Pete Dowson Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Just so you're aware, according to the ASX networking setup instructions for the FSX server, in addition to the simconnect.xml instructions, simconnect-client users are to also set a simconnect.ini file and have it configured as http://was.hifisim.com/ASXDocumentationonfig.html Oh, right. Weird. The Console option gives you a real-time display on screen. Not much use for sending to folks like me! The file I asked for is no doubt similar, but it is not an addition to that one. Just be sure, please, that it is producing a log file. You may wish to see the console (though with FSUIPC4 alone running it is too much. Must be pretty awful to make sense of with more running). Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vgbaron Posted February 27, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Sadly, I was also unable to reproduce the Super FOg with your settings, Al so I guess you'll have to carry the ball. I'll keep trying to generate it on my own however just in case it might be of some help to Pete. Good luck! OH - I haven't installed ASX Sp3 and I still got the fog. Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted February 27, 2008 Report Share Posted February 27, 2008 Hi Pete, Both Test1 v4.253 and Test2 v4.254 were successful in rendering the super-fog visibility reduction (e-mail heading to you with both logs attached). FWIW, I did notice that it occurs within seconds of ASXsp3 (on my FSX-client box) changing from "Depiction Output Idle" to "Depiction Output Active." Both tests were completed within 15 seconds of FSX entering the sim-state, at which time I stopped it as you requested (short & sweet). Oh, and I should also mention that I upgraded my Nvidia driver to version 174.12 beta last night as folks in the AVSIM Hardware Forum have found them quite favorable. This might inidicate that having changed the driver, the super-fog issue is not related to video (maybe). Also, for the record, I have yet to let ASX update the XGraphics textures since the super-fog became reproduceable; of course they should stay the same since I'm hard-setting the date & teme in ASX but you never know. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Both Test1 v4.253 and Test2 v4.254 were successful in rendering the super-fog visibility reduction (e-mail heading to you with both logs attached). Okay. Thanks. Unfortunately, it looks like my 4.254 changes made no difference for your settings, because you have some weather options other than wind smoothing set - you opted to suppress wind turbulence, so despite my changes to stop FSUIPC writing METARs at all (as a test), it has to write back those containing turbulence, in order to remove it. It might be a good idea to retry test 2 with the turbulence suppression removed. It would help to see if ASX can cause the problem all by itself, or whether it does need FSUIPC4 writing METARs too. Anyway, meanwhile this does give me some SimConnect logs to see if there's anything in the sequence of ASX and FSUIPC4 weather settings which might be casing the problem. I am now even more interested in the results of Test 4, when you have time to finish the sequence. The "PatchVisibilityValues" action is my only hope at present. If that fails I probably have an enormous amount of code hacking to look forward to. :-( Meanwhile, whilst I await the finish of the sequence of tests I will look at these logs -- tomorrow, now. Thanks & Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I am now even more interested in the results of Test 4, when you have time to finish the sequence. The "PatchVisibilityValues" action is my only hope at present. If that fails I probably have an enormous amount of code hacking to look forward to. :-( My sincere appologies Pete, had I been paying closer attention to your fine instructions above, I would have noticed that Test4 was requested. I had in my head that Test3 and 4 were only if Test2 failed to produce the fog. But, I just sent you the log files from running Test2 again, with "SuppressWindTurbulance=No" as requested, before starting FSX. Very, very interesting result was the fact the Super-fog did not appear, even after waiting almost a minute. So, while the sim was still running, I went back into the FSUIPC GUI and enabled (checked) SupressWindTurbulance again. As soon as the FSUIPC GUI closed, guess what showed up, SUPER-FOG. At this point I then closed the sim and I am sending just this logs immediately. Could SupressWindTurbulance be the cause of this? [Minor Update:] It seems that the super-fog will only set in on startup if SupressWindTurbulance=Yes. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Hi Pete, Test4 for the super-fog was just e-mailed as well. I had to set "SuppressWindTurbulance=Yes" again to produce the Super-fog test scenario. Also, as requested, "PatchVisiblityValues=Yes" was enabled. Super-fog was encountered within the first 15 seconds of the sim-state. I now think the issue has more to do with "SuppressWindTurbulance" enabled or not when starting FSX. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I had in my head that Test3 and 4 were only if Test2 failed to produce the fog. Test4 is a test of a first attempt I am making to control the visibility by writing direct to some values I found when implementing the wind smoothing. In previous tests I made with these, those values did influence the reported visibility, but didn't change the visual effect -- I probably need to find routines to call to make that happen. What I was hoping though (and it was only a thin straw), was that the same value changes might just fix the "super-fog". However, Alex also ran the Tests and his Test4 still gave the super-fog, so I don't think it is a solution at all. :-( I just sent you the log files from running Test2 again, with "SuppressWindTurbulance=No" as requested, before starting FSX. Very, very interesting result was the fact the Super-fog did not appear, even after waiting almost a minute. So, while the sim was still running, I went back into the FSUIPC GUI and enabled (checked) SupressWindTurbulance again. As soon as the FSUIPC GUI closed, guess what showed up, SUPER-FOG. This is more or less as I expected. FSUIPC4 still has to write back the METAR strings it reads if you have any of the wind filtering options enabled -- wind smoothing itself isn't such, now, as that is accomplished by writing directly to the wind component values. The difference between 4.253 and 4.254 is that I suppress all the non-filter related weather writes (this is what ReWriteSavedMetars=No and FixBadMetars=No affect). However, with you still having a filter in operation (suppressing turbulence), you were effectively still running 4.253. Sorry, I should have spotted that from the FSUIPC4.INI in your earlier ZIP. Could SupressWindTurbulance be the cause of this? No. It is something to do with the FSUIPC4 METAR write-backs, possibly interacting with those from ASX or other sources. [Minor Update:] It seems that the super-fog will only set in on startup if SupressWindTurbulance=Yes. No, it should also happen with ANY filter option enabled, or if you set FixBadMetars=Yes and/or ReWriteSavedMetars=Yes. That was why there was a specific sequence of tests outlined, to narrow it down in this way. For now I will probably separate the "Allow changes to FS weather" option from the wind smoothing and related weather effect facilities, so that you can uncheck the "allow changes" part and still use the smoothing. This will effectively make it run as most everyone has been running it for the last 18 months, except there will be wind (and pressure and temperature) smoothing available. Enabling the "allow changes" option will make the other weather filtering work, but, unless I can find a solution to the super-fog bug in FSX, will have to come with such a warning. Meanwhile I'll examine the SimConnect logs to see if I can determine any specifics which may be involved. I cannot understand why I can never get any super-fog to occur here, for instance. Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Test4 for the super-fog was just e-mailed as well. I had to set "SuppressWindTurbulance=Yes" again to produce the Super-fog test scenario. Yes, though any similar filtering option would likely do as well, or simply including these two parameters: RewriteSavedMetars=Yes FixBadMetars=Yes: though whether the "super-fog" would always occur at the same time without the turbulence suppression is anyone's guess. The result of that option in your scenario is an immediate write-back of the first METAR read, because it includes one wind later with turbulence. Anyway, to progressI've now uploaded version 4.255. Please try that for me, with these lines included in the INI: RewriteSavedMetars=Yes FixBadMetars=Yes: and, yes, your SuppressWindTurbulance=Yes included. If this doesn't help, I'm going to have to leave it for a while and look for a way of conquering the visibility on my return from holiday in late March. I'm still here until the end of next week, but I need to get a load of other stuff done too. So, as I say in the Release notes, on the assumption that my changes in 4.255 don't fix the "super-fog" problem, version 4.255 also has the "Allow changes to FS own weather" option separated from the wind smoothing, wind effects simulation, and QNH and Temperature smoothing options. This will allow these options to be used without FSUIPC4 re-writing any METARs at all. All the other weather filtering facilities still need the "allow changes" option. But please don't disable the "allow changes" option for the tests. That's the "get out clause" for when I temporarily give up. Best Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex65 Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Pete, I just ran a few tests and it looks good so far. No evil fog here. :D Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 I just ran a few tests and it looks good so far. No evil fog here. :D Could you show me the [General] section of your FSUIPC.INI please, just so I can feel it I've not missed telling you something. Also, are there still "ZERO VIS" warnings in the FSUIPC Weather Log? There should be, as I think the changes should make the fix for it work, but it doesn't actually stop the bug starting in FSX. Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Hi Pete, Still got the Super-Fog within 10 seconds of starting my KGRB scenario. I e-mailed you the Simconnect and FSUIPC v4.255 logs as well as my FSUIPC.ini so that you may double check my settings. As requested, this was with SupressWindTurbulance checked and the above edits applied as well. I assume that I can just leave SupressWindTurbulance unchecked for now and I should not encounter super-fog for now? The only reason it was checked was back when we were beta testing the PMDG LNAV/HDG issues for v4.25 and I forgot it was left in that state. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex65 Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Pete, here's the FSUIPC.ini: [General] RewriteSavedMetars=Yes FixBadMetars=Yes SuppressWindTurbulance=Yes History=QX4JQ31469GPE3EE8ZTEM TCASid=Flight TCASrange=0 AxisCalibration=No DirectAxesToCalibs=No ShowMultilineWindow=Yes SuppressSingleline=No SuppressMultilineFS=No GraduatedVisibility=No LowerVisAltitude=0 UpperVisAltitude=25000 UpperVisibility=10000 MinimumVisibility=0 MaximumVisibilityFewClouds=6000 MaximumVisibility=6000 MaximumVisibilityOvercast=2000 MaximumVisibilityRainy=1000 SetVisUpperAlt=No VisUpperAltLimit=0 ExtendMetarMaxVis=No OneCloudLayer=No CloudTurbulence=No CloudIcing=No GenerateCirrus=No SuppressCloudTurbulence=No MaxIce=-4 MinIce=-4 UpperWindGusts=No SuppressWindTurbulence=No WindTurbulence=No SuppressAllGusts=No MaxSurfaceWind=0 WindLimitLevel=200 WindDiscardLevel=400 WindAjustAltitude=No WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000 DisconnTrimForAP=No ZeroElevForAPAlt=No ThrottleSyncAll=No WhiteMessages=No ShowPMcontrols=No MagicBattery=Yes RudderSpikeRemoval=No ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No AileronSpikeRemoval=No ReversedElevatorTrim=No ClockSync=No ClockSyncMins=5 ClearWeatherDynamics=No OwnWeatherChanges=Yes TimeForSelect=4 LoadFlightMenu=No LoadPlanMenu=No PauseAfterCrash=Yes ShortAircraftNameOk=No SetSimSpeedX1=220,8 WeatherReadFactor=2 SimConnectStallTime=1 AxisIntercepts=No SpoilerIncrement=512 WindSmoothing=Yes WindSmoothness=2 WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes ZapSound=firework WeatherRewriteDelay=10 FixControlAccel=No SuppressWindVariance=No TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0 PressureSmoothness=0 TemperatureSmoothness=0 TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40 MouseWheelTrim=No VisibilityOptions=No Edit: After some flying I found the ZERO VIS READ messages in the log. Kind Regards Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 here's the FSUIPC.ini Thanks. That looks just right. Edit: After some flying I found the ZERO VIS READ messages in the log. Okay. So it sounds as if, in your case at least, the FSUIPC re-writes on zero vis did manage to catch the condition before it became visual. Unfortunately, I just got an email from Al where he gets no improvement -- still the "super-fog" in exactly the same place. So, I don't think my recent improvements really help in any useful way. From analysing the logs, especially the SimConnect ones (which include all the METAR settings from ASX as well as FSUIPC4, I think it is related to the fact that, unusually, ASX is setting two visibility layers. I've always avoided doing this, because it used to give problems with previous versions of FS. I've written to Jim and Damian to ask about this. If we could possibly get a test with only one visibility layer, just to see, it might be useful. I'll think more about what experiments I might be able to do as well. It is rather infuriating that Al can reproduce the problem at will and I can't ever get it to happen, despite logs showing dozens of bad "zero visibility" reports when running ASX. Meanwhile, if you just want to fly for fun till I think of something else, you can turn off the "allow changes to FS weather" option -- the wind smoothing and so on will still work, now, in 4.255. Thanks & Best Regards, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted February 28, 2008 Report Share Posted February 28, 2008 Al can reproduce the problem at will and I can't ever get it to happen, despite logs showing dozens of bad "zero visibility" reports when running ASX. Mom always said I could be a pain, LOL :mrgreen: Meanwhile, if you just want to fly for fun till I think of something else, you can turn off the "allow changes to FS weather" option -- the wind smoothing and so on will still work, now, in 4.255. Understand. Take a break, go have a drink and let the issue ferment for a day or two. It'll come to you in your sleep, that's how it always works for me :lol: Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Take a break, go have a drink and let the issue ferment for a day or two. It'll come to you in your sleep, that's how it always works for me :lol: Well, not quite, but I have done a lot more investigation today, and I am convinced that this "super-fog" is brought about by corruption in FSX's internal weather tables by the furious generation of multiple spurious wind and temperature gauges when it is interpolating and developing weather changes. I still have not generated your "super-fog" which obscures everything, even the virtual cockpit gauges (i.e. a true zero visibility), but I have managed to get "ZERO VIS" reports generated in the Log for surrounding WX stations, and a couple of times it has affected the weather at the aircraft -- down to 16 metres, though, not zero. I could still read the VC gauges and see vague building shadows in the gloom. Maybe the real zero you get is related also to the video driver's rendition. Anyway, it certainly seems to be harder to make happen if I speed up the spurious layer removal, and make it more severe. So this is what I've done, by default, in version 4.256, now downloadable. There are several tests you can make with that -- please see the Release notes in the Announcement. I'm expecting this to fail too, by the way. Well, I'm hoping it won't, but my hopes aren't too high. I have two more options I've thought of, to work out and build in, but I need to know the results of this first. The only remaining options would tend to lessen the abilities of FSUIPC to provide the weather filters it currently does. For instance, one would be for FSUIPC to detect "custom weather mode" -- i.e. weather controlled by an external SimConnect program, or by the user via the weather dialogues -- and butt out completely when this is happening. Best Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Hi Pete, Sorry, I'm still a bit confused after reading the instrctions with the download post; its been a long week. In preperation for testing v4.256 in the morning, can you be more specific about what settings you would like me to enter in my ini file? Of importance, I currently have: SurpressWindTurbulance=Yes LogWeather=Yes RewriteSavedMetars=Yes FixBadMetars=Yes Do I simply add the variables listed in the download post in addition to the above or adjust them further? Thanks... Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted February 29, 2008 Report Share Posted February 29, 2008 Sorry, I'm still a bit confused after reading the instrctions with the download post; its been a long week. In preperation for testing v4.256 in the morning, can you be more specific about what settings you would like me to enter in my ini file? By "as is" I mean exactly as you have it which you know causes the super fog. Obviously I am trying to make it work, so it needs testing in conditions you know causes the fog! Do I simply add the variables listed in the download post in addition to the above or adjust them further? Thanks... For the first test, as it says, I wanted those left alone, to "default". That's what I meant by "as is". Sorry for my brevity. The other settings are additional tests, as it says -- small changes in those parameters, to see what effect they may have. I have two more small tricks up my sleeve. After that I must give up till late March as I'm running out of time before my holiday (visiting son in Spain). Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Pete, Good news, after waiting almost 5 minutes at the startup of my Green Bay, WI test scenario, I did NOT encounter the Super-Fog during the first test (Test1) of version v4.256 moments ago. This is the same test scenario where I have been consistently getting super-fog immediately after ASX starts its depiction process from the simconnect-client. The only thing I changed for Test1 (since v4.255) was the upgrade of the dll to v4.256 and manually entered the line “WeatherRewriteSeconds=1” prior to starting FSX. Of importance, I have these settings in my FSUIPC.ini: SuppressWindTurbulence=Yes VisibilityOptions=No LogWeather=Yes WeatherRewriteSeconds=1 WeatherReadFactor=2 Do I proceed with the rest of the requested v4.256 tests as stated in the download thread or do we move in a different direction now that Test1 seems to have made a difference? For confirmation, how can I revert back to verify I still get super-fog while still using v4.256? If desired I could re-perform Test1 again but let it go a lot longer (sitting on the tarmac), although the simconnect log will get rather as you know. Will post this result in the forum thread and wait for your advise there. GOOD JOB! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Pete,Good newsOf importance, I have these settings in my FSUIPC.ini: SuppressWindTurbulence=Yes VisibilityOptions=No LogWeather=Yes WeatherRewriteSeconds=1 WeatherReadFactor=2 I assume you have "OwnWeatherChanges=Yes"? Otherwise the test doesn't mean much. That would be okay unless you switched "allow changes to FS weather" off to have a 'fun' flight. Do I proceed with the rest of the requested v4.256 tests as stated in the download thread Yes, please. I need to know whether it is just the time allowed to "phase in", or the frequency, or because I'm being more ruthless discarding extra layers. For confirmation, how can I revert back to verify I still get super-fog while still using v4.256? You can't really because you can't make it less aggressive in removing layers. With the WeatherReWriteSeconds at 10 and the WeatherReadFactor at 2 you otherwise have 4.255. Best Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 I assume you have "OwnWeatherChanges=Yes"? Otherwise the test doesn't mean much. That would be okay unless you switched "allow changes to FS weather" off to have a 'fun' flight.Yes, "OwnWeatherChanges=Yes" is in my ini which I have including in the e-mail I just sent to you for verification of current settings for Test1 :D I am also re-running Test1 right now (so far without super-fog).Yes, please. I need to know whether it is just the time allowed to "phase in", or the frequency, or because I'm being more ruthless discarding extra layers.OK, and understand. My intentions are:Test2: Change: WeatherRewriteSeconds=1 to WeatherRewriteSeconds=30 Test3 Change: WeatherRewriteSeconds=30 WeatherReadFactor=2 To: WeatherRewriteSeconds=1 WeatherReadFactor=1 You can't really because you can't make it less aggressive in removing layers. With the WeatherReWriteSeconds at 10 and the WeatherReadFactor at 2 you otherwise have 4.255.OK, but I may back-up to v4.255 for a minute to re-validate my test scenario is still capable of the super-fog. Good idea?Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 I may back-up to v4.255 for a minute to re-validate my test scenario is still capable of the super-fog. Good idea? Yes, ok! Thanks, Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 Hi Pete, I just e-mailed you my results below and the attached logs and ini for each of the following tests: V4.255 = reconfirmed super-fog within 15 seconds of entering sim-state. V4.256 Test1 (WeatherRewriteSeconds=1) = No Super-fog – tested through ASX “Depiction Output Idle” after entering sim-state (about 8 minutes) V4.256 Test2 (WeatherRewriteSeconds=30) = No Super-fog – tested through ASX “Depiction Output Idle” after entering sim-state (about 5 minutes) V4.256 Test3 (WeatherRewriteSeconds=1 & WeatherReadFactor=1) = No Super-fog – tested through ASX “Depiction Output Idle” after entering sim-state (about 5 minutes) V4.256 Test4 (Erased WeatherRewriteSeconds & WeatherReadFactor to set default) = No Super-fog – tested through ASX “Depiction Output Idle” after entering sim-state (about 5 minutes) Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dowson Posted March 1, 2008 Report Share Posted March 1, 2008 V4.255 = reconfirmed super-fog within 15 seconds of entering sim-state. V4.256 Test1 (WeatherRewriteSeconds=1) = No Super-fog – tested through ASX “Depiction Output Idle” after entering sim-state (about 8 minutes) V4.256 Test2 (WeatherRewriteSeconds=30) = No Super-fog – tested through ASX “Depiction Output Idle” after entering sim-state (about 5 minutes) V4.256 Test3 (WeatherRewriteSeconds=1 & WeatherReadFactor=1) = No Super-fog – tested through ASX “Depiction Output Idle” after entering sim-state (about 5 minutes) V4.256 Test4 (Erased WeatherRewriteSeconds & WeatherReadFactor to set default) = No Super-fog – tested through ASX “Depiction Output Idle” after entering sim-state (about 5 minutes) Hmm. Seems to confirm that the problem is due to the superfluous multiple wind and temperature layers, as the only real difference left is the rather stricter layer elimination used in 4.256. Thanks for these tests! It has been very useful. I think I know what defaults to use now -- did you notice any particular frame rate difference with any of these settings, BTW? Best Regards Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordanal Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 Thanks for these tests! It has been very useful. I think I know what defaults to use now -- did you notice any particular frame rate difference with any of these settings, BTW? You're very welcome Pete, it's the least I could do considering all the work you've put into the drops lately. As for FPS, it's a bit hard to tell as I changed Nvidia GPU drivers the other day, but the FPS were still locked @ 24 so these drops do not hurt my FPS in any way.Take care and regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex65 Posted March 2, 2008 Report Share Posted March 2, 2008 Pete, I did a lot of flights since I gave my last feedback and I did not get any super-fog using 4.256. I'm still using the settings I posted here in this thread. Regards Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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