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Kelvin C-J

Am I doing Something Wrong..?

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Hello Everyone,

I have just purchased and activated FSUIPC 3.93 for FS9.

The main reason why I purchased said item, was to get accurate time keeping in FS as mine was seriously out of sync.

- The seconds update and sync with my computer fine, however, if I pause the simulator for a minute or so; the minutes remain the same, but the seconds do update.

Is this to be expected..? Or, am I doing something wrong..?

If that is the case, kind of annoying then!

As I will have wasted about £20! - Unless the weather features really do impress me as I'm running REX for FS9.

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The main reason why I purchased said item, was to get accurate time keeping in FS as mine was seriously out of sync.

How strange? I never thought anyone would be so serious about time synchronisation that they'd actually spend real money on it! ;-) Maybe you could have used the free copy of FSRealTime, instead, to do that -- if it is still available. I think it still works free but with nags and ads till you buy it.

The seconds update and sync with my computer fine, however, if I pause the simulator for a minute or so; the minutes remain the same, but the seconds do update.

Er, sorry? I don't understand. Are you seeing the FS clock update whilst FS is paused? I've just tried that and it's now been paused for several minutes and the seconds hasn't changed yet. Which surprises me actually, because there's no code explicitly in FSUIPC to avoid correcting the seconds whilst paused -- there never seemed a need, because as soon as you unpaused it would need to try and correct the value in any case.

What would you expect FSUIPC to do with the clock whilst paused? And why would you need it to whatever it is you want? Obviously I am missing something here. I can explicitly check for FS paused and avoid the correction, but (a) I don't see if happening here in any case, and (b) I don't understand why it would be useful.

One thing I have noted, watching it, is that it only attempts to correct every couple of minutes or so. That should be enough to keep it in sync normally, but obviously not if you pause often. I could make it do the correction more often if there's a need.

It also doesn't attempt to sync if you run FS as slow or fast speeds, only at the x1 speed.

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete,

Thanks for the quick reply.

Yep - I did mainly buy it just for the time features!

The reason being that the FS time, no matter when i set it, kept updating by hours and minutes just by itself.

If I started a flight at 0800, the FS time would read 0800.

When I reached my destination, at 1200 real time, FS would read 1605 or something ridiculous.

That's the main reason why I bought it so i would know when to arrive; I can't fly to the USA in real time, and be told the curent time is 1805 when in reality it is 1630.. that messes up the FMC and daylight settings etc.

Another reason for the purchase was for the weather benefits.. I'm using REX as aforementioned so I hope it will aid with that.

And, I ONLY fly addon aircraft with FMC's etc so thought it may in some-way help with them.

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Also with regard to your questions about pausing.

I wasn't expecting it to update, of course not.

However, I was expecting the clock to sync back with the real time. - Not just update the seconds, but update the minutes as-well.

- This is also evident if I start a flight ahead of the current time, to take loading pausing etc into account; it will sync the seconds, but not the minutes.

- Rather odd seeing 08:34:32 and then updating the seconds (not minutes) to 08:34:06.

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The reason being that the FS time, no matter when i set it, kept updating by hours and minutes just by itself.

Really? I've never nor heard of anything like that! The only reason for the FSUIPC feature is to make up for a slow creep of FS's time over a period, where it falls further and further behind (or is it ahead? I don't remember) real time. The mechanism it uses is simply to update the seconds reading now and then so that FS updates the minutes correctly. FSUIPC3 does not touch the hours or minutes.

If I started a flight at 0800, the FS time would read 0800.

When I reached my destination, at 1200 real time, FS would read 1605 or something ridiculous.

Local time or Zulu? Where are you reading this? Don't forget the local time will update across time zones.

If you do really mean the Zulu (GMT or UTC) time, then quite honestly I don't know what to advise you. I've never heard of any bug or problem in any version of FS which will cause a drift anything like that.

I wasn't expecting it to update, of course not.

Well, there's no code to stop it, but I had to leave my FS9 on Pause for a good 10 minutes before it did.

However, I was expecting the clock to sync back with the real time. - Not just update the seconds, but update the minutes as-well.

But that would be totally wrong. If you pause FS you STOP time as far as the FS world is concerned. If I attempted to resync to the year/day/hours/minutes/seconds when you unpaused, all that time paused would appear as part of your flight time, which would certainly be wrong. And many folks fly at a different time of day in FS than the real time of day -- for instance, so that they can do daylight flying despite only being at their PCs at night. They shouldn't be deprived of the facility to keep the ELAPSED flight time correct, should they? This is what the FSUIPC facility is for.

This is also evident if I start a flight ahead of the current time, to take loading pausing etc into account; it will sync the seconds, but not the minutes.

But it is exactly as it is described in the FSUIPC documentation. It uses the seconds to keep the minutes running at the correct changeover rate. But it doesn't correct minutes changed by reason of pausing or simply using a different time in FS to reality.

What you probably really wanted is that FSRealTime program, which can do exactly what you want, and more -- it aalso llows for flying in non-realtime but with all parts synch'ed by providing an offset setting.

- Rather odd seeing 08:34:32 and then updating the seconds (not minutes) to 08:34:06.

Why? That is how FSUIPC keeps the FS updates in line with passing real time. It is just doing its job. It would only be doing that the once, mostly you'd see maybe a 1-3 second jump now and then, depending how much the drift is and how often FSUIPC adjusts it.

Regards

Pete

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Currently the real time is 1308 and FS is reading 1335.

But when did you last set it? FS often sets the time from the Flight's being loaded (depending on options set). It also takes a while loading stuff and doing other things than actually simulating time passing. Here, if i want to fly with real time (so my real cockpit clocks show the same Zulu as on the CDU and EICAS) I have to synchronize its clock (using FSRealTime) when everything is loaded and ready to fly. After that it only goes wonky if i start using menus or pausing etc -- but then it is slow, of course, not fast. I don't believe I've ever seen Fs run noticeably fast, I seem to remember it lost time, not gained. But I might be mistaken.

Of course, if you are running FS at x2 or x4 etc, its clock will be getting fast quite quickly. Maybe you have the sim rate set unknowingly? (Though that sounds unlikely, you never know! ;-) )

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete,

Nope; I run FS @ default x1 simulation speed.

I knowingly set FS time ahead of real time incase I pause or plan a route via the map etc.. to make up for that 'lost' time.

As an update, Time now 1343 and FS says 1425.

The original 28 minute difference has now increased to 42 minutes.

I've no idea what is going on!

I have edited the default flight but I don't think that would affect the time, at all..?

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As an update, Time now 1343 and FS says 1425.

Wow! So, FS is running about 40% faster (gaining 15 minutes in that 35 minute interval)!

As far as I recall, FS9 uses the basic Windows-supplied "tick" of 55 mSecs (i.e. just over 18 ticks per second) to update its internal "real time clock". it doesn't read any real clocks, of course, because in the FS world everything is relative. Time stops, slows down, speeds up, etc, according to what the user does. So FS simply accumulates the time in increments based on these ticks (or multiples of them for 2x, 4x etc). Even though it uses a reasonably accurate floating point value for the increment, it isn't accurate enough to stop the very slow drift which the FSUIPC facility is there to correct for.

So, I think something set in your system is making the Windows system ticks a lot shorter than 55 msecs. About 38 mSecs in fact.

I've no idea what is going on!

Nor I, but I now think it is your system, not in FS.

Regards

Pete

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Pete.

I agree, does seem very weird.

Now:

Real time:1419

FS:1517

Any idea of what it could be at all..?

I have disabled some services but none which help time..?

Actually, it's now at the point where it is an hour ahead of the real time.

I don't know how it is possible to just skip an hour..?

It's strange though because the seconds update as expected and so do the minutes, so I have no idea at all.

In the default cessna, the seconds were updating to 60 as expected and then the minute updates etc. in the Level-d 767 at the moment.

If it helps at all:

I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit.

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Any idea of what it could be at all..?

No, but doing some research on MS websites I see that most folks seem to think that the "GetTickCount" resolution, which used to be about 55 mSecs in Windows versions till Windows 98/Me, appears to by nearer 1 mSec these days, but with a possible 10% error.

I can't remember exactly what the FS9 code does now, nor where to hack in to find it, but it is just possible that things have changed since the assumptions they might have made about it were true. I'm running FS9 now for 30 minutes on my Win7 64-bit system t see if that is so inaccurate. If it has changed over the years I wouldn't have noticed because (a) I don't use FS9 any more, and (b) I always have the FSUIPC sync option set.

I'll check FSX as well when the 30 minutes are up.

If FS9's clock is accelerating away it is possible that the FSUIPC sync facility won't cope the way it is set now. It's frequency of updates assumed a slow drift, not a runaway. However, you did say it was okay, you only seemed to be complaining about the Pause as far as I could see. Is that so or am I misinterpreting you?

Regards

Pete

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It's strange though because the seconds update as expected and so do the minutes, so I have no idea at all.

Sorry, I missed that bit.

And I don't understand it. If you see the minutes and seconds keeping in line, when do they go out of line. Do you mean they only go wrong when you're not watching them?

Pete

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Hi Pete.

Found some interesting information for you.

Before I closed Internet Explorer down, the time was exactly one hour difference.

Exactly after I closed Internet Explorer down, the FS time increased by 2 minutes. -1h02 difference.

I thought that was odd.

So, I tried it again, tried just starting up and shutting down; no difference.

However, if I am using the internet tab/window and leave it open longer than 5 minutes say, the FS times skips ahead by two minutes. - After I waited with it open, browsing etc, I personally wittnessed the time jump from 31 minutes to 33 minutes and then to 34 minutes immediately after - (possibly time update, from 33 to 34?).

Perhaps this is the problem..?

Although, I don't see how it managed to jump ahead by an hour, when I haven't been on the internet for that long.

But, I do open up internet explorer every now and again, causing a jump..?

Might this be the problem..?

Doing other things while using FS..?!

So in relation to your question: yes, it appears to go out of sync when it isn't the active window.

During my posting, it skipped ahead by another 2-4 minutes.

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Found some interesting information for you.

Good, because mine is pretty boring: the time in FS after 30 minutes was still correct, at least to the nearest minute (and that's without the FSUIPC option running). So it isn't a sudden Windows change in the "tick" interval.

Perhaps this is the problem..?

Obviously something must be happening to the mechanism FS uses to count time when IE is running. Maybe IE changes something in Windows which causes the tick interval to decrease.

I haven't used IE for years. My choice is FireFox, and I was using it the whole time FS9 was running in my test 30 minutes. Anyway, on my flying PCs (this is my test and development one), I wouldn't be using anything other than FS.

So in relation to your question: yes, it appears to go out of sync when it isn't the active window.

I don't think that's it, as I've just done that and noticed no problem in FS's clock after 30 minutes of using FireFox.

Try using a different Internet browser. Maybe it's a bug only in IE8?

Regards

Pete

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Well, I just monitored it for about 10 minutes.

Without doing anything else.

With only FS running, nothing else? I doubt if it's related just to what you are doing.

Seems this problem is unfixable!

Well, you can try FSRealTime. It will do the job. But there's a catch. If it ever has to correct times by more than a minute, FS will reload textures, causing a hesitation in the timeflow in any case, and a progress bar on screen.

Pete

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Hi Pete.

Thank you very much for your help and support. It's appreciated.

I've found out that to put it simply. every x minutes, the FS time increases by 2.

It is about every 10 minutes, the FS times increases by 2 minutes, regardless of whether it is the only thing running etc.

However, I'm still totally clueless as to what the problem might be and how to fix it!

I suppose I had better get used to random FS time!! - A shame really.

I used to use Google Chrome but I can't believe it is IE8, when the problem still occurs when just FS is running.

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I've found out that to put it simply. every x minutes, the FS time increases by 2.

It is about every 10 minutes, the FS times increases by 2 minutes, regardless of whether it is the only thing running etc.

Very strange. Is this with the FSUIPC facility turned on or off? Have you tried it off if on or vice versa?

I used to use Google Chrome but I can't believe it is IE8, when the problem still occurs when just FS is running.

True, as IE8 is installed here too, just never used. My FS9 test is still running -- it is now about 1 minute slow!

Regards

Pete

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Atleast one minute slow isn't a matter as such.

Mine is 1 hour and 30 minutes ahead of the real time!

I didn't know you could turn FSUIPC 'on' or 'off' but I would be inclined to believe it is 'on' as the seconds do update.

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I didn't know you could turn FSUIPC 'on' or 'off'

Not "turn FSUIPC on or off", but the option, the clock sync option, which is OFF by default! It is on the Miscellaneous tab. I thought that was what you posted here about in the first place!

Pete

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Yep - it's on and no difference has been made.

I bought / registered FSUIPC as I thought that might solve the problem; it hasn't.

So, I'm back to square one!

Oh well.

Thanks for your help, time and effort anyway Pete.

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I bought / registered FSUIPC as I thought that might solve the problem; it hasn't.

Because your problem is that the minutes are jumping -- FSUIPC doesn't synchronise the minutes directly. Doing so tends to cause texture reloads, as I said, and that simply is not acceptable when flying. FSUIPC does keep the time synchronised against FS's tendency to run slightly slow, and it does this, as documented, by keeping the seconds correct. That normally allows the minutes to stay correct on their own. It cannot deal with the odd 2 minute jump you are seeing, and, as I said, I don't know why you are seeing that nor how it happens. It doesn't happen here and I've not heard any one else report it.

Assuming it isn't some sort of FS9 corruption, or some other Add-On you've forgotten about, then it must surely be some background process or service running in you system -- maybe something to do with virus checkers or firewalls?

My FS9 test is still running and it's now lost 2 minutes (with the FSUIPC sync option off, that is). That's pretty much what I expected.

Regards

Pete

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Hi Pete,

I don't know either.

I keep services running to a minimum . i.e only the essentials running. Can't be that..?

I don't think I have a virus or anything but haven't scanned or checked as no software other than Windows Defender is installed.

Firewall is Windows Default and all FS exceptions are given.

It is really odd that everyone else loses time yet I, for some reason, gain 2 hours out of nowhere!

The addons I have installed are:

Level-d 767

Flight1 ATR

FsPassengers

PSS 777

PMDG 737, 747

Wilco Airbus and Boeing Classics

E-Jets

Feelthere Embraer v2

And REX.

That's all. - The only other things installed on my system are the Windows defaults.

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It is really odd that everyone else loses time yet I, for some reason, gain 2 hours out of nowhere!

Yes, it is, and I'm out of ideas. You might want to post that point on the FSX forum, here and in AVSIM, to see if anyone else has any ideas.

Regards

Pete

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I don't think there's much point as I haven't seen anything like this at all posted anywhere.

What I'll do is after I finish my current flight, I'll download FSRealtime and see if that helps. - Theoretically, it should . as it only increases by 2 minutes every 10 minutes, and that can update every minute so it should resolve all issues..?

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