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FS Commander SID's & STAR's

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I hope someone can help clarify this situation for me or guide me in the correct direction

I have the iFly737 and FSC9.2 with AIRAC 1205 successfully installed on both.

The problem I am having is that although the correct SID's and STAR's are showing for selection, the display of these on the map is incorrect.

Within iFly, the waypoints that make up a SID or STAR are correct - but these waypoints do not show up on the map correctly which I find rather frustrating.

In particular, I am referring to the waypoints of the SID's and STAR's for ZA (South Africa)

How can this be rectified?

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Are you using the same AIRAC cycle for both FSCommander and the iFly jet?

Ian P.

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I have the same problem and frustration. Many (if not most) SID's and STAR's are shown incorrect on the FSCommander map, although correctly indicated by the applicable FMC. The problem, I think, lies with Navigraph's AIRAC file for FSCommander and is not a FSCommander issue. I have mentioned this on Navigraph's forum but had no repsonse yet.

Johann

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When you say "incorrectly shown", what do you mean? Incorrect waypoints? Incorrect turn directions?

Ian P.

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Ian,

Yes, incorrect waypoints and turns. As an example, look at the SID OKTED1A off rwy01 FACT. The map and route shows: CTV, RIV then OKTED which is completely wrong. It should be something like: C03D1, D354H, D090V then OKTED to follow the actual OKTED1A route as per charts. There are many more, too many to list here. Again, I think it could be a Navigraph problem.

Johann

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The SIDs and STARs in FSCommander are, indeed, part of the information provided by Navigraph, so you'd hope that they are the same in both NAVDATA updates! Evidently they aren't, however.

You do sometimes get discrepancies in applications like FSCommander where lines aren't drawn exactly as they are shown on drawings - hence my previous question. If there are waypoints missing, incorrect or out of sequence, though, then unfortunately yes, you are going to have to talk to Navigraph about that, rather than Volker.

Cheers,

Ian P.

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After taking up this matter with Navigraph, I just received this reply from VAVDATA (Navigraph)

the procedures are correct, but and thats important ... The FSC supports only direct waypoint from-to coding, means you can't display any interceptions, dme distances and so on. Therefore I must supress these phantom waypoints and export only fixes which are connected to another fix.

When you look, on every procedure the end-point is correct and most of the fixes too ... but you don't see any turns, interceptions, dme distance waypoints and so on. It has nothing todo with the Navdata because you see in other addons, that the procedures are right. It's a limitation of FSC and I can't do more. Sorry ...

Now what??

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Hi annomyous,

What kind of direction would you like to get?

Richard from Navigraph gave you already some valid answers. And if procedures like "fly 5 nm ahead then turn left to radial...." can not be coded in FSC to be shown on the map, then it is as it is. And as Richard also pointed out that is extremly time consuming to change this and so you have to ask if it is worth the effort.

And for me, who uses FSC to setup flighplans only, it is more important that procedures are flow correctly be the aircraft.

So for me it is not so "exceptional frustrating" that I can't live with it.

jm2c ;)

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This is an inherent deficiency with FSC. The only way to overcome this is to manually create the SID/STAR by adding the waypoints to the flight plan. FS Navigator was great for correctly showing SIDS/STARS. It's a pity the FSC guys cannot find a similar way to do this as, for me, this is the only disadvantage for FSC.

Ken

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Hi Ken,

are you sure that you have read the manual of this chapter 5.1.1

A further comment on SIDs, STARs, and Transitions ?

or this chapter 5.5: Route segments ?

Volker

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Volker - I have studied those two sections extensively. The problem is, FSC does not display the SID or STAR correctly (as per the waypoints of the SID or STAR). As Ken said, the only way to overcome this problem is to enter the points manually into the flight plan - which makes the whole excersize fruitless.

Yes, the aircraft will fly the SID and STAR when one uses an aircraft equipped with a FMC, but the whole point is to have a correct VISUAL depiction of the SID or STAR without having to enter the waypoints manually. I more often than not do not use the FMC when approaching or departing an airport.

To have a correct visual depiction of a SID or STAR in FSC would be nothing short of bloody brilliant!

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Hi Volker

Yes I have read Chapter 5.1.1 and I sometimes use this in practice.

The basic problem with FSC is the inability to accurately represent the various SID requirements. FSC only manages to fly from waypoint to waypoint. Many SIDS require that aircraft fly a particular heading for a specific distance before turning onto either another heading or proceeding to a waypoint. NGY SIDS at EGPF are a classic example and ones I am very familiar with in both the Flightsim World and the Real World.

Without wanting to compare FSC with FS Navigator, which is no longer supported or developed, FS Nav did allow the user to create their own SIDS/STARS and to a very accurate degree.

Whilst you can do similar in FSC by creating user waypoints, you cannot save or amend the original SIDS/STARS. I agree with your reasons for not being able to amend the original SIDS/STARS as they are based on actual aviation authorities published procedures but it would be good to have the ability for the user.

Regards

Ken

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Hi Ken,

I know quite a number of users who create their own "SID's / STAR's".

These users use the route segments. Please read the chapter 5.6 route segments.

Regards,

Volker

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Hi Volker

Is it possible that you could give me more step by step instructions on creating route segments. I see unable to follow what the manual says and FSC has stopped working a couple of times as I try to do this. Basically I want to add in a couple of more waypoints to the NGY3J departure from EGPF RWY 05 to make it a little more realistic but I am really unclear as to how to do this. Do I need to have an exisiting flightplan i.e. EGPFEGLL for example?

Many thanks and regards

Ken

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Hi,

in the manual you will find a three-page description in section 5.5 page 70.

What else I would have Ken communicated via e-mail also.

I can not imagine what else I should explain to using the route segments.

Regards,

Volker

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