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FSUIPC4 controller filter question


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Hello All

I seem to have the same problem everyone else does with the old style 15 pin game port. When I do a controller calibration for my CH Virtual Pilot Pro with pedals the Z axis value (throttle) returns the Y axis value (elevator) randomly about 5-10 times per second for a very quick instance then returns back to the correct Z axis value. Likewise the Y value returns the Z axis value but not as often. Of course there is no interest in fixing this problem conventionally by any driver software engineer that I can find. So I am seeking help here!

I read about a filter in the controller section in FSUIPC4 that is designed to smooth out the controllers response. However I am concerned that the filter won't suffice as it may simply average incorrect data with true data and ultimately changes the true value of the axis a bit after filtering. Has anyone found any real type of fix for this crazy problem so Windows XP doesn't do this?

I know nothing about the filter in FSUIPC4 as it stands but perhaps using a filter correction scheme that simply excludes any values that are obviously not part of the average instantaneous data would suffice.

A suggestion on my part but would be to implement a simple filter algorithm that aquires the RMS value of the controller data. The RMS method senses the "true power factor" of the data while short bursts of erroneous data have a minor influence. It's like bouncing a basketball against a heavy rudder, not much happens.

I haven't purchased Pete's software yet and I am hoping someone else with a similar problem can verify that his current filter works for this type of problem. He mentioned it was not a perfected filter by any means but if it works I will probably purchase the software. If you know how to alert Pete to this post that would be great.

Any help appreciated.

Thanks

Alan

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I seem to have the same problem everyone else does with the old style 15 pin game port. When I do a controller calibration for my CH Virtual Pilot Pro with pedals the Z axis value (throttle) returns the Y axis value (elevator) randomly about 5-10 times per second for a very quick instance then returns back to the correct Z axis value. Likewise the Y value returns the Z axis value but not as often. Of course there is no interest in fixing this problem conventionally by any driver software engineer that I can find. So I am seeking help here!

Hmm, odd that if this is such a common problem, I've never heard of it?

Is this something to do with lack of proper Game Port support in modern Windows versions? If so, would a USB=Game Port adapter sort it out. After all the main driver interface would then presumably be a modern USB type. The original Game Port system required the low level drivers to actually sit in a tight loop measuring the decay time of a capacitor!

I read about a filter in the controller section in FSUIPC4 that is designed to smooth out the controllers response. However I am concerned that the filter won't suffice

Well, it is axis-oriented, not controller, and it is a low-pass digital filter very approximately set for something around a few Hz (sorry, I don't remember how many -- maybe 2-5), so it may or may not help. If you are using FS's own assignments, then considering the polling frequency in FS is only about 6Hz, it probably is no help at all. FS's own axis assignments will poll a lot faster, so the filter may be more efficient, but if your axis is giving the wrong value at 5-10Hz, with insufficient "right" values then I don't see how any filter can derive any good value for you.

as it may simply average incorrect data with true data and ultimately changes the true value of the axis a bit after filtering. Has anyone found any real type of fix for this crazy problem so Windows XP doesn't do this?

It might be a good idea to visit some of the more hardware-oriented forums to ask this. As I say, I've never heard of such a problem before. I assume you are actually using a real Game Port, not a USB one? If so, I reckon your best bet is to get a USB adapter and try that. They aren't too expensive.

I know nothing about the filter in FSUIPC4 as it stands but perhaps using a filter correction scheme that simply excludes any values that are obviously not part of the average instantaneous data would suffice.

That's not possible if your wrong value as as frequent or more frequent than the polling interval -- if it filtered that much you'd have a very unresponsive axis in normal use.

Regards

Pete

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Well, I heard all kinds of complaints with these legacy game ports. Many people are complaining that they just don't work period. If you have not heard of this problem then I can only assume at best I am lucky to get this far with mine and that others did not even get that far. My other xp machine does the exact same thing, It has completely different chipsets. Maybe it is my CH VPP doing this. I'll try an old joy stick, maybe the port is working after all. Thanks for the help. Hope these USB adapters work....

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Thanks, Pete, I guess xp's shared interrupts cause this problem,

I do have a laptop that I could install win98 on and use my controllers, they work fine on 98. If I understand things correctly, FSUIPC4 allows use of a different computer for the controllers. Can I interface my two computers with an ethernet crosslink cable? Is there a limited trial key code I can use to try things out?

The usb adapter sounds good but I am not sure about their ability to fully support all the virtual pilot pros functions along with the 2 pedals.

It seems that FSUIPC4 handles many usb devices. I assume you don't need any device drivers from any of the hardware manufacturers. This seems good because it allows me to pick and choose from different manufacturers without worry. Thanks a lot...

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If I understand things correctly, FSUIPC4 allows use of a different computer for the controllers.

You are thinking of WideFS, and, sorry, the remote connection would only apply to buttons and switches. There's no facility for remote axis controls. I did experiment once with this but the latency (although measured in fractions of a second) wasn't nice when flying, being akin to a very low frame rate and making you over-control.

I know Networks have become a lot faster these days and so, except for fighters and stunt planes, the remaining lower latency (maybe 20-100 mSecs) could be tolerable for airliner and slower GA aircraft, but the demand hasn't been there and generally it is much better connecting axes directly.

The usb adapter sounds good but I am not sure about their ability to fully support all the virtual pilot pros functions along with the 2 pedals.

The normal game port supports 4 axes and 4 buttons, max. CH did do a driver which used the 4 button connections in combination to provide up to 14, but they still look like 4 button lines, they are just decoded in the driver together.

There are certainly two different qualites of game port adapter -- those which support 2 axes + 2 or 4 buttons, and those which support the lot. You'd need to read the description before buying. The question really then becomes whether the CH driver, the one with the 14-button decode routine, will recognise the device correctly connected via USB.

I suspect you need to contact CH and ask their advice. First, though head here and look/ask: http://www.ch-hangar.com/

It seems that FSUIPC4 handles many usb devices.

No, it doesn't handle devices directly. It simply uses the Windows facilities for reeading button and axis values. It has no idea how they get there.

I assume you don't need any device drivers from any of the hardware manufacturers. This seems good because it allows me to pick and choose from different manufacturers without worry. Thanks a lot...

Windows has generic "4 axis, 4 button" drivers which will be assignable. The problem would be to decode the 4 button lines, resolving the combinations into 14 buttons or whatever. Maybe CH's own decoder would be available or work as it stands. I just don't know, sorry. There is a fall-back position, which would be to use FSUIPC's conditional button programming to process the 4 buttons and derive 14 possible actions from them. But that is pretty complex.

Regards

Pete

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Yes, I am getting the picture, it all makes sense. It's good to know there is a way to program the buttons in fsuipc4, that would be perfect. If it's less cumbersome than doing assembly language on a Commode 64 I think I could handle it. Thanks for telling me about that!!!

We are having freezing rain here in Missouri and the planes at Lambert airport seem to be coming in faster than usual and setting down closer to the center of the runway rather than the beginning by the papi. I can see how the extra speed could keep the airplane straight on the runway if it's iced up but just why they are not landing where they have more room to slow down is way beyond me. I'm sure they have their reasons.

Gonna try the Rockfire RM-203. If all goes well I'll get fsuipc4 and work on it. Spending $300 dollars for something I already have is, well, ...

Greatly appreciate the help. ty

Alan

P.'s I use Intels Q6600, Asus P5E, Msi's gts 8800, a pair of Striped Western Digital Raptors and get appx 30 frames per second of ultra high res fxs settings on a 21 inch monitor at full resolution. Nothing is overclocked. Rock solid except for the analog joystick problem. Amazing how fast this new stuff is. Really fun simming...

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P.'s I use Intels Q6600, Asus P5E, Msi's gts 8800, a pair of Striped Western Digital Raptors and get appx 30 frames per second of ultra high res fxs settings on a 21 inch monitor at full resolution. Nothing is overclocked. Rock solid except for the analog joystick problem. Amazing how fast this new stuff is. Really fun simming...

Seems really good then. Seems odd having all that really up-to-date modern kit (much better than anything I've got at present) but have to struggle with a very old plastic yoke on a game port!

Regards

Pete

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Funny, I just assembled that new computer and don't want to have to spend any more. At least not for a while. Thanks for the guidance Pete, it's nice to be able to converse online with others fascinated with aviation. It's a good passtime for me and my old Athalon xp 1700 processor was overloaded all the time even with all scenery at a minimum. It just wasn't much fun like most of my other games so I forked out about 1500 for all the new gear, moaned and groaned, but do spend about 4 hours a day on it for something to do that's not so technical like work. The random problem with the controllers is something I didn't count on and 15 more dollars for a usb device is not so bad.

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