How to suppress negative axis values?

[baw19]

Hi Peter,

I recently got a new flightsim PC and am having huge flutter problems on my axis inputs. I've found that the Filter option on the FSUIPC axis tabs helps a great deal to supress these but I'm still getting a peculiar problem that you may be able to help with?

I'm using FSUIPC v4.728 and have used it to calibrate my axiis (Spoilers, Flaps and Throttles 1 and 2). All axiis have the Filter option switched on and none are using the Slope option. Both throttles have the No Reverser Zone option selected but the reversers randomly deploy even when I'm idling the engines at the gate. I've tried tweaking the FSUIPC.INI file, setting the reverser zone to 0,1 even though No Reverser Zone is still selected, but I'm still getting the reversers deploying now and then while I'm taxiing, even after a full FSX restart.

I took a look at the FSUIPC log and was surprised to see negative values on all the axiis - I'd assumed that once I'd calibrated these FSUIPC would only send positive values to FSX. I'm wondering if the flutter is so wild that it's causing negatives to slip through the net and wondered if you could add a further filter option to completely suppress any negative values that might be triggering the reversers?

Here's an extract from the log, it shows only the axis activity and because of the flutter problem it was originally quite long so I've cut it down to highlight the bad values (at least what I'm assuming are bad values!).

Many thanks for anything you can suggest or do to help.

My best as always,

Ian

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.728 by Pete Dowson *********

User Name="Ian Niblo"

User Addr="my.shopping@blueyonder.co.uk"

FSUIPC4 Key is provided

WideFS7 Key is provided

[Continuation log requested by user]

Running inside FSX (using SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)

Module base=61000000

Wind smoothing fix is fully installed

642703 System time = 15/09/2011 08:43:41, Simulator time = 16:17:14 (15:17Z)

642703 LogOptions changed, now 10000000 00000001

642968 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 60 (0x0000003c) THROTTLE2_SET

643000 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 27 (0x0000001b) THROTTLE2_SET

643062 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 12 (0x0000000c) THROTTLE2_SET

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751265 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 86 (0x00000056) THROTTLE1_SET

751265 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 15 (0x0000000f) THROTTLE2_SET

751328 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 39 (0x00000027) THROTTLE1_SET

751328 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 7 (0x00000007) THROTTLE2_SET

751328 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= -16123 (0xffffc105) THROTTLE2_SET

751406 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 18 (0x00000012) THROTTLE1_SET

751406 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3 (0x00000003) THROTTLE2_SET

751437 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 8 (0x00000008) THROTTLE1_SET

751437 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1 (0x00000001) THROTTLE2_SET

751500 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4 (0x00000004) THROTTLE1_SET

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860140 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2 (0x00000002) THROTTLE2_SET

860218 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1 (0x00000001) THROTTLE2_SET

860250 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET

860953 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 141 (0x0000008d) THROTTLE2_SET

860953 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= -16384 (0xffffc000) THROTTLE2_SET

861000 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 207 (0x000000cf) THROTTLE2_SET

861062 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 236 (0x000000ec) THROTTLE2_SET

861125 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 250 (0x000000fa) THROTTLE2_SET

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877890 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 18 (0x00000012) THROTTLE1_SET

877890 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET

877953 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 8 (0x00000008) THROTTLE1_SET

878015 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4 (0x00000004) THROTTLE1_SET

878015 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 66382 (0x0001034e), Param= -16384 (0xffffc000) AXIS_SPOILER_SET

878062 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2 (0x00000002) THROTTLE1_SET

878125 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1 (0x00000001) THROTTLE1_SET

878187 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET

879000 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 86 (0x00000056) THROTTLE1_SET

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1015015 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET

1015015 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET

1016453 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 71 (0x00000047) THROTTLE2_SET

1016515 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 32 (0x00000020) THROTTLE2_SET

1016515 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 66534 (0x000103e6), Param= -14834 (0xffffc60e) AXIS_FLAPS_SET

1016578 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 15 (0x0000000f) THROTTLE2_SET

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3198765 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 7 (0x00000007) THROTTLE2_SET

3198812 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3 (0x00000003) THROTTLE2_SET

3198875 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1 (0x00000001) THROTTLE2_SET

3198937 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET

3199015 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 2556 secs = 29.5 fps

3203797 LogOptions changed, now 00000000 00000001

[Pete Dowson]

I recently got a new flightsim PC and am having huge flutter problems on my axis inputs.

What devices are they? Home made or commercial? Unwanted jitter is almost always a result of bad pots, dirt (use a good electrical switch cleaner spray), high humidity, varying temperatures, or poor power supply. If they are connected to a hub try connecting direct or get a better powered hub. If already connected direct try different USB ports. Try to avoid using both of each pair of USB ports on the PC as those usually share chips internally.

I've found that the Filter option on the FSUIPC axis tabs helps a great deal to supress these but I'm still getting a peculiar problem that you may be able to help with?

Filtering is a last desperate resort really It was added to help out a very bad mains power situation and high humidity somewhere in the jungle in Thailand I think.

I'm using FSUIPC v4.728 and have used it to calibrate my axiis (Spoilers, Flaps and Throttles 1 and 2). All axiis have the Filter option switched on and none are using the Slope option. Both throttles have the No Reverser Zone option selected but the reversers randomly deploy even when I'm idling the engines at the gate. I've tried tweaking the FSUIPC.INI file, setting the reverser zone to 0,1 even though No Reverser Zone is still selected, but I'm still getting the reversers deploying now and then while I'm taxiing, even after a full FSX restart.

Something else must be doing that, then because calibrating with NRZ set can only ever result in a positive value being sent.

I took a look at the FSUIPC log and was surprised to see negative values on all the axis - I'd assumed that once I'd calibrated these FSUIPC would only send positive values to FSX. I'm wondering if the flutter is so wild that it's causing negatives to slip through the net and wondered if you could add a further filter option to completely suppress any negative values that might be triggering the reversers?

Those values can't be from FSUIPC's calibration, and that uses the entire possible input range -16k to +126k to map to 0 to +16k.

But please test with Filtering switched off to be sure that's not having an odd effect. I'm not sure the combination of filtering and NRZ has ever been tested very comprehensively. I would love to remove the filtering option altogether as it makes everything very complicated indeed. If it is a problem induce by the filtering code I'll need to fix it, so let me know.

The other possibility is that there are dual assignments and these are interacting with each other. You don't say where and how you have assigned things. Dual assignments will produce jitter and all sorts of other problems as the two different inputs conflict.

Regards

Pete

[baw19]

Hi Pete, I think you may be right about the Filter - I've turned it off and I'm not getting negatives now, thanks!

For the sake of anyone else who finds themselves here I'll post the answers to your questions:

What devices are they? Home made or commercial? Unwanted jitter is almost always a result of bad pots, dirt (use a good electrical switch cleaner spray), high humidity, varying temperatures, or poor power supply. If they are connected to a hub try connecting direct or get a better powered hub. If already connected direct try different USB ports. Try to avoid using both of each pair of USB ports on the PC as those usually share chips internally.

It's a home-made throttle quadrant using 10k linear pots plugged into a board that's plugged into a USB port on the back of my PC (to elliminate potential hub issues). The pots were replaced with new ones last week in an attempt to suppress the flutter but it didn't make much difference. Mind you they're Maplin pots so I shouldn't really expect flawless performance! Someone else has since suggested getting a better power supply which I may yet do. For info the pots show no flutter at all when connected to a voltmeter, it's only the software that shows flutter (including the Windows XP Game Controllers control panel).

But please test with Filtering switched off to be sure that's not having an odd effect. I'm not sure the combination of filtering and NRZ has ever been tested very comprehensively. I would love to remove the filtering option altogether as it makes everything very complicated indeed. If it is a problem induce by the filtering code I'll need to fix it, so let me know.

Yes, it does look a lot like that's the culprit. Having repeated the tests long and hard I'm not seeing negatives with Filter turned off.

The other possibility is that there are dual assignments and these are interacting with each other. You don't say where and how you have assigned things. Dual assignments will produce jitter and all sorts of other problems as the two different inputs conflict.

The axiis are assigned in FSUIPC "Send direct to FSUIPC calibration" - each axis to it's appropriate function eg Flap lever axis to Flaps. I don't use 3rd party software between the hardware and FSUIPC and I've thoroughly checked that no axis assignments have been made and forgotten about in the FSX Controls dialog. Interestingly the latest log shows a fairly reliable pattern of zero then value for each axis (presumably this is why the logs grow so large). I might expect this on the yoke axiis as they're dual control but the throttles have no other form of input so I'm not sure why I'm seeing these alternate values (see sample below). One thing that does occur to me is that I recently changed from using the single Throttle control (tab 1 in FSUIPC) to the individual throttle setting on tab 3. Although I've deselected the tab 1 stuff I wonder if it's possible that FSUIPC is now getting confused between the two? Just a thought.

Anyway, there you go - I'm not getting the reversers kicking in so I think I'm sorted. Thanks for your help again,

All the best

Ian

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.728 by Pete Dowson *********
User Name="Ian Niblo"
User Addr="my.shopping@blueyonder.co.uk"
FSUIPC4 Key is provided
WideFS7 Key is provided
[Continuation log requested by user]
Running inside FSX (using SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)
Module base=61000000
Wind smoothing fix is fully installed
   161750 System time = 15/09/2011 14:01:48, Simulator time = 16:09:22 (15:09Z)
   161750 LogOptions changed, now 10000000 00000001
   163188 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 318 (0x0000013e) THROTTLE1_SET
   163188 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 131 (0x00000083) THROTTLE2_SET
   163235 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   163235 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   163875 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 131 (0x00000083) THROTTLE2_SET
   163907 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   164016 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 159 (0x0000009f) THROTTLE1_SET
   164047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   164360 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 131 (0x00000083) THROTTLE2_SET
   164391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   164922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 159 (0x0000009f) THROTTLE1_SET
   164954 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   165125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 159 (0x0000009f) THROTTLE1_SET
   165157 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   165235 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 159 (0x0000009f) THROTTLE1_SET
   165266 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   166266 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 159 (0x0000009f) THROTTLE1_SET
   166266 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 131 (0x00000083) THROTTLE2_SET
   166297 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   166297 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   166672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 159 (0x0000009f) THROTTLE1_SET
   166704 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   166782 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 159 (0x0000009f) THROTTLE1_SET
   166813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete, I think you may be right about the Filter - I've turned it off and I'm not getting negatives now, thanks!

Okay. I'm listing that as a problem I'll have to investigate. Obviously the filtering should work okay. there's just such a lot of paths through the code when that's enabled, since things then happen asynchronously.

It's a home-made throttle quadrant using 10k linear pots plugged into a board that's plugged into a USB port on the back of my PC (to elliminate potential hub issues). The pots were replaced with new ones last week in an attempt to suppress the flutter but it didn't make much difference. Mind you they're Maplin pots so I shouldn't really expect flawless performance! Someone else has since suggested getting a better power supply which I may yet do. For info the pots show no flutter at all when connected to a voltmeter, it's only the software that shows flutter (including the Windows XP Game Controllers control panel).

Which board are you using? I've got a couple of Leo Bodnar's BU0836 cards and they seem to be very stable with decent pots.

The axiis are assigned in FSUIPC "Send direct to FSUIPC calibration"

Could you please try assignment in FSUIPC but to the FS control, just one one axis, and add the Filtering back and see if that gives you bad values. I'm hoping you can help narrow it down in case I can't reproduce it.

Interestingly the latest log shows a fairly reliable pattern of zero then value for each axis (presumably this is why the logs grow so large). I might expect this on the yoke axiis as they're dual control but the throttles have no other form of input so I'm not sure why I'm seeing these alternate values (see sample below).

What Delta are you using? I think with the default delta those non-zero values and 0 are within one change, so the input is probably jittering between them.

If you edit the FSUIPC4.INI file, adding these lines to the [General] section:

Debug=Please

LogExtras=x8

then we'll get a log more logging of the vlaues seen and processed.

One thing that does occur to me is that I recently changed from using the single Throttle control (tab 1 in FSUIPC) to the individual throttle setting on tab 3. Although I've deselected the tab 1 stuff I wonder if it's possible that FSUIPC is now getting confused between the two?

No, that should be okay.

Regards

Pete

[baw19]

Which board are you using? http:/www.ianniblo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/FSUIPIC_Logs_For Pete_Dowson.zipI've got a couple of Leo Bodnar's BU0836 cards and they seem to be very stable with decent pots.

I'm using the USBAxes card by Manuel Velez but I've ordered the BU0836 to see if that helps (thanks for the tip!).

Could you please try assignment in FSUIPC but to the FS control, just one one axis, and add the Filtering back and see if that gives you bad values. I'm hoping you can help narrow it down in case I can't reproduce it.

I've done this though I didn't get the same problem with negatives. Curiously all three logs have one negative value on the axis right at the top. However it's only the session "To FSUIPC Calibrated with Filtering" that gave subsequent negatives. In that session I was still getting the rogue Reverser deployment though I probably should have said that it's only a gentle amount - from the outside you can barely see the cowl open. All the same I've got NRZ selected so I guess any amount is bad! (Sorry, forgot to drop that in last time.)

What Delta are you using? I think with the default delta those non-zero values and 0 are within one change, so the input is probably jittering between them.

Just the default value - 256

If you edit the FSUIPC4.INI file, adding these lines to the [General] section:

Debug=Please

LogExtras=x8

then we'll get a log more logging of the vlaues seen and processed.

Okay - done that and you can review the logs here: http:/www.ianniblo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/FSUIPIC_Logs_For Pete_Dowson.zip. Hopefully the file names are meaningful enough. Please let me know if I can be of any more help - appreciate you looking at this!

All the best

Ian

[Pete Dowson]

I've done this though I didn't get the same problem with negatives.

So the filtering problem may only apply to the "direct to calibration" assignment method? Is that what it looks like? If so it narrows down the code I have to track through quite considerably.

Curiously all three logs have one negative value on the axis right at the top.

That's probably an initialisation quirk -- before any real values are provided. It won't normally be used as FSUIPC discards the first so-many inputs when first connecting to an axis.

Okay - done that and you can review the logs here: http:/www.ianniblo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/FSUIPIC_Logs_For Pete_Dowson.zip.

Thanks. I'll take a look.

[LATER]

Got them.

I'm only looking at the THROTTLE1 entries. Did you move the throttle 1 axis at all during these tests? I need to understand whether the changes are jitter or you, or one caused by the other. If you moved the throttle do you remember how -- i.e. up slowly and down, all the way, part way, etc?

In what should be the good case for Filtering you can see the filtering working, but the original joystick input is wavering a little. Here's a 600 mSec section all concerned with setting idle (-16384 --> 0) on throttle 1:

	35907 Axis 5X=-16384: Action=66420 (control to FSX)
	35907 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=66420, Param=-16384
	35907 ###JOY### Event seen, ID=65820 (0x0001011C), Joy=8, value=-16384 
	35907 ... Gone for filtering as axis 8, ctrl 65820=-16384
	35922 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-8848, Calibrated=3803
	35922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3803 (0x00000edb) THROTTLE1_SET
	35985 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-12918, Calibrated=1749
	35985 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
	36047 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-14789, Calibrated=804
	36047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 804 (0x00000324) THROTTLE1_SET
	36125 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-15650, Calibrated=370
	36125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 370 (0x00000172) THROTTLE1_SET
	36157 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-16046, Calibrated=170
	36157 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 170 (0x000000aa) THROTTLE1_SET
	36188 Axis 5X=-16068: Action=66420 (control to FSX)
	36188 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=66420, Param=-16068
	36188 ###JOY### Event seen, ID=65820 (0x0001011C), Joy=8, value=-16068 
	36188 ... Gone for filtering as axis 8, ctrl 65820=-16068
	36219 Axis 5X=-16384: Action=66420 (control to FSX)
	36219 FS Control Sent: Ctrl=66420, Param=-16384
	36219 ###JOY### Event seen, ID=65820 (0x0001011C), Joy=8, value=-16384 
	36219 ... Gone for filtering as axis 8, ctrl 65820=-16384
	36219 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-16228, Calibrated=78
	36219 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 78 (0x0000004e) THROTTLE1_SET
	36297 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-16312, Calibrated=35
	36297 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 35 (0x00000023) THROTTLE1_SET
	36360 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-16350, Calibrated=16
	36360 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 16 (0x00000010) THROTTLE1_SET
	36422 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-16368, Calibrated=7
	36422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 7 (0x00000007) THROTTLE1_SET
	36500 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-16376, Calibrated=3
	36500 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3 (0x00000003) THROTTLE1_SET
	36532 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-16380, Calibrated=1
	36532 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1 (0x00000001) THROTTLE1_SET
	36594 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-16382, Calibrated=0
	36594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET

You can see the original axis values, for your analog card, in lines like

35907 Axis 5X=-16384

This should result eventually in a setting of 0 on the THROTTLE1_SET control eventually set, but the filtering smooths the change from some previous value in lines 35922 to 36157, nearly reaching 0 (taking 250 mSecs so far) when we get another, different, reading from the Axis:

36188 Axis 5X=-16068:

The change is greater than the delta of 256, so it takes longer again. These are the jitters you see in the unfiltered case which should look reasonably smooth (but not totally) with a working filtering action, as here.

If all the jitters are less than, say, 512, then you could change the Delta to remove them, and so do away with filtering, which as you see does slow response down a little. That matters less with throttles than aileron/elevator of course, but it is still not always wanted, especially if the aircraft model also builds in some realistic latency.

The non-filtered log also shows the jitter, probably more plainly. The differences seem to be consistent there at 315, very close to the 314 difference above. This suggests that this is about the resolution of the hardware you are using -- 315 over a range of 32738, or only 104 possible steps max, and with jitter only 52 really. A Delta of 512 would be quite appropriate I think.

The case of filtering with Direct Axis assignment is interesting. I've extracted a few relevant lines:

	89938 Axis 5X=-11027: Action=9 (direct to calib)
	89938 ... Gone for filtering as axis 8, ctrl 65820=-11027
	89984 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-11230, Calibrated=2601
	90047 Axis 5X=-11342: Action=9 (direct to calib)
	90047 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-11120, Calibrated=2656
	90047 Axis calibration: Control=65820, Original=-11342, Calibrated=-11342

Oddly the second 5X input did not "go for filtering", and it was that one which resulted in the -ve value to the throttle it went through with no processing at all!

I think this helps me sort out the filtering a lot, so thanks1

Regards

Pete

[baw19]

Hi Pete,

I'm only looking at the THROTTLE1 entries. Did you move the throttle 1 axis at all during these tests? I need to understand whether the changes are jitter or you, or one caused by the other. If you moved the throttle do you remember how -- i.e. up slowly and down, all the way, part way, etc?

Yes - although I left the throttles alone for much of the test I deliberately moved them around to try to get the reversers to deploy. This is why the logs are so large - I felt it important to leave them idling for a long time as well as including some range of manual changes. Usually this would be a slow throttle-up in the lower ranges (I only notice the reverser problem when idling or taxiing) though occasionally I'd close the throttles quite rapidly to see if that had an effect. So all the major ranges of movement will be me not the jitters.

A Delta of 512 would be quite appropriate I think.

Thanks, I'll give this a try and let you know if it helps, in the meantime do let me know if you need anything else.

Ian

[Pete Dowson]

in the meantime do let me know if you need anything else.

Found the cause of the leaking uncalibrated value, thanks to your logging. It happens when a new arrival from the joystick calls the filtering mechanism whilst the previous value is still being processed. It's a re-entrancy problem. Rather than solve it with semaphores, which can cause jerky behaviour because of lockouts, I've rearranged the code a bit so it doesn't happen.

I just hope I've not messed anything up by doing this. The code in that area is very old and has become quite convoluted over time. It's the same in both FSUIPC3 and FSUIPC4.

If you'd like to re-test in your several different ways I'd be grateful. Download FSUIPC 4.728c.

Thanks,

Pete

[baw19]

Hi Pete, I've run some more tests using the replacement DLL and the new logs can be found at http:/www.ianniblo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/FSUIPC4728c_Logs_For_Pete_Dowson.zip* however there are several more logs that yesterday as the plot thickens!

Yesterday I think we figured that the rogue reverser deployment could be elliminated simply by removing the axis filters but with the test DLL and using 512 as a Delta I'm getting the problem even with no Filter on any axiis. The log FSUIPC4728c_To_FSUIPC_Calib_No_Filter_Delta_512.log is littered with negatives and I wonder if that's symptomatic?

Let me know if I can do anything more to help!

All the best

Ian

* Sorry - can't seem to get the forum Linking to work!

[Pete Dowson]

Yesterday I think we figured that the rogue reverser deployment could be elliminated simply by removing the axis filters but with the test DLL and using 512 as a Delta I'm getting the problem even with no Filter on any axiis. The log FSUIPC4728c_To_FSUIPC_Calib_No_Filter_Delta_512.log is littered with negatives and I wonder if that's symptomatic?

It's probably because the "fix" I put in 4.728c for the one case wrecks the others. Could you go back to 4.728b and see if you can force that to give your negatives without filtering?

[LATER]

I've searched through ALL of the logs in your new batch, and I cannot find even one instance of an incorrect negative. All of the negative values actually sent to FS were for AXIS_... type controls, for which the range is -16k to +16k in any case. Here, I sorted the log you mentioned and extracted all of the commands sending throttle values to FS: see, no negatives!

	95891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   253688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
	46469 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
	81359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   119422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   191234 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET
   143484 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1113 (0x00000459) THROTTLE1_SET
   230656 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1113 (0x00000459) THROTTLE1_SET
   224266 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1113 (0x00000459) THROTTLE1_SET
   197109 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1272 (0x000004f8) THROTTLE1_SET
   143656 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1431 (0x00000597) THROTTLE1_SET
   230797 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1431 (0x00000597) THROTTLE1_SET
   253391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1431 (0x00000597) THROTTLE1_SET
   191156 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1431 (0x00000597) THROTTLE1_SET
   224203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1431 (0x00000597) THROTTLE1_SET
   224438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 159 (0x0000009f) THROTTLE1_SET
   197156 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1590 (0x00000636) THROTTLE1_SET
   244438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   230891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   248422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   191125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   242703 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   248250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   244844 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   247984 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   224172 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1749 (0x000006d5) THROTTLE1_SET
   143766 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 1908 (0x00000774) THROTTLE1_SET
   179563 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   230969 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   171625 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   223078 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   220781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   242156 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   248016 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   247813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   248313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   243047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   244578 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2067 (0x00000813) THROTTLE1_SET
   197219 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2226 (0x000008b2) THROTTLE1_SET
   169953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2226 (0x000008b2) THROTTLE1_SET
   191094 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2226 (0x000008b2) THROTTLE1_SET
   219563 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   185719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   179594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   143828 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   170875 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   189016 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   219016 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   220000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   231031 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   219328 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   231141 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   242063 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   177313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   221531 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   171688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2385 (0x00000951) THROTTLE1_SET
   154375 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2544 (0x000009f0) THROTTLE1_SET
   165313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2544 (0x000009f0) THROTTLE1_SET
   147375 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2544 (0x000009f0) THROTTLE1_SET
   188547 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   239406 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   189188 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   231109 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   219469 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   216781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   241953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   241047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   185688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   231813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   219594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   241859 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2703 (0x00000a8f) THROTTLE1_SET
   177250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2862 (0x00000b2e) THROTTLE1_SET
   144000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2862 (0x00000b2e) THROTTLE1_SET
   147406 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2862 (0x00000b2e) THROTTLE1_SET
   164000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2862 (0x00000b2e) THROTTLE1_SET
   157047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2862 (0x00000b2e) THROTTLE1_SET
   170844 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 2862 (0x00000b2e) THROTTLE1_SET
   241078 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3021 (0x00000bcd) THROTTLE1_SET
   197281 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3021 (0x00000bcd) THROTTLE1_SET
   238906 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3021 (0x00000bcd) THROTTLE1_SET
   234594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3021 (0x00000bcd) THROTTLE1_SET
   216203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3021 (0x00000bcd) THROTTLE1_SET
   237375 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3021 (0x00000bcd) THROTTLE1_SET
   241891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3021 (0x00000bcd) THROTTLE1_SET
   241547 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3021 (0x00000bcd) THROTTLE1_SET
   253656 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 318 (0x0000013e) THROTTLE1_SET
   143313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 318 (0x0000013e) THROTTLE1_SET
   197016 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 318 (0x0000013e) THROTTLE1_SET
	46438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 318 (0x0000013e) THROTTLE1_SET
	81328 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 318 (0x0000013e) THROTTLE1_SET
   158922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3180 (0x00000c6c) THROTTLE1_SET
   239438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3180 (0x00000c6c) THROTTLE1_SET
   163828 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3180 (0x00000c6c) THROTTLE1_SET
   219297 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3180 (0x00000c6c) THROTTLE1_SET
   235031 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3339 (0x00000d0b) THROTTLE1_SET
   213969 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3339 (0x00000d0b) THROTTLE1_SET
   241516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3339 (0x00000d0b) THROTTLE1_SET
   237813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3339 (0x00000d0b) THROTTLE1_SET
   211141 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3498 (0x00000daa) THROTTLE1_SET
   163719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3498 (0x00000daa) THROTTLE1_SET
   197359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3498 (0x00000daa) THROTTLE1_SET
   159125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3498 (0x00000daa) THROTTLE1_SET
   210828 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3657 (0x00000e49) THROTTLE1_SET
   213719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3657 (0x00000e49) THROTTLE1_SET
   212531 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3657 (0x00000e49) THROTTLE1_SET
   159219 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3816 (0x00000ee8) THROTTLE1_SET
   197391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3816 (0x00000ee8) THROTTLE1_SET
   212813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3975 (0x00000f87) THROTTLE1_SET
   210516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3975 (0x00000f87) THROTTLE1_SET
   211000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3975 (0x00000f87) THROTTLE1_SET
   211172 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 3975 (0x00000f87) THROTTLE1_SET
   197422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4134 (0x00001026) THROTTLE1_SET
   203656 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4134 (0x00001026) THROTTLE1_SET
   210422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4293 (0x000010c5) THROTTLE1_SET
   203234 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4452 (0x00001164) THROTTLE1_SET
   202422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4452 (0x00001164) THROTTLE1_SET
   197500 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4452 (0x00001164) THROTTLE1_SET
   198688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4452 (0x00001164) THROTTLE1_SET
   210359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4611 (0x00001203) THROTTLE1_SET
   204813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4611 (0x00001203) THROTTLE1_SET
   205391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4611 (0x00001203) THROTTLE1_SET
   230563 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 477 (0x000001dd) THROTTLE1_SET
   191203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 477 (0x000001dd) THROTTLE1_SET
   119391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 477 (0x000001dd) THROTTLE1_SET
   224375 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 477 (0x000001dd) THROTTLE1_SET
	95844 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 477 (0x000001dd) THROTTLE1_SET
   201469 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4771 (0x000012a3) THROTTLE1_SET
   203203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4771 (0x000012a3) THROTTLE1_SET
   198109 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4771 (0x000012a3) THROTTLE1_SET
   198719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4771 (0x000012a3) THROTTLE1_SET
   204938 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4930 (0x00001342) THROTTLE1_SET
   210250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 4930 (0x00001342) THROTTLE1_SET
   205422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5089 (0x000013e1) THROTTLE1_SET
   201172 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5089 (0x000013e1) THROTTLE1_SET
   207875 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5089 (0x000013e1) THROTTLE1_SET
   210141 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5407 (0x0000151f) THROTTLE1_SET
   208922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5407 (0x0000151f) THROTTLE1_SET
   205766 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5407 (0x0000151f) THROTTLE1_SET
   208484 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5407 (0x0000151f) THROTTLE1_SET
   209406 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5725 (0x0000165d) THROTTLE1_SET
   208750 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 5725 (0x0000165d) THROTTLE1_SET
   253594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 636 (0x0000027c) THROTTLE1_SET
   197047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 636 (0x0000027c) THROTTLE1_SET
   143422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 795 (0x0000031b) THROTTLE1_SET
   224313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 795 (0x0000031b) THROTTLE1_SET
   230625 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 795 (0x0000031b) THROTTLE1_SET
   253516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 954 (0x000003ba) THROTTLE1_SET
   253688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= -96 (0xffffffa0) THROTTLE2_SET
	82516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   117719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	87703 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	68922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   191234 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	74469 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	35516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	97781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	61000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	79719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   116906 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	67047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   196000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	49797 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	95516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	81734 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   115922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	97672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
	62906 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   127641 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   224578 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   122719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   114422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET
   143391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1024 (0x00000400) THROTTLE2_SET
   197078 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1024 (0x00000400) THROTTLE2_SET
   253516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1024 (0x00000400) THROTTLE2_SET
   224203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1184 (0x000004a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   253484 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1184 (0x000004a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   230594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1184 (0x000004a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   143422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1184 (0x000004a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   191156 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1184 (0x000004a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   197109 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1184 (0x000004a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   248891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1184 (0x000004a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   143594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1344 (0x00000540) THROTTLE2_SET
   248313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1344 (0x00000540) THROTTLE2_SET
   230656 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1344 (0x00000540) THROTTLE2_SET
   248938 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1344 (0x00000540) THROTTLE2_SET
   191125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1504 (0x000005e0) THROTTLE2_SET
   197156 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1504 (0x000005e0) THROTTLE2_SET
   224172 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1504 (0x000005e0) THROTTLE2_SET
   230797 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1664 (0x00000680) THROTTLE2_SET
   248188 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1664 (0x00000680) THROTTLE2_SET
   143688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1824 (0x00000720) THROTTLE2_SET
   197188 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1824 (0x00000720) THROTTLE2_SET
   230859 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1984 (0x000007c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   197219 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1984 (0x000007c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   143766 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1984 (0x000007c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   223594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1984 (0x000007c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   191094 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1984 (0x000007c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   224109 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1984 (0x000007c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   242203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 1984 (0x000007c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   220484 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2144 (0x00000860) THROTTLE2_SET
   222844 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2144 (0x00000860) THROTTLE2_SET
   242094 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2144 (0x00000860) THROTTLE2_SET
   223625 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2144 (0x00000860) THROTTLE2_SET
   195953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 224 (0x000000e0) THROTTLE2_SET
   115891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 224 (0x000000e0) THROTTLE2_SET
	95484 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 224 (0x000000e0) THROTTLE2_SET
	35438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 224 (0x000000e0) THROTTLE2_SET
   170297 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2304 (0x00000900) THROTTLE2_SET
   165484 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2304 (0x00000900) THROTTLE2_SET
   230938 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2304 (0x00000900) THROTTLE2_SET
   143828 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2304 (0x00000900) THROTTLE2_SET
   197250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2464 (0x000009a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   222609 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2464 (0x000009a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   219969 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2464 (0x000009a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   165516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   191063 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   146109 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   233234 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   173219 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   165313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   143938 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   241922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   231031 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   148563 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   217125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   219531 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   170328 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   188031 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   145813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2624 (0x00000a40) THROTTLE2_SET
   165250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   216375 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   164813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   217672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   217156 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   188000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   218578 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   188719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   173172 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   236078 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   197281 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2784 (0x00000ae0) THROTTLE2_SET
   145875 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2944 (0x00000b80) THROTTLE2_SET
   158000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2944 (0x00000b80) THROTTLE2_SET
   218953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2944 (0x00000b80) THROTTLE2_SET
   233203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2944 (0x00000b80) THROTTLE2_SET
   148531 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2944 (0x00000b80) THROTTLE2_SET
   145469 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2944 (0x00000b80) THROTTLE2_SET
   234250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 2944 (0x00000b80) THROTTLE2_SET
   218516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   164984 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   163891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   217359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   216406 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   190859 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   236125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   197328 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   213938 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3104 (0x00000c20) THROTTLE2_SET
   234859 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3264 (0x00000cc0) THROTTLE2_SET
   158234 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3264 (0x00000cc0) THROTTLE2_SET
   218891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3264 (0x00000cc0) THROTTLE2_SET
   235922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3264 (0x00000cc0) THROTTLE2_SET
   213859 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3424 (0x00000d60) THROTTLE2_SET
   235031 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3424 (0x00000d60) THROTTLE2_SET
   163797 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3424 (0x00000d60) THROTTLE2_SET
   158813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3424 (0x00000d60) THROTTLE2_SET
   213219 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3424 (0x00000d60) THROTTLE2_SET
   210563 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3584 (0x00000e00) THROTTLE2_SET
   213656 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3584 (0x00000e00) THROTTLE2_SET
   197359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3584 (0x00000e00) THROTTLE2_SET
   158953 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3744 (0x00000ea0) THROTTLE2_SET
   163516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3744 (0x00000ea0) THROTTLE2_SET
   224438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 384 (0x00000180) THROTTLE2_SET
   230453 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 384 (0x00000180) THROTTLE2_SET
   191203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 384 (0x00000180) THROTTLE2_SET
   253656 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 384 (0x00000180) THROTTLE2_SET
   143250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 384 (0x00000180) THROTTLE2_SET
   197016 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 384 (0x00000180) THROTTLE2_SET
   210422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 3904 (0x00000f40) THROTTLE2_SET
   159188 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4064 (0x00000fe0) THROTTLE2_SET
   210359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4064 (0x00000fe0) THROTTLE2_SET
   160141 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4064 (0x00000fe0) THROTTLE2_SET
   197422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4064 (0x00000fe0) THROTTLE2_SET
   162000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4064 (0x00000fe0) THROTTLE2_SET
   160641 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4224 (0x00001080) THROTTLE2_SET
   159891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4224 (0x00001080) THROTTLE2_SET
   197500 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4224 (0x00001080) THROTTLE2_SET
   202125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4224 (0x00001080) THROTTLE2_SET
   210281 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4384 (0x00001120) THROTTLE2_SET
   201500 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4544 (0x000011c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   201781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4544 (0x000011c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   204734 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4544 (0x000011c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   197563 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4544 (0x000011c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   198109 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4864 (0x00001300) THROTTLE2_SET
   210250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4864 (0x00001300) THROTTLE2_SET
   201750 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4864 (0x00001300) THROTTLE2_SET
   200750 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4864 (0x00001300) THROTTLE2_SET
   204766 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 4864 (0x00001300) THROTTLE2_SET
   200719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 5024 (0x000013a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   204844 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 5024 (0x000013a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   210219 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 5024 (0x000013a0) THROTTLE2_SET
   204938 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 5344 (0x000014e0) THROTTLE2_SET
   210156 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 5344 (0x000014e0) THROTTLE2_SET
   207391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 5344 (0x000014e0) THROTTLE2_SET
   207359 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 5504 (0x00001580) THROTTLE2_SET
   208547 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 5504 (0x00001580) THROTTLE2_SET
	82484 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	87656 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	49766 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   224516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	68891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	62875 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	97641 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   117688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   230422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   116875 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	60969 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	97750 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   127609 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	66984 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	74438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   122672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   114391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	81703 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
	79688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   196984 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 64 (0x00000040) THROTTLE2_SET
   197047 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 704 (0x000002c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   253594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 704 (0x000002c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   224406 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 704 (0x000002c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   230484 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 704 (0x000002c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   143313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 704 (0x000002c0) THROTTLE2_SET
   230516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 864 (0x00000360) THROTTLE2_SET
   224313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 864 (0x00000360) THROTTLE2_SET

Regards

Pete

[baw19]

Ah, OK, I was searching for "Calibrated=-...".

So if the axiis are sending correctly calibrated values and I have NRZ switched I wonder why the reversers are deploying, seemingly at random, when I'm idling or taxiing? Is there anything I can turn on to trap those events?

For info the only thing I use to command the reversers is a switch that sends either -4096 or zero to offsets x088C, x0924, x09BC, x0A54 (all 2 byte VB6 integers). As before there is nothing set up in FSX to activate these.

Cheers

Ian

[Later]

Ah, wait - I'm probably missing something but there are loads of negatives in the FSUIPC4728c_To_FSUIPC_Calib_No_Filter_Delta_512.log file. This one's on a throttle but there are countless negs on the spoiler, flaps, rudder and brake axiis)

253688 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= -96 (0xffffffa0) THROTTLE2_SET

compare this to one from the extract you listed above and they look identical but for the negative value

253594 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 704 (0x000002c0) THROTTLE2_SET

Sorry to confuse matters!

[still later!]

I just spotted that the line I pulled out is actually in your extract list! I'll restore the previous version of FSUIPC and see if I can reproduce the spoiler issue with no filtering...

Ian

[baw19]

Hi Pete

Right, I've re-tested using the original FSUIPC v4.278 and with no filtering on any axis and I still get random reverser deployments.

I copied the new log pretty shortly after getting one of those events so the axis info at the end of the log should be round about the same time.

Looking at this and the earlier logs I noticed an awful lot of -96 entries springing up on Throttle2 but I've no idea if that's interesting or a red herring!

The new log is here: www.ianniblo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/FSUIPC4278_No_Filtering_Delta_256.zip

All the best

Ian

[Pete Dowson]

So if the axiis are sending correctly calibrated values and I have NRZ switched I wonder why the reversers are deploying, seemingly at random, when I'm idling or taxiing? Is there anything I can turn on to trap those events?

If they were from any axis they'd be sure to show in these logs. Otherwise they'd have to be either from normal FS controls like THROTTLE_DECR (== F2) or THROTTLEn_DECR and so on, or from something else writing directly to the throttle offsets or SimConnect.

You can enable Event logging to detect the controls, and Monitor offsets like 088C and 0924 as type "S16" in the FSUIPC Logging right-hand page monitor. Check "normal log" below.

Ah, wait - I'm probably missing something but there are loads of negatives in the FSUIPC4728c_To_FSUIPC_Calib_No_Filter_Delta_512.log file. This one's on a throttle but there are countless negs on the spoiler, flaps, rudder and brake axiis)

All of the controls to spoiler, flaps, rudder and brake are using the AXIS_ type controls, which have -16384 as "off" or whatever (same as the AXIS_THROTTLE controls, if you were using those, which you are not).

253688 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= -96 (0xffffffa0) THROTTLE2_SET

Ah, apologies. Don't know how I missed that one. Looks like the only one, and not enought to engage any real reverse -- you were in idle by the look of it.

Here's the context for that one:

   253688 Axis 5Y=-16123: Action=10 (direct to calib)
   253688 Direct Axis 10, Ctrl 66423=-16123 : in calibration ...
   253688 ###JOY### Event seen, ID=65821 (0x0001011D), Joy=9, value=-16123 (Direct)
   253688 Axis calibration: Control=65821, Original=-16123, Calibrated=-96
   253688 Direct Axis Control 65821=-16123 (cal=-96): sent as Event
   253688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= -96 (0xffffffa0) THROTTLE2_SET

so it is actually calibrating as -96. I'll have to check the arithmetic to see how it arrives at that. To do so I need the calibrations out of your INI file, please, the ones responsible for Throttle2.

This is certainly nothing to do with your earlier problem, and I doubt that it can really give you reverse thrust. It is probably some arithmetic rounding error in the calibration interpolation. We'll still need more logging to see where you are getting reverse thrust whilst taxiing.

Regards

Pete

[baw19]

You can enable Event logging to detect the controls, and Monitor offsets like 088C and 0924 as type "S16" in the FSUIPC Logging right-hand page monitor. Check "normal log" below.

Righto, I'll monitor all the offsets and controls that affect reversers to see if anything's firing them.

To do so I need the calibrations out of your INI file, please, the ones responsible for Throttle2.

Here you go, the reverser zone is deliberately narrow to try to minimize any chance of deployment:-

Throttle2=-16383,0,1,16125/32

All the best

Ian

ps The full INI file follows, if it's any use to you. By the way, it's Saturday night and I'm sure you have better things to do than debug someone else's problem - I really appreciate all the work you've put in and I'm quite happy to leave this till it's convenient with you, just let me know.

[General]
Debug=Please
LogExtras=x8
History=NXHU1AMHIUE2GCVOI93O3
TCASid=Tail
TCASrange=160
AxisCalibration=No
DirectAxesToCalibs=No
ShowMultilineWindow=No
SuppressSingleline=No
SuppressMultilineFS=No
WeatherReadFactor=2
SimConnectStallTime=1
GraduatedVisibility=No
LowerVisAltitude=0
UpperVisAltitude=25000
UpperVisibility=10000
MinimumVisibility=200
MaximumVisibilityFewClouds=0
MaximumVisibility=0
MaximumVisibilityOvercast=0
MaximumVisibilityRainy=0
SetVisUpperAlt=No
VisUpperAltLimit=60000
ExtendMetarMaxVis=No
OneCloudLayer=No
CloudTurbulence=No
CloudIcing=No
GenerateCirrus=No
SuppressCloudTurbulence=No
MaxIce=-4
MinIce=-4
UpperWindGusts=No
SuppressWindTurbulence=No
WindTurbulence=No
SuppressAllGusts=No
MaxSurfaceWind=0
WindLimitLevel=200
WindDiscardLevel=400
WindAjustAltitude=No
WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000
DisconnTrimForAP=No
ZeroElevForAPAlt=No
ThrottleSyncAll=No
WhiteMessages=No
ShowPMcontrols=No
MagicBattery=Yes
RudderSpikeRemoval=No
ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No
AileronSpikeRemoval=No
ReversedElevatorTrim=No
ClockSync=No
ClockSyncMins=5
ClearWeatherDynamics=No
OwnWeatherChanges=No
TimeForSelect=4
LoadFlightMenu=Yes
LoadPlanMenu=No
PauseAfterCrash=No
ShortAircraftNameOk=No
AxisIntercepts=No
SpoilerIncrement=512
WindSmoothing=No
WindSmoothness=2
WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes
ZapSound=firework
FixControlAccel=No
SuppressWindVariance=No
TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0
PressureSmoothness=20
TemperatureSmoothness=0
MouseWheelTrim=No
VisibilityOptions=Yes
TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40
WeatherRewriteSeconds=1
MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1
FixMachSpeedBug=Yes
CustomWeatherModify=No
Console=No
SaveDataWithFlights=No
UseProfiles=No
UpdatedByVersion=4728
SmoothBySimTime=No
BrakeReleaseThreshold=75
DontResetAxes=No
JoystickTimeout=20
PollGFTQ6=Yes
BlankDisplays=No
GetNearestAirports=No
LuaRerunDelay=66
EnableMouseLook=No
LogAxes=Yes




[AutoSave]
AutoSaveEnabled=No
Next=1
Interval=60
Files=10
SaveOnGround=No



[GPSout]
GPSoutEnabled=No
Port=<none set>
Speed=4800
Interval=1000
PosTo6Decimal=Yes
Sentences=



[WideServer]
WideFSenabled=Yes
AdvertiseService=1
Port=8002
Port2=9002



[ClientNames]
1=MUSICPC
2=FLTSIM2
3=LAPTOP1
4=SIDEVIEWS



[Buttons]
:: EliminateTransients=Yes
:: PollInterval=25
1=R2,2,C1017,0
2=R2,3,C1016,0
3=R2,4,C65607,0
4=R2,5,C65615,0
5=P2,7,C66530,0
6=R3,2,C1017,0
7=R3,3,C1016,0
8=R3,4,C65607,0
9=R3,5,C65615,0
10=P3,7,C66530,0
11=P158,0,C65906,0
12=P4,28,C65561,0
13=P158,11,C65859,0
14=P158,12,C65725,0
15=P158,13,C65726,0
18=P174,10,C66616,0
ButtonRepeat=20,10
21=R2,0,K116,8
22=R3,0,K116,8
25=P174,9,C66615,0
26=P158,9,C65722,0




[Axes]
0=0X,256,D,7,0,0,0
1=0Y,256,D,8,0,0,0
2=0Z,256,D,3,0,0,0
3=1X,256,D,7,0,0,0
4=1Y,256,D,8,0,0,0
5=1Z,256,D,3,0,0,0
6=2X,256,D,1,0,0,0
7=2Y,256,D,2,0,0,0
8=3X,256,D,1,0,0,0
9=3Y,256,D,2,0,0,0
10=5X,256,D,9,0,0,0
11=5Y,256,D,10,0,0,0
12=5Z,256,D,22,0,0,0
13=5R,256,D,23,0,0,0




[ fCalibration]
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=Yes
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
Spoilers=-15234,-11210,-5174,16384/16
LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16
RightBrake=-16380,16380/16
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
MapThr1to234=Yes
MapThr12to34=Yes
MapThr12to123=Yes
Throttle1=-16383,0,0,16382/32




[Keys]
1=1,8,65865,0
2=187,8,65656,0
4=189,8,65655,0
5=109,8,65656,0
6=107,8,65655,0
7=37,8,65671,0
8=39,8,65672,0
9=49,8,65734,0




[JoyNames]
AutoAssignLetters=No
2=Saitek Pro Flight Yoke
3=Saitek Pro Flight Yoke
4=Plasma-Lite
0=CH PRO PEDALS USB                             
1=CH PRO PEDALS USB                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
0.GUID={7C4FD0D0-9889-11DD-8002-444553540000}
1.GUID={7C4FD0D0-9889-11DD-8003-444553540000}
2.GUID={7C4FD0D0-9889-11DD-8004-444553540000}
3.GUID={7C4FD0D0-9889-11DD-8005-444553540000}
4.GUID={7C4FD0D0-9889-11DD-800C-444553540000}
5=IOCa
5.GUID={55C60700-18B6-11DF-8001-444553540000}




[LuaFiles]
1=display vals
2=liar
3=MenuDemo
4=TripleUse




[GPSout2]
GPSoutEnabled=No
Port=<none set>
Speed=4800
Interval=2000
PosTo6Decimal=No
Sentences=




[Sounds]
Path=C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Sound\
Device1=Primary Sound Driver
Device2=SB Live! 24-bit
Device3=USB Sound Device




[Axes.FA-18 Hornet]
0=0X,256,D,7,0,0,0
1=0Y,256,D,8,0,0,0
2=0Z,256,D,3,0,0,0
3=1X,256,D,7,0,0,0
4=1Y,256,D,8,0,0,0
5=1Z,256,D,3,0,0,0
6=2X,256,D,1,0,0,0
7=2Y,256,D,2,0,0,0
8=3X,256,D,1,0,0,0
9=3Y,256,D,2,0,0,0
10=5X,256,D,9,0,0,0
11=5Y,256,D,10,0,0,0
12=5Z,256,D,22,0,0,0
13=5R,256,D,23,0,0,0




[Monitor]
Display=1
Monitor3=0,0BD0,5,0




[JoystickCalibration.Boeing 747-400 BA]
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=Yes
FlapStarts=-16384,-12177,-7085,-443,5314,9299,12840
FlapEnds=-13284,-7528,-4207,2214,8635,11513,16384
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
Spoilers=-16384,-9629,-5145,16383/8
Flaps=-13284,12841
MapThr12to34=Yes
Throttle1=-16380,0,1,16380/32
Throttle2=-16380,0,1,16380/32
LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16
RightBrake=-16380,16380/16




[JoystickCalibration.FA-18 Hornet]
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=Yes
FlapStarts=-16384,-7970,1328,11733
FlapEnds=-14391,-4871,5092,16384
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
Throttle1=-13256,0,1,16073/32
Throttle2=-13520,0,1,16036/32
Spoilers=-16384,-11244,-6746,16383
Flaps=-14391,11734
LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16
RightBrake=-16380,16380/16




[JoystickCalibration]
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=No
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16
RightBrake=-16380,16380/16




[JoystickCalibration.Boeing 747-100 BA]
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
MapThr12to34=Yes
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=Yes
FlapStarts=-16384,-13284,-7306,-886,5535,9963,12176
FlapEnds=-14170,-11070,-4428,1328,9077,11513,16384
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16
RightBrake=-16380,16380/16
Throttle1=-13547,0,1,16074/32
Throttle2=-13522,0,1,16029/32
Spoilers=-16381,-9637,-5140,16383
Flaps=-14170,12177




[JoystickCalibration.Boeing 737-100 BA]
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=Yes
FlapStarts=-16384,-12840,-9962,-6863,-3321,0,6199,9520,14937
FlapEnds=-14169,-10848,-7969,-4428,-443,2878,8856,12398,16384
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
Throttle1=-16383,0,1,16074/32
Throttle2=-16383,0,1,16125/32
Spoilers=-16381,-11243,-5779,16383
Flaps=-13284,12841
LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16
RightBrake=-16380,16380/16
SyncSlopeThrottle2=57/55

[Pete Dowson]

Here you go, the reverser zone is deliberately narrow to try to minimize any chance of deployment:-

Throttle2=-16383,0,1,16125/32

What "reverser zone"? The middle two values are ignored (not even settable in the dialogue) if the NRZ option is selected.

The minimum value of -16383 seems to be default. Don't you leave any dead zone so you can be sure to get a reliable idle? Please do re-read the numbered steps to calibration. Even the max is within one "jitter" of what is needed for max thrust, so there may be times too you can't reach max thrust.

The idea of calibration is to make FS ddo what you need it to do with your specific controls. your calbration is pretty much identical to no calibration at all. You might as well just assign in FSX and forget FSUIPC.

ps The full INI file follows, if it's any use to you. By the way, it's Saturday night and I'm sure you have better things to do than debug someone else's problem

Yes, my guest has arrived so this will be my last for now, probably till the 'morrow! ;-)

However, quick comments:

All your axes have Delta's of 256, not the 512 you were trying?

Which aircraft are you using. I can't tell what's what here.

This is a useless section with some corrupted header:

[ fCalibration]

Spoilers=-15234,-11210,-5174,16384/16

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

MapThr1to234=Yes

MapThr12to34=Yes

MapThr12to123=Yes

Throttle1=-16383,0,0,16382/32

Here the spoilers have no leeway for full up and full down. you only appear to have calibrated a detente.

The throttles and brakes appear uncalibrated for min and max. Very bad.

[JoystickCalibration.Boeing 747-400 BA]

Spoilers=-16384,-9629,-5145,16383/8

MapThr12to34=Yes

Throttle1=-16380,0,1,16380/32

Throttle2=-16380,0,1,16380/32

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

This one's a bit better, except for brakes and spoilers:

[JoystickCalibration.FA-18 Hornet]

Throttle1=-13256,0,1,16073/32

Throttle2=-13520,0,1,16036/32

Spoilers=-16384,-11244,-6746,16383

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

Only defalut calibration is brakes, and they are as good as uncalibrated:

[JoystickCalibration]

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

Similarly here for brakes and spoilers:

[JoystickCalibration.Boeing 747-100 BA]

MapThr12to34=Yes

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

Throttle1=-13547,0,1,16074/32

Throttle2=-13522,0,1,16029/32

Spoilers=-16381,-9637,-5140,16383

And here for throttle idles as well as spoilers and brakes. And what's the "syncslopethrottle2" for?

[JoystickCalibration.Boeing 737-100 BA]

Throttle1=-16383,0,1,16074/32

Throttle2=-16383,0,1,16125/32

Spoilers=-16381,-11243,-5779,16383

LeftBrake=-16380,16380/16

RightBrake=-16380,16380/16

SyncSlopeThrottle2=57/55

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I've been trying all sorts of ways to reproduce that small -ve value. I've a feeling it's related to that SyncSlopeThrottle parameter (it is in the Calibration section for the aircraft used according to the logging). I guess it just needs specific input vaslues to generate the problem, and I've not been able to do so.

Anyway, I've made a new version, 4.729, with two changes which might help:

1. I worked out a much better way to get the Filtering working without those occasional spurious values caused by re-entrancy. I does involve using semaphore protected lockouts, but the routines involved are so short it doesn't have any performance impact. The previous "fix" didn't actually fix it properly in any case.

2. I've put some extra precautions to ensure that the "SyncSlope" option does not inadvertently use incorrect values. Maybe this will fix the problem you are seeing. I hope so because I've no other answer at present.

Download 4.729 using this link. http://fsuipc.simfli.../FSUIPC4729.zip

Regards

Pete

[baw19]

Hi Pete,

I've set all the Deltas to 512, switched filtering back on, added large 'buffers' zones at each end of the calibration ranges and removed the spurious entries in my INI file.

Using v4.729 I reliably get FSX abends when I throttle up though it must be said that so far I've not had any rogue reverser deployments. To replicate the abend I start at EGKK using the 737-100 (see note later). Then I change to the 747-100, taxi to the runway and line up. I ramp up the thrust to check the engines are stable then open them fully but FSX freezes before I get to 100%. This happens with the new version of FSUIPC immediately after a full PC reboot. If I restore the original v4.278 I don't get the abend. Please note that with the 747 I currently use throttle lever 1 to control engines 1 & 2 and throttle lever 2 to control engines 3 and 4.

Sorry this is all rambling along so much! Both logs are here (one for each version of FSUIPC) www.ianniblo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/FSUIPC4_FSX_Abend.zip

Ian

Note: The 747-100 and 737-100 are actually the default 747-400 and 737-800 FSX models but I've had to segregate them and rename them for quite complicated reasons revloving around dual log ons in VATSIM and me trying to avoid seeing my own plane when I fly online. Apart from the name and the paint job the planes are the defaults in all other respects.

[Pete Dowson]

Using v4.729 I reliably get FSX abends when I throttle up

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term, "abend". Can you elaborate please? I looked it up and it said "abnormal termination", so if that's the case it's a crash, and you have details like where etc?

To replicate the abend I start at EGKK using the 737-100 (see note later). Then I change to the 747-100, taxi to the runway and line up. I ramp up the thrust to check the engines are stable then open them fully but FSX freezes before I get to 100%.

So your "abend" is a "freeze" not a termination? Do you mean a hang? FSX hangs completely and you have to terminate it with Task Manager?

And it only happens after switching from the 737 to the 747?

Can you make it fail without the mapping of the throttles? (I guess you'd have to only use two engines. Sorry).

Can you make it fail without the filtering on?

Regards

Pete

[baw19]

Sorry, I'm not familiar with that term, "abend". Can you elaborate please? I looked it up and it said "abnormal termination", so if that's the case it's a crash, and you have details like where etc? So your "abend" is a "freeze" not a termination? Do you mean a hang? FSX hangs completely and you have to terminate it with Task Manager?

Yes, sorry, clumsy terminology. FSX hangs and I have to End Task it.

And it only happens after switching from the 737 to the 747?

Yes

Can you make it fail without the mapping of the throttles? (I guess you'd have to only use two engines. Sorry).

No - in fact I switched off the MapThr12to34 option and taxied the 747 around quite happily, albeit mostly to the right. However when I turned the option back on the sim hanged as soon as the FSUIPC dialog closed. FSX then had to be end tasked. Latest log is at www.ianniblo.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/FSUIPC4_hang_after_setting_map12to34.zip

All the best

Ian

[Pete Dowson]

No - in fact I switched off the MapThr12to34 option and taxied the 747 around quite happily

Okay, I already guessed it was due to the mapping. The mapped controls cause an attempted re-entry for filtering (which isn't needed of course in any case) and the semaphore lockout check, er, locked up! :-(

Try FSUIPC 4.731 please

Regards

Pete

[baw19]

Aha! Think we have a result Pete.

I've been taxiing around with v4.731 the for a while now - both 737 and 747 with filters on. Even completed a quick hop from Gatwick to Heathrow in the 747 and no reversers deploying and no FSX hangs. Shall we call that a fix or would you rather I tested for a few more days?

Many thanks for the efforts you've put in to this one Pete, very much appreciated.

All the best

Ian

[Pete Dowson]

I've been taxiing around with v4.731 the for a while now - both 737 and 747 with filters on. Even completed a quick hop from Gatwick to Heathrow in the 747 and no reversers deploying and no FSX hangs. Shall we call that a fix or would you rather I tested for a few more days?

Well, carry on using it. I'll release it in the Download Links subforum in any case. I'm reasonably confident in the changes I made, now ... ;-). wider usage would be welcome in any case.

Thanks,

Pete.

[baw19]

Hi Pete, just to let you know I've been using the v4.731 on full flight cycles for a couple of days now with no problems (I noticed the word Beta on the download link and thought I should update you).

All the best

Ian

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete, just to let you know I've been using the v4.731 on full flight cycles for a couple of days now with no problems (I noticed the word Beta on the download link and thought I should update you).

Thanks!

Incidentally, all the files I place on the Server here are in a "Beta" folder. It was allocated to me by the powers that be. It is a Beta in the sense that it doesn't become a full user release until documented properly and posted on the Schiratti site. In that sense all the Interim updates are 'Betas'.

Thanks again,

Pete