Trouble with Flaps

[John Veldthuis]

I have not been flying for a while but have been updating each time a update come through. Currently on 4.325 installed.

I now notice however that I cannot get the full range of flaps on my PMDG 744X. There was no trouble previously and it looks like everything should work. I have assigned the level to send the data to FSUIPC for calibration. Looking at the out from this it gives the plane and says it has 7 detents with Incr of 5460. Moving the lever through its full range it definately outputs 7 different values. However in FSX it is only showing up as 6 and only gives me up, 1, 5, 10, 20, and 25. If I want 30 then I have to use the VC flap lever.

I have seen this once before but cant remember what the issue was. I do think it was something to do with a earlier version of FSUIPC though.

[Pete Dowson]

Looking at the out from this it gives the plane and says it has 7 detents with Incr of 5460. Moving the lever through its full range it definately outputs 7 different values.

And what are they?

Are you calibrating the detentes in FSUIPC, or just letting the positions take care of themselves?

However in FSX it is only showing up as 6 and only gives me up, 1, 5, 10, 20, and 25. If I want 30 then I have to use the VC flap lever.

6 increments at 5460 gives a range of 32760, which is so near the maximum of 32767 that I can't see how it could fail to reach.

I can try it here on the FSX default 747.

[LATER]

Okay. it works okay here with the default 747. The 7 values I get are

-16383, -11052, -5592, -132, 5328, 10788 and 16254.

Not sure why the first increment is 5331, but the rest are 5460 (well the last is 5466, but close enough). But nevertheless, they all work.

Regards

Pete

[John Veldthuis]

Looking at the out from this it gives the plane and says it has 7 detents with Incr of 5460. Moving the lever through its full range it definately outputs 7 different values.

And what are they?

Are you calibrating the detentes in FSUIPC, or just letting the positions take care of themselves?

However in FSX it is only showing up as 6 and only gives me up, 1, 5, 10, 20, and 25. If I want 30 then I have to use the VC flap lever.

6 increments at 5460 gives a range of 32760, which is so near the maximum of 32767 that I can't see how it could fail to reach.

I can try it here on the FSX default 747.

[LATER]

Okay. it works okay here with the default 747. The 7 values I get are

-16383, -11052, -5592, -132, 5328, 10788 and 16254.

Not sure why the first increment is 5331, but the rest are 5460 (well the last is 5466, but close enough). But nevertheless, they all work.

Regards

Pete

I am letting the positions handle themselves and has worked in the past okay.

I get exactly the same figures as you do

-16383 which should be UP

-11052 which should be Flaps 1

-5592 which should be Flaps 5

-132 which should be Flaps 10

5328 which should be Flaps 20

10788 which should be Flaps 25

16254 which should be Flaps 30

However the PMDG only gets to flaps 25. It has always got to flaps 30 up until about 4 weeks ago when I last few it. After the layoff it no longer gets there.

I did try a default 747 from FSX and it sees all the detents okay and gets to flaps 30. Not sure what is happening as there has been no change at all to my PMDG setup.

Is there an offset I can view to see what FSX is seeing for the flaps?

[Pete Dowson]

I get exactly the same figures as you do

-16383 which should be UP

-11052 which should be Flaps 1

-5592 which should be Flaps 5

-132 which should be Flaps 10

5328 which should be Flaps 20

10788 which should be Flaps 25

16254 which should be Flaps 30

However the PMDG only gets to flaps 25. It has always got to flaps 30 up until about 4 weeks ago when I last few it. After the layoff it no longer gets there.

I did try a default 747 from FSX and it sees all the detents okay and gets to flaps 30. Not sure what is happening as there has been no change at all to my PMDG setup.

That's totally weird.

Is there an offset I can view to see what FSX is seeing for the flaps?

Monitor 0BDC as U16 for the flaps control, 0BE0 and 0BE4 for left and right flaps indicators, also U16. If you set this to display in the FS window and in the Normal log you can see them in real time and also the Log will contain the SimConnect reads and writes.

0BDC goes to 16384 here when FSUIPC sends its top value. I've not idea why that doesn't work for PMDG. Maybe I need to stretch the values over a bit more. The fact that my first increment is less than the computed value disturbs me a bit. I wonder if that's a new thing. I'll trace it here, see why.

Regards

Pete

[John Veldthuis]

[quote name="Pete Dowson

Monitor 0BDC as U16 for the flaps control' date=' 0BE0 and 0BE4 for left and right flaps indicators, also U16. If you set this to display in the FS window and in the Normal log you can see them in real time and also the Log will contain the SimConnect reads and writes.

0BDC goes to 16384 here when FSUIPC sends its top value. I've not idea why that doesn't work for PMDG. Maybe I need to stretch the values over a bit more. The fact that my first increment is less than the computed value disturbs me a bit. I wonder if that's a new thing. I'll trace it here, see why.

Regards

Pete[/quote]

Have done that. When I pull the lever down I see a jump of 2731 for a split second on 0BDC and then it goes back to zero. As I continue to pull down I get the 2731 again.

Results are:

0BDC 0BE0 0BE4

0 0 0 Shows flaps up

2731 0 0 Shows flaps 1

5461 12411 12411 Shows flaps 5

8192 13653 13653 Shows flaps 10

10924 14894 13894 Shows flaps 20

13653 15638 15638 Shows flaps 25

Thats all I get. I tried to attach the logfile as well but it said the extension log is not allowed. I tried txt as well and same result. Will try and PM it.

[Pete Dowson]

Have done that. When I pull the lever down I see a jump of 2731 for a split second on 0BDC and then it goes back to zero. As I continue to pull down I get the 2731 again.

I suspect that's because PMDG is doing its own thing here, and"Flaps1" has no trailing edge flaps I think, just leading edge slats which are simulated in its code not in FS. It also must be intercepting the 16254 I'm sending for full flaps and deciding that isn't enough. Their code evidently hasn't much idea of a "range" of possible values for flap notches.

I can only suggest that I investigate why my increments are not as even as I would have thought, and try to fix that for you to re-test. I'll let you know.

Thats all I get. I tried to attach the logfile as well but it said the extension log is not allowed. I tried txt as well and same result. Will try and PM it.

No, no need. In any case you should always ZIP things. For pure text, which is what logs are, you can paste the relevant extracts into your message in any case. If the only logging you enabled was the monitoring I asked, and you only operated the flaps once, it should be very short in any case.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I can only suggest that I investigate why my increments are not as even as I would have thought, and try to fix that for you to re-test. I'll let you know.

It looks like the reason for the lowest increment being less than the others was to get the rest spotted more centrally in their "zones", matching FS's values more consistently. It seems, however, that this 'correction' is lowering the top value enough to defeat PMDG's code.

Please try http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC4327.zip and let me know. I've adjusted only the top-end, so if it is the top value i use 16383 instead of whatever the relevant number of increments provide.

Regards

Pete

[John Veldthuis]

I can only suggest that I investigate why my increments are not as even as I would have thought, and try to fix that for you to re-test. I'll let you know.

It looks like the reason for the lowest increment being less than the others was to get the rest spotted more centrally in their "zones", matching FS's values more consistently. It seems, however, that this 'correction' is lowering the top value enough to defeat PMDG's code.

Please try http://fsuipc.simflight.com/beta/FSUIPC4327.zip and let me know. I've adjusted only the top-end, so if it is the top value i use 16383 instead of whatever the relevant number of increments provide.

Regards

Pete

Tried it and I now get flaps 30 but it will not select flaps 25. Goes straight from flaps 20 to flaps 30 missing flaps 25 alotogeather.

[Pete Dowson]

Tried it and I now get flaps 30 but it will not select flaps 25. Goes straight from flaps 20 to flaps 30 missing flaps 25 alotogeather.

But I've only changed the top value, nothing else. That makes no sense at all! :-(

What are the numbers you are seeing now?

I really don't know how to solve something with a shifting interpretation. Something is weird with that aircraft.

[LATER]

It just occurred to me that perhaps the interpretation of the values by the PMDG aircraft is much worse than we thought. The only feasible explanation for the change you have seen is that one of the others is actually being ignored. Something like this:

-16383 which should be UP os okay

-11052 which should be Flaps 1 is okay but which may in fact be also giving flaps UP?

-5592 which should be Flaps 5 is okay but which maybe giving 1

-132 which should be Flaps 10 but which may be giving 5

5328 which should be Flaps 20 but which may be giving 10

10788 which should be Flaps 25 but may be giving 20

16254 which should be Flaps 30 but is actually giving 25

That's only one possibility. In fact any one of them apart from the first and last may be being ignored (or rather not differentiated).

I'm sorry, but I really cannot do anything without more information. I'm going to have to ask you to run some tests. We can do this best with a little Lua program. So, save the following in the Modules folder as "TestFlaps.lua":

n = -16384
while n < 16384 do
   n = n + 256
   ipc.control(66534, n)
   flapctrl = ipc.readUW(0x0BDC)
   flapindex = ipc.readUB(0x0BFC)
   ipc.log(string.format("Param = %d gives Handle = %d and Flap Index %d", n, flapctrl, flapindex))
   ipc.sleep(250)
end

Then go to FSUIPC options, enable Lua logging in the logging page (so it gets its own Log file -- else it'll share the FSUIPC4 one), the in the Keys or Buttons page, Reload Keys or Buttons (ro get the Lua file seen), then assign a key or button to "Lua TestFlaps".

Also "Reset" the Flaps calibration in FSUIPC4's calibration page -- otherwise it will work on these controls and we won't get the real picture.

Back in FSX, use the button or key to run the test. Watch the flaps lever. I put the Sleep in there to slow things down a little -- the test should take 128 x 250 mSecs, or 32 seconds (roughly). The reason for the sleep is so you can watch it if you want, and of course to give time for the lever to move.

After, check the Modules folder for "TestFlaps.log". Show it to me. Here's the result for the default 747. The lines I then marked <<<<< are those closest to the values FSUIPC4 is computing using increments. As you can see, with the exception of the two extremes (full down and full up), these are reasonably near the centre of each range. I could afford a slight shift, probably upwards.

  2377281 LUA: Param = -16128 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0 <<<<<
  2377625 LUA: Param = -15872 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2377969 LUA: Param = -15616 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2378266 LUA: Param = -15360 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2378531 LUA: Param = -15104 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2378797 LUA: Param = -14848 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2379125 LUA: Param = -14592 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2379406 LUA: Param = -14336 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2379734 LUA: Param = -14080 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2380078 LUA: Param = -13824 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2380328 LUA: Param = -13568 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
  2380688 LUA: Param = -13312 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2380938 LUA: Param = -13056 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2381188 LUA: Param = -12800 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2381563 LUA: Param = -12544 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2381828 LUA: Param = -12288 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2382078 LUA: Param = -12032 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2382438 LUA: Param = -11776 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2382688 LUA: Param = -11520 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2382938 LUA: Param = -11264 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2383234 LUA: Param = -11008 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1 <<<<<
  2383484 LUA: Param = -10752 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2383734 LUA: Param = -10496 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2384094 LUA: Param = -10240 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2384406 LUA: Param = -9984 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2384656 LUA: Param = -9728 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2384906 LUA: Param = -9472 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2385156 LUA: Param = -9216 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2385516 LUA: Param = -8960 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2385797 LUA: Param = -8704 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2386109 LUA: Param = -8448 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2386391 LUA: Param = -8192 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2386719 LUA: Param = -7936 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
  2386984 LUA: Param = -7680 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2387250 LUA: Param = -7424 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2387500 LUA: Param = -7168 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2387813 LUA: Param = -6912 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2388078 LUA: Param = -6656 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2388438 LUA: Param = -6400 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2388703 LUA: Param = -6144 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2388953 LUA: Param = -5888 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2389219 LUA: Param = -5632 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2 <<<<<<
  2389563 LUA: Param = -5376 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2389828 LUA: Param = -5120 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2390094 LUA: Param = -4864 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2390344 LUA: Param = -4608 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2390594 LUA: Param = -4352 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2390844 LUA: Param = -4096 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2391188 LUA: Param = -3840 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2391438 LUA: Param = -3584 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2391797 LUA: Param = -3328 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2392047 LUA: Param = -3072 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2392391 LUA: Param = -2816 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2392641 LUA: Param = -2560 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
  2392891 LUA: Param = -2304 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2393219 LUA: Param = -2048 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2393469 LUA: Param = -1792 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2393734 LUA: Param = -1536 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2393984 LUA: Param = -1280 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2394391 LUA: Param = -1024 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2394703 LUA: Param = -768 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2394969 LUA: Param = -512 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2395234 LUA: Param = -256 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3 <<<<<<
  2395578 LUA: Param = 0 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2395844 LUA: Param = 256 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2396094 LUA: Param = 512 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2396500 LUA: Param = 768 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2396797 LUA: Param = 1024 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2397047 LUA: Param = 1280 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2397391 LUA: Param = 1536 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2397641 LUA: Param = 1792 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2397891 LUA: Param = 2048 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2398156 LUA: Param = 2304 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2398406 LUA: Param = 2560 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2398750 LUA: Param = 2816 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
  2399000 LUA: Param = 3072 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2399250 LUA: Param = 3328 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2399516 LUA: Param = 3584 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2399766 LUA: Param = 3840 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2400016 LUA: Param = 4096 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2400266 LUA: Param = 4352 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2400516 LUA: Param = 4608 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2400766 LUA: Param = 4864 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2401109 LUA: Param = 5120 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2401359 LUA: Param = 5376 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4 <<<<<<<
  2401625 LUA: Param = 5632 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2401891 LUA: Param = 5888 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2402141 LUA: Param = 6144 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2402391 LUA: Param = 6400 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2402656 LUA: Param = 6656 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2402906 LUA: Param = 6912 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2403188 LUA: Param = 7168 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2403438 LUA: Param = 7424 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2403688 LUA: Param = 7680 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2403938 LUA: Param = 7936 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2404297 LUA: Param = 8192 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2404547 LUA: Param = 8448 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
  2404797 LUA: Param = 8704 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2405047 LUA: Param = 8960 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2405297 LUA: Param = 9216 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2405563 LUA: Param = 9472 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2405813 LUA: Param = 9728 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2406063 LUA: Param = 9984 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2406313 LUA: Param = 10240 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2406672 LUA: Param = 10496 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2406922 LUA: Param = 10752 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5 <<<<<<
  2407266 LUA: Param = 11008 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2407516 LUA: Param = 11264 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2407781 LUA: Param = 11520 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2408125 LUA: Param = 11776 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2408375 LUA: Param = 12032 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2408750 LUA: Param = 12288 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2409094 LUA: Param = 12544 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2409344 LUA: Param = 12800 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2409625 LUA: Param = 13056 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2409906 LUA: Param = 13312 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2410250 LUA: Param = 13568 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2410500 LUA: Param = 13824 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
  2410750 LUA: Param = 14080 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2411016 LUA: Param = 14336 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2411359 LUA: Param = 14592 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2411625 LUA: Param = 14848 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2411906 LUA: Param = 15104 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2412156 LUA: Param = 15360 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2412406 LUA: Param = 15616 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2412672 LUA: Param = 15872 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2412938 LUA: Param = 16128 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
  2413188 LUA: Param = 16384 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6 <<<<<

At this stage, I'm not even sure there will be values which work for "normal" aircraft and the PMDG 747. There may be a need for the notch calibration not only to define the places on the lever for detentes, but also the values to be associated with each.

Ugh. I do hope not. Things are complicated enough as they are.

Let's see your results.

Unfortunately I'm out all tomorrow, so it won't be till Saturday (maybe very late Friday) I'll be able to taker a look.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

The reason for the sleep is so you can watch it if you want, and of course to give time for the lever to move.

I just realised that the "ipc.Sleep(250)" line needs to immediately follow the "ipc.control" line to give time for the flaps to operate before reading the flap index (the control position should be okay, as that's immediate). Maybe also the delay needs to be more. But all that it would only affect the fringes of each range. We want to aim for near the centres if at all possible.

Regards

Pete

[John Veldthuis]

Okay I did the test flaps and got the following output.

********* LUA: "TestFlaps" Log [from FSUIPC version 4.327] *********
   581494 System time = 14:27:11, FSX time = 08:22:55 (21:22Z)
   581494 LUA: beginning "G:\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Modules\TestFlaps.lua"
   581556 LUA: Param = -16128 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   581868 LUA: Param = -15872 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   582180 LUA: Param = -15616 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   582461 LUA: Param = -15360 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   582773 LUA: Param = -15104 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   583070 LUA: Param = -14848 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   583366 LUA: Param = -14592 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   583662 LUA: Param = -14336 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   583974 LUA: Param = -14080 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   584271 LUA: Param = -13824 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   584552 LUA: Param = -13568 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   584832 LUA: Param = -13312 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   585144 LUA: Param = -13056 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   585425 LUA: Param = -12800 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   585675 LUA: Param = -12544 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   585924 LUA: Param = -12288 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   586174 LUA: Param = -12032 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   586439 LUA: Param = -11776 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   586689 LUA: Param = -11520 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   586938 LUA: Param = -11264 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   587188 LUA: Param = -11008 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   587438 LUA: Param = -10752 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   587687 LUA: Param = -10496 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   587937 LUA: Param = -10240 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   588202 LUA: Param = -9984 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   588452 LUA: Param = -9728 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   588701 LUA: Param = -9472 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   588951 LUA: Param = -9216 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   589200 LUA: Param = -8960 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   589450 LUA: Param = -8704 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   589700 LUA: Param = -8448 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   589965 LUA: Param = -8192 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   590214 LUA: Param = -7936 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   590464 LUA: Param = -7680 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   590714 LUA: Param = -7424 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   590963 LUA: Param = -7168 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   591213 LUA: Param = -6912 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   591462 LUA: Param = -6656 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   591712 LUA: Param = -6400 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   591977 LUA: Param = -6144 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   592227 LUA: Param = -5888 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   592476 LUA: Param = -5632 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   592742 LUA: Param = -5376 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   592991 LUA: Param = -5120 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   593241 LUA: Param = -4864 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   593490 LUA: Param = -4608 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   593740 LUA: Param = -4352 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   594005 LUA: Param = -4096 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   594255 LUA: Param = -3840 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   594504 LUA: Param = -3584 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   594754 LUA: Param = -3328 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   595004 LUA: Param = -3072 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   595253 LUA: Param = -2816 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   595503 LUA: Param = -2560 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   595768 LUA: Param = -2304 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   596018 LUA: Param = -2048 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   596267 LUA: Param = -1792 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   596517 LUA: Param = -1536 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   596766 LUA: Param = -1280 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   597016 LUA: Param = -1024 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   597266 LUA: Param = -768 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   597531 LUA: Param = -512 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   597780 LUA: Param = -256 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   598030 LUA: Param = 0 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   598280 LUA: Param = 256 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   598529 LUA: Param = 512 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   598779 LUA: Param = 768 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   599044 LUA: Param = 1024 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   599294 LUA: Param = 1280 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   599543 LUA: Param = 1536 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   599793 LUA: Param = 1792 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   600042 LUA: Param = 2048 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   600292 LUA: Param = 2304 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   600542 LUA: Param = 2560 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   600807 LUA: Param = 2816 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   601056 LUA: Param = 3072 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   601306 LUA: Param = 3328 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   601556 LUA: Param = 3584 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   601805 LUA: Param = 3840 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   602055 LUA: Param = 4096 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   602320 LUA: Param = 4352 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   602570 LUA: Param = 4608 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   602819 LUA: Param = 4864 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   603069 LUA: Param = 5120 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   603318 LUA: Param = 5376 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   603568 LUA: Param = 5632 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   603833 LUA: Param = 5888 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   604083 LUA: Param = 6144 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   604332 LUA: Param = 6400 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   604582 LUA: Param = 6656 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   604832 LUA: Param = 6912 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   605081 LUA: Param = 7168 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   605331 LUA: Param = 7424 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   605580 LUA: Param = 7680 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   605846 LUA: Param = 7936 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   606095 LUA: Param = 8192 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   606345 LUA: Param = 8448 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   606594 LUA: Param = 8704 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   606844 LUA: Param = 8960 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   607094 LUA: Param = 9216 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   607343 LUA: Param = 9472 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   607608 LUA: Param = 9728 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   607858 LUA: Param = 9984 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   608108 LUA: Param = 10240 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   608357 LUA: Param = 10496 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   608607 LUA: Param = 10752 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   608857 LUA: Param = 11008 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   609106 LUA: Param = 11264 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   609371 LUA: Param = 11520 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   609621 LUA: Param = 11776 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   609871 LUA: Param = 12032 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   610120 LUA: Param = 12288 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   610370 LUA: Param = 12544 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   610619 LUA: Param = 12800 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   610869 LUA: Param = 13056 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   611134 LUA: Param = 13312 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   611384 LUA: Param = 13568 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   611633 LUA: Param = 13824 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   611883 LUA: Param = 14080 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   612133 LUA: Param = 14336 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   612382 LUA: Param = 14592 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   612632 LUA: Param = 14848 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   612897 LUA: Param = 15104 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   613147 LUA: Param = 15360 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   613396 LUA: Param = 15616 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   613646 LUA: Param = 15872 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   613895 LUA: Param = 16128 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   614145 LUA: Param = 16384 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   614395 LUA: ended "G:\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Modules\TestFlaps.lua"
   614395 System time = 14:27:44, FSX time = 08:23:27 (21:23Z)
********* LUA execution terminated: Log Closed *********

It looks strange because the flap lever did indeed step through all the flap settings from Up, 1, 5, 10, 20, 25, and 30. However the log looks like it only did 6 steps.

[John Veldthuis]

I also note that if I do not use the calibration then it works fine as well giving all the selections but it is the wrong way to what I want the lever to do. If I send it to calibration then it misses the flaps 25 again.

[Pete Dowson]

Okay I did the test flaps and got the following output.

...

614145 LUA: Param = 16384 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5

...

It looks strange because the flap lever did indeed step through all the flap settings from Up, 1, 5, 10, 20, 25, and 30. However the log looks like it only did 6 steps.

This is even more puzzling. The maximum for the reported position of the Flap Lever by SimConnect was 13653, which, on the default 747, equates to Flaps 25.

Maybe you need to move that Sleep and increase it substantially. Maybe the Flaps readings I'm getting back are more delayed with the PMDG. Try and increment of 512 instead of 256 and increase the Sleep to 1000 (1 second between each) -- and move the Sleep line to just after the Control line, so it now looks like this:

n = -16384
while n < 16384 do
   n = n + 512
   ipc.control(66534, n)
   ipc.sleep(1000)
   flapctrl = ipc.readUW(0x0BDC)
   flapindex = ipc.readUB(0x0BFC)
   ipc.log(string.format("Param = %d gives Handle = %d and Flap Index %d", n, flapctrl, flapindex))
end

Oh, one other idea. If you go to the Logging tab and disable the Lua logging but select the Log console display, then run FSX in Windowed mode with the console log display visible as well as the Throttle Quadrant, you will see the log entries from the Lua program at the same time as the lever moves and you can make a note of which line (by time, very left on each line) equates to which visible position.

I've really currently got no idea how to solve this. I hope we get some useful, non-conflicting, information.

Anyway, you just caught me before bed. It's nearly 3 am here. I'll be out tomorrow.

Regards

Pete

[John Veldthuis]

Tried again and got the following this time.

********* LUA: "TestFlaps" Log [from FSUIPC version 4.327] *********
   149402 System time = 16:15:29, FSX time = 10:14:03 (23:14Z)
   149402 LUA: beginning "G:\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Modules\TestFlaps.lua"
   150463 LUA: Param = -15872 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   151508 LUA: Param = -15360 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   152506 LUA: Param = -14848 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   153505 LUA: Param = -14336 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   154519 LUA: Param = -13824 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   155517 LUA: Param = -13312 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   156547 LUA: Param = -12800 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   157607 LUA: Param = -12288 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   158637 LUA: Param = -11776 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   159682 LUA: Param = -11264 gives Handle = 0 and Flap Index 0
   160681 LUA: Param = -10752 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   161695 LUA: Param = -10240 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   162709 LUA: Param = -9728 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   163723 LUA: Param = -9216 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   164737 LUA: Param = -8704 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   165751 LUA: Param = -8192 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   166765 LUA: Param = -7680 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   167794 LUA: Param = -7168 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   168824 LUA: Param = -6656 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   169869 LUA: Param = -6144 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   170899 LUA: Param = -5632 gives Handle = 2731 and Flap Index 1
   171897 LUA: Param = -5120 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   172911 LUA: Param = -4608 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   173910 LUA: Param = -4096 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   174924 LUA: Param = -3584 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   175922 LUA: Param = -3072 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   176936 LUA: Param = -2560 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   177934 LUA: Param = -2048 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   178948 LUA: Param = -1536 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   179947 LUA: Param = -1024 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   180961 LUA: Param = -512 gives Handle = 5461 and Flap Index 2
   181959 LUA: Param = 0 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   182973 LUA: Param = 512 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   183987 LUA: Param = 1024 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   184986 LUA: Param = 1536 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   186000 LUA: Param = 2048 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   186998 LUA: Param = 2560 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   187996 LUA: Param = 3072 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   189010 LUA: Param = 3584 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   190009 LUA: Param = 4096 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   191023 LUA: Param = 4608 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   192021 LUA: Param = 5120 gives Handle = 8192 and Flap Index 3
   193035 LUA: Param = 5632 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   194034 LUA: Param = 6144 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   195048 LUA: Param = 6656 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   196046 LUA: Param = 7168 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   197060 LUA: Param = 7680 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   198058 LUA: Param = 8192 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   199072 LUA: Param = 8704 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   200071 LUA: Param = 9216 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   201085 LUA: Param = 9728 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   202083 LUA: Param = 10240 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   203097 LUA: Param = 10752 gives Handle = 10922 and Flap Index 4
   204127 LUA: Param = 11264 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   205125 LUA: Param = 11776 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   206139 LUA: Param = 12288 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   207138 LUA: Param = 12800 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   208152 LUA: Param = 13312 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   209150 LUA: Param = 13824 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   210164 LUA: Param = 14336 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   211163 LUA: Param = 14848 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   212177 LUA: Param = 15360 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   213237 LUA: Param = 15872 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   214236 LUA: Param = 16384 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6
   214236 LUA: ended "G:\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Modules\TestFlaps.lua"
   214236 System time = 16:16:34, FSX time = 10:15:08 (23:15Z)
********* LUA execution terminated: Log Closed *********

The visible changes occur exactly when the Flap Index changes each time.

The extremely strange thing about this is that it was working 100% and the only changes have been to update to the latest version each time. I may try going back a few versions to see if this fixes it.

----LATER

I went back and installed 4.318 and tested again the flaps and it went through the full range. Tried 4.322 and tried that but it would only get to flaps 25. No flaps 30. Went back to 4.318 and full range back. Tried 4.316 and again it gave the full range of flaps. I did notice that with 4.316 and 4.318 that the flaps 1 comes on between the position where the flaps 1 comes on in the later versions.

Something must have changed between 4.318 and 4.322 that has caused this issue.

[Pete Dowson]

Got back early so before I have to go out again I'm catching up a bit.

Tried again and got the following this time.

Aha! At least it sohws clearly how it gets to full flaps:

   213237 LUA: Param = 15872 gives Handle = 13653 and Flap Index 5
   214236 LUA: Param = 16384 gives Handle = 16383 and Flap Index 6

So even values as high as 15872 still only give Flaps 25, despite the proper spacing which should be allowed being, what was it? 5460. I would have expected and hoped for at least half of that be allowed for Flaps 30!

The visible changes occur exactly when the Flap Index changes each time.

Well, that's one good thing, anyway. At least that means the PMDG modelling hasn't destroyed the relationship between its flap positions and the SimConnect indices.

Something must have changed between 4.318 and 4.322 that has caused this issue.

Hmm. Could be a side effect of some corrections to make flaps work properly on some of the default aircraft. Maybe my adjustment by 128 -- the one now giving the uneven increments.

I can't keep changing things back and forth, fixing one and breaking another. I need to look for a solution that works for everything. I'll examine your figures more closely, see what I can come up with.

[LATER]

After a cursory glance through those last results, and comparing it with the values FSUIPC sends out, I see that each of my selections are right on the lowest edge of the ranges PMDG computes! Very dodgy. Maybe it worked before, but it must have been a close shave!

It appears as if, rather than selecting ranges where the central value is the one with the correct 5461 increment, they've used that increment to determine the CHANGEOVER point! Seems to deliberately be made critical! I would guess that they never even bothered to look at how FS itself interpreted the values! Very sloppy programming in my opinion -- surprising for PMDG!

I'll experiment with making my choices, instead of near central to me computed ranges, something like 75% of the way though. That should put them safely within the lower half the PMDG ranges without upsetting any other aircraft. At the same time I'll force 0 flaps to be minimum value and full flaps to be maximum - they obviously allow no leeway at all in the latter case!

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I'll experiment with making my choices, instead of near central to me computed ranges, something like 75% of the way though. That should put them safely within the lower half the PMDG ranges without upsetting any other aircraft. At the same time I'll force 0 flaps to be minimum value and full flaps to be maximum

This is exactly what I've done in version 4.328, now available in the FSX Downloads announcement.

I've tested it with most FSX default aircraft, and I even managed to find and install a copy of the PMDG 747X which Lefteris sent me a while back when we were testing the effects of turbulence on the LNAV function. It seems to work fine with that too now! (I forgot i had it -- I searched my archives and there it was! ).

Regards

Pete

[John Veldthuis]

Thanks, That certainly fixed things up for me and have full range of flaps selectable again.

Much appreciated.