section of the FSUIPC4.INI file. If it isn't there to change, just add it. Here's how it is described in the Advanced User's Guide:

StartImmediately is not expected ever to be useful, but adding it and setting it to ‘Yes’ makes FSUIPC4 initialise the data interface with SimConnect immediately it is started, rather than wait for SimConnect to indicate “SimStart”. This is the way it operated throughout the Beta phases of FSX and in the first few public releases of FSUIPC4, but it was changed in order to avoid the SimConnect problems which seem to occur when more than one Client initialises at the same time, prior to FSX’s “start”.

Please let me know. If that helps or works, I may change FSUIPC4 so that it assumes that setting -- for FSX+SP1 only (because the problem it fixed certainly still exists without SP1).

Regards

Pete

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Okay. I've analysed the logs in detail, and I can only conclude that the problems are down to the change to multi-threading in FSX + SP1. I cannot reproduce anything like the problems you see, but I can theorise how they may occur assuming several things are going on in parallel in FSX.

There are two things I could do, and I've decided to do both of them.

1. Make FSUIPC4 "start immediately" if it detects SP1 or later. This will put it in a better position to catch things hapening in parallel with the main thread sequencing.

2. Utilise a separate SimConnect facility for requesting a list of all traffic at a given moment in time. I hadn't used this before because it wasn't needed - FSUIPC had always requested notifications of AI additions before they started.

Just to be on the safe side, I have made it ask for the list repeatedly, every 5 seconds, until it receives the first notification of an additional aircraft. This will prevent it missing any at all, I hope.

Before I make any general release of a version containing these changes, could you please download 4.112 from this link:

http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC4112.zip

This is just the DLL -- copy it into the FSX Modules folder. Try it and let me know, please.

BTW, I should have mentioned this earlier really. Instead of enabling all that IPC read/write logging, for AI data you can get good logging by adding these lines to the [General] section of FSUIPC4.INI:

Debug=Please

LogExtras=512

Actually, with "Debug=Please" there you can enter the LogExtras number in the Logging options. There are a number of different debug logs which I control that way, but they change from version to version and I prefer to have them used on a need and request basis.

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete,

Well, with 4.112 there's bad news and good news.

The bad news is that Trafficlook still shows no ground traffic initially.

The good news is that on switching to airborne traffic that appears to be complete. Also, if I use the trick of changing the sim time by a few minutes to reload the traffic, the ground traffic appears as it did with 4.11, but the difference is that as soon as a flight reaches the 'clearance' phase it displays the flight number correctly.

The puzzling thing is that although the ground display is initially blank, if I'm reading correctly the FSUIPC log (with the debug options you gave in your last post) appears to show all the traffic, ground and airborne, right from the start. For example:

41563 AIRCRAFT: Ref=2901 [x0B55],OnGnd=1,Tail="F-BHDM",Airline="Orbit",Flight="1123",Type="DeHavilland"

41563 Lat=52.4568,Lon=-1.7367,Alt=334,Gnd=327, GS=0,AS=0,VS=0,Pch=-0.1,Bnk=0.0,COM1=2485

41563 State="sleep" [1], Runway="", From="EGBB", To="LFLL"

Then there's a series of entries such as:

42547 Aircraft Object ID 2876 supplied

Then more AIRCRAFT lines, which I assume are the aircraft entering the local sector after the sim is running.

Simconnect and FSUIPC logs available if you need them.

Regards,

Ian

ps I don't believe my PC is abnormally fast. It's a core 2 duo 6600 with 2 GiB RAM. No overclocking.

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Well, with 4.112 there's bad news and good news.

The bad news is that Trafficlook still shows no ground traffic initially.

The good news is that on switching to airborne traffic that appears to be complete.

Well, neither SimConnect nor FSUIPC makes any distinction between ground and airborne traffic --it is only a flag saying "on ground" or not. Oh, and of course the range at which FSUIPC adds ground traffic into the list is 3 nm, whereas the range for airborne is 40 nm default, or unlimited if you set it that way.

the difference is that as soon as a flight reaches the 'clearance' phase it displays the flight number correctly.

The flight number is not relevant before the clearance.

The puzzling thing is that although the ground display is initially blank, if I'm reading correctly the FSUIPC log (with the debug options you gave in your last post) appears to show all the traffic, ground and airborne, right from the start.

Okay, so it is only TrafficLook not getting the data?

Simconnect and FSUIPC logs available if you need them.

Yes please. Oh, maybe for the FSUIPC4.LOG could you enable IPC read logging again, just so we can be sure the ground tables are still all zero? Don't leave it on after this though. It makes the logs far too big and hard to read.

Apart from that I need to think what extra logging I need now. Nothing is making any sense. As I say, there's really no difference at all between ground and airborne except for a flag, unless all your ground traffic was more than 3nm away.

ps I don't believe my PC is abnormally fast. It's a core 2 duo 6600 with 2 GiB RAM. No overclocking.

I have tried it on a P4 3.2GHz with 1.5Gb, a Core 2 Duo 2GHz with 2Gb, and an Extreme Core 2 6800 with 2Gb (my fastest), and none of them exhibit ANY of the symptoms your does. Equally, none of them manage to get to loading any AI traffic for at least the first 120 seconds -- well over 80% of the progress bar. (Did you observe this at all in yours?)

Maybe it's related to some setting in your CFG file. Could you Zip me your FSX.CFG file so I could try it please?

I'll think about what additional information I need to find out what it happening to the ground traffic. Looks like another day ...

Regards

Pete

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I've been looking at my FSUIPC4 code for this [Red part is a later correction]:

The puzzling thing is that although the ground display is initially blank, if I'm reading correctly the FSUIPC log (with the debug options you gave in your last post) appears to show all the traffic, ground and airborne, right from the start. For example:

41563 AIRCRAFT: Ref=2901 [x0B55],OnGnd=1,Tail="F-BHDM",Airline="Orbit",Flight="1123",Type="DeHavilland"

41563 Lat=52.4568,Lon=-1.7367,Alt=334,Gnd=327, GS=0,AS=0,VS=0,Pch=-0.1,Bnk=0.0,COM1=2485

41563 State="sleep" [1], Runway="", From="EGBB", To="LFLL"

When this is logged the data for that aircraft has ALREADY been added to the TCAS tables being read by TrafficLook, UNLESS it needs to be eliminated for some reason -- the main one for Ground traffic being range. Of course I don't know where you were so I can't check that. In the next update I'll add a comment for "out of range" where appropriate.

Oh, one other thing: the ground range of 3nm only applies when the user aircraft is on the ground. When you are airborne the range in 6 nm. See if, when you get in the air the ground traffic get listed. If so then it seems the range is the problem. (You can slew to get in the air but you will have to unslew temporarily to get the "on ground" flag cleared. Enter slew mode again before you crash then check TrafficLook).

BTW the Flight Number "1123" above isn't used because until clearance it isn't valid. That one almost certainly comes from the default Flight number in the aircraft's CFG file.

Then there's a series of entries such as:

42547 Aircraft Object ID 2876 supplied

That's part of the new code -- the response from SimConnect to my request for a list of all current aircraft. There should have been some BEFORE the first AIRCRAFT entries, otherwise those must have arisen from the normal notifications of objects being added.

Then more AIRCRAFT lines, which I assume are the aircraft entering the local sector after the sim is running.

No, they'll more likely be the results of the preceding Object ID supplied occurrences -- in fact you should be able to match up the IDs (I call the ID "Ref=..." in the AIRCRAFT lines -- this is historical, from FS2002 days).

Pete

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Peter,

We need your help over at the avsim forum (Radar Contact)

http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=c_id=25399

Not sure whats happening but we cannot get any programs (via WideFS) to see AI traffic on the ground using FSX SPI and FSUIPC4.4.11. When you read the thread you will understand.

Thanks for you help

Andrew

I'll check here.

Is this only with FSUIPC 4.11? I had to make a change for FSX+SP1 because SimConnect was returning different User Aircraft IDs and SP1 was installed, and often FSUIPC would lose all contact with User Data. In FSUIPC 4.10 the change unfortunately made the User Aircraft also go into the TCAS tables, which caused continuous collision warnings in properly equipped airliners!

I fixed the latter in FSUIPC 4.11, eliminating the user aircraft from the TCAS tables by reading a SimConnect variable called IS USER SIM, or some such -- but this means I have to wait for that to be returned. Maybe SimConnect isn't returning this for ground aircraft?

I'll do some tests here later today. Last time I did check with TrafficLook I am sure I saw ground traffic, but I'll re-check.

Meanwhile, in case you no longer have it, I attach FSUIPC4.10 -- can you try it with that and let me know? Just put the DLL into the FSX Modules folder (save your 4.11 first). If the difference is between 4.10 and 4.11 I will have to review what SimConnect is doing and think again.

BTW TrafficLook is simple a demo/test for FSUIPC's TCAS tables and is just as valid for FSX as FS2004. It, along with other FSX goodies, is supplied separately now, in the FSX Downloads above.

Regards

Pete

Pete,

I have been reading this thread and decided load the Beta Ver 4.12 DLL to carry out some testing to add to Ian comments. You are not going to believe this but it fixed the problem. All AI aircraft know show up on the ground.

Thanks

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I have been reading this thread

Well, I'd hope so as you started it! ;-)

and decided load the Beta Ver 4.12 DLL to carry out some testing to add to Ian comments.

4.112. I may release it as 4.12 in due course. But I have a 4.113 here under test, so we'll get that checked first.

You are not going to believe this but it fixed the problem. All AI aircraft know show up on the ground.

Well of course I believe it, as it should. I don't understand how Ian still has a problem. He shows that FSUIPC4 is receiving the ground traffic data, and from what he's shown me so far the only possible reason they don't get into the TCAS tables is that they are out of range.

Anyway, until I know for sure I am not able to do more. This is why I am awaiting new logs from him before getting 4.113 up for testing.

Thanks for confirming it is okay on your system.

Regards

Pete

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Hi,

I have created the logs, and will send via email. The sequnce of events was:

1. Ensure IPC read logging set on in FSUIPC

2. Stop and restart FSX at my default EGBB having set time to 'day'

3. Wait for loading bar to reach 100%

4. Start Trafficlook - no ground traffic displayed

5. Wait a few seconds

6. Turn IPC read logging off

7. Slew off ground

8. Unslew for a few seconds

9. Slew

10. Trafficlook still displays no ground traffic, but airborne ok

11. Change sim time by 5 minutes

12. Trafficlook now displays ground traffic ok

Regards,

Ian

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I have created the logs, and will send via email.

Please remember to include your FSX.CFG file as I mentioned. It seems now this problem is unique to your system, so I need to find out what the differences are.

AHit has just arrived, and I see you have! Thanks.

Regards

Pete

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I have created the logs ...

The logs make no sense to me at all. Everything in my code is the same whether the traffic is on the ground or in the air. The only difference is the range, as I explained. The FSUIPC is log is simultaneously showing that there are some ground aircraft at EGBB (where you say you are, and presumably within 3 nm), yet also showing that the ground TCAS table is empty as shown in TrafficLook.

I will try to adapt your FSX.CFG to one of my test systems to see if that enables me to reproduce it, but it is pretty much unlikely.

There are actually three possible reasons why an aircraft might be excluded from the tables:

1. Tables are full (there's only room for 96 of each, air borne and ground). This obviously doesn't apply as the ground table has 96 free slots!

2. The aircraft is actually BELOW ground. This check was put in because some programs or flight schedules managed to fly AI aircraft underground causing all sorts of problems.

3. The aircraft is out of range.

I need to see which of these is actually doing it, presumably because of some odd miscomputation, so could you please download 4.113 from:

http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC4113.zip

I've added some extra logging for this. Please disable the IPC read logging, and change the "LogExtras" number, in the INI file, from 512 to 1536.

You don't need to do SimConnect logging any more as that shows all is as I'd expect. I just need the FSUIPC4.LOG please.

Regards

Pete

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Hi again Ian,

Okay, I think I've nailed it.

The original problem was that because of the way your system was behaving (and I still don't know why the timing was different), there were AI traffic additions being made inside FSX before FSUIPC4 had asked for these events to be notified. This resulted in some AI being missing -- and since ground traffic tended to be added before airborne traffic, it affected the ground more than the air traffic.

Probably the quickest fix for that, had we realised what was happening earlier, was to do that "StartImmediately=yes" change (or just set that parameter). This may not have been foolproof, but it may well have been.

To try to make things foolproof I added new code to ask SimConnect to supply complete lists of all current AI traffic, before I start receiving Addition events.

This should have worked fineand it would have, except that with your StartUp setting for FSX it supplies that list BEFORE it actually tells me anything about the user aircraft. At the time I'm checking whether the aircraft are in range the User aircraft position is Lat=0, Long=0, so unless you are parked in the sea off the West African coast none of the ground traffic are in range initially.

The [startUp] difference in FSX.CFG is that you have your default flight loaded THEN you go into the FSX initial selection menu and presumably "Fly Now" to get into flying mode. I use "SHOW_OPENING_SCREEN=0" to go straight in with the default flight. This seems to have everything right when FSUIPC4 is getting the AI lists.

Now even not having the correct User aircraft position shouldn't have been a problem, since when it is actually positioned the range check will work and the appropriate AI aircraft will be put in the tableexcept that after the user aircraft is ready I get a pile of aircraft added events for the same aircraft.

This second appearance of the same batch of aircraft caught me out. The code for dealing with them put them in the same, correct, slot, but because they were apparently "added" (new) aircraft it reset the flags saying that it had the information needed and then wouldn't deal with them until that information arrived -- which it never would because SimConnect had already provided it (it only sends changes).

So, all in all, a complex sequence of events occurred. In effect, I fixed the problem of the missing aircraft but in so doing I created another problem which caused even more to disappear! :-(

This latter problem is the one I saw, and which I have now fixed in 4.114. I've never actually seen the original problem, but from the logs I do believe that was fixed in the last two test releases.

Please get 4.114 here

http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC4114.zip

and give it a test. If it is okay I'll put it on the FSX Downloads announcement.

Regards

Pete

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SUCCESS!

Thanks Pete for all the work you've put into this. Although I don't do much in the way of programming these days I do remember how difficult it can be to eliminate some obscure bugs. At least I was usually only programming for myself. It must be an order of magnitude more difficult when someone else encounters a problem that you can't reproduce locally.

Thanks once again.

Ian

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