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Bad waypoint

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MSFS 9.1
FSX Acceleration
P3Dv2
FSUIPC 6.999b, 3.999z8, 4.927b
FSC v9.5 and DBM build 04JAN14
Win7 64
Navigraph AIRAC cycle    : 1401

Waypoint JANAK near KDTW.
When added to a flight plan shows up many miles away.
 

post-10883-0-33724900-1391280608_thumb.j

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Michael,

 

When manually typing in the flight plan waypoints why are Fixes not selected?

 

I have not run into a problem typing in a flight plan before.

 

I typed in the plan into FSBuild .. same Navdata in use:

 

 

post-10883-0-65946700-1391292449_thumb.j

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Just for info:

 

Per the manual:
Note that we make a terminological distinction between intersections and GPS fixes. Intersections are waypoints on an airway, while GPS fixes are merely geographic locations defined in terms of latitude and longitude without having anything to do with airways.
 

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Ok,

I got the correct fix JANAK into the plan, then added another waypoint to the flight plan, click ok and now it inserts the bad waypoint back into the route.

I also tried later adding another nearby waypoint into the plan WEEDA and it was also many miles away.

I did 4 screenshots of the problem.

 

 

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post-10883-0-65062300-1391715397_thumb.j

post-10883-0-89269600-1391715407_thumb.j

post-10883-0-37372100-1391715418_thumb.j

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Hi Vaughan,

 

It's NOT possible to enter waypoints without the associated airway into the route string.
The route string must conform to the following convention:
Departure Waypoint Airway Waypoint Airway Waypoint Airway ... Destination
See also the manual section 5.2.2 Airway Routes.

It makes no sense and is not necessary to press the O.K. button when the route string is not  corresponding with the above Conventions.

See also the manual section 5.2.2 Airway Routes
All  paragraphs Important ... and

paragraph A word of coution:...

 

Kind Regards,

Volker

 

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When I see a name on the map how do I tell if it can be used in a flight plan.

 

When I do a flight plan with FSBuild (See post #3 above) or in an aircraft FMC it picks the correct one. Not part of an really distant airway.

 

I cannot recall having put any flightplan into the flightplan FSC box .. and clicking OK ... and have it come out wrong.

 

Something has changed.

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Hello Vaughan,

 

Nothing has been changed.
The upper box and the O.K. Button can be used only and exclusively for a route according to the prescribed conventions.
Waypoints are selected either with the right mouse button from the map, or you press on the button "Open / Close waypoint window".

 

Kind Regards,

Volker

 

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Volker,

 

Yes, I know the right mouse button. It is good if you know where to look in advance ... I was doing an example of a near waypoint so I could get it into a screenshot.

 

This is what messed me up.

I load a saved flight plan like this one:

KCLE CRL KDTW   ............ this is ok.


The manual says I can type in a waypoint and hit the enter key ... which I have done in the past without a problem.

So, now I try to enter JANAK and the manual says all waypoints with the same name will appear in a list ...

But there is no list to make a selection from ....

 

 

post-10883-0-43404400-1391725651_thumb.j

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Hello Vaughan,

Your description I can not verify.

My attached screenshot shows my solution.

When I type in JANAK in the Waypoint window, then I get two waypoints.

Depending on the coordinate I choose, in this case, the second Waypoint FIX JANAK.
 

Your highlighted paragraph in your screenshots refers to the following page in the manual.
The text ... and press Enter ... is, however, wrong. I will correct the text in the manual.
A click with the left mouse button selects the waypoint.

 

Regards,

Volker

 

 

post-6634-0-60688400-1391756849_thumb.jp

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Volker,

You mentioned: "Your description I can not verify."

 

 

In the past I have used the text box to manually edit flight plans ... many times over the over years.

 

Here we are talking about some distant unwanted waypoint being forced into the flight plan.

 

Why FSBuild (naturally) gets it right I do not know but FSC is asuming here a typed in waypoint must belong to an airway .... I do not understand this logic.

 

But, yes you can verify what I am saying by saving my simple flight plan KCLR CRL KDTW then typing JANAK into the waypoint box ..... KCLR JANAK CRL KDTW and click OK (or press ENTER key.

 

You will see there is no pop up box for me to select the waypoint I need.

 

Instead FSC forces the wrong duplicate named waypoint into the plan.

post-10883-0-74847400-1391766508_thumb.j

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Hi Vaughan,

I do not understand this logic.

A waypoint on an airway is always unique. A waypoint without subsequent airway may be unique. Is it but mostly not.

You can have the happiness in the database your desired waypoint is found first of course.

That is the reason why there is an additional waypoint window. In this window you can select your waypoint.
In the text box belongs only a text string corresponding to the required conventions. This convention has been available since version 9.0.
 

But, yes you can verify what I am saying by saving my simple flight plan KCLR CRL KDTW then typing JANAK into the waypoint box ..... KCLR JANAK CRL KDTW and click OK (or press ENTER key.

A text string like yours can lead to a correct result. But this is not always so.

You will see there is no pop up box for me to select the waypoint I need.

 

You're right, there is no pop up windows. The window you must activate as described and pictured in the previous post itself.

 

Instead FSC forces the wrong duplicate named waypoint into the plan.

 

The FSC does not enforce the wrong waypoint but he finds this waypoint as the first.

 

You can type the code of the waypoint to be selected into the waypoint text box and press
Enter on your keyboard. All waypoints with this code will appear in the waypoint list.
Choose the appropriate waypoint by clicking on it.

This text belongs to the waypoint window and not to the text field in the flight plan table.

(see attached screenshot and in the manual the following text on the page)

 

I hope that my explanations have been sufficient.

 

Regards,

Volker

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post-6634-0-12376300-1391774755.jpg

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Volker,

 

Thanks for the explanations.

 

"In the text box belongs only a text string corresponding to the required conventions. This convention has been available since version 9.0."

***
Yes, an AVSIM review of FSC9 mentioned flight plans can be typed into the flight plan box (screenshots).

As a test I typed in the example reviewed flight plan KSFO KIAD (modified by me) into the FSC9 flight plan text box and clicked OK, and it worked (screenshot).
Like many I have done (edited) in the past.

Original plan from AVSIM review:
KSFO CUIT2 LIN PEONS INSLO DTA J84 OBH J10 DSM BDF BVT ROD APE AIR J162 MGW VERNI ESL SHNON2 KIAD

Mine, modified:
KSFO CUIT5 LIN PEONS INSLO DTA J84 OBH J10 DSM BDF BVT ROD APE AIR J162 MGW VERNI ESL KIAD

****
"You're right, there is no pop up windows. The window you must activate as described and pictured in the previous post itself."

Yes, this is the problem ... in the manual and in today's FSC9 flight plan generation.

If there is a conflict, FSC9 should bring up a pop-up window to resolve it.

****
Anyway, when I now type in a simple plan like this:

KDTW CRL JANAK WEEDA PEJAE KCLE

It does not work.

At first I thought it was a problem with the Navigraph Navdata.
But I verified the Navdata was ok by copying the plan into the FSBuild flight plan text box ... and it was OK.


 

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post-10883-0-78133400-1391787767_thumb.j

post-10883-0-36986400-1391787779_thumb.j

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Hi Vaughan,

 

obviously you do not understand what Volker is trying to tell you.

 

The kind of routestring you mentioned above can not be entered into the flightplan window. This is clearly stated in the manual.

Also Volker confirmed that there is an error in the manual regarding the use of the "OK" button or pressing "enter". This error will be corrected.

 

The fact that this kind of routestring works in another program is simply a sign that the programmer followed another philosopy which is IMHO not correct (best practice rules for application code) and works not in all cases. Also you should not use a review as example, as you can not be 100% sure what this reviewer exactly did.

 

Of course it would be nice to get a window giving you a selection of those "waypoints" to choose the right one, but this would for sure mean a complete redesign of the FSC, following a new philosophy. And I'm sure that many users would not be pleased about that.

 

BTW: I tested your routestring above with another flightplaning tool (PFPX), which allso follows all professional guidelines for route planing and it also came up with this "wrong" result

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Hello Otto,

Thank you for your follow up.
 

"obviously you do not understand what Volker is trying to tell you."
Every now and then it happens.

 

"The kind of routestring you mentioned above can not be entered into the flightplan window. This is clearly stated in the manual."
That was part of what I did not understand and because I had done it in the past without a problem.



"Also Volker confirmed that there is an error in the manual regarding the use of the "OK" button or pressing "enter". This error will be corrected."
Ok.


"The fact that this kind of routestring works in another program is simply a sign that the programmer followed another philosopy which is IMHO not correct (best practice rules for application code) and works not in all cases."
I am not a programmer so I really cannot comment. But like you said, "works not in all cases"


"Also you should not use a review as example, as you can not be 100% sure what this reviewer exactly did."
Volker had mentioned nothing changed since FSC version 9 ....
So, IMO, it was ok to use the review example written by another person ... no harm.
And, the routing put into the current FSC flight plan window and clicking on OK worked for me.
Did it work for you?
 

"Of course it would be nice to get a window giving you a selection of those "waypoints" to choose the right one,"
I agree.

" but this would for sure mean a complete redesign of the FSC, following a new philosophy."
I did not know that.


" And I'm sure that many users would not be pleased about that."
I am not sure about that because I do not know about a new design philosophy.
 

"BTW: I tested your routestring above with another flightplaning tool (PFPX), which allso follows all professional guidelines for route planing and it also came up with this "wrong" result"
I do not have PFPX.
But, I just tested it using another flight planning program SimBrief and got the same good results as with FSBuild (screenshot).


 

post-10883-0-55279800-1391890717_thumb.j

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