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Joned

Including a hold pattern in a flight plan (answered & solved)

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I have just downloaded FSC 9 including Database Manager 9.6 from Aerosoft ,and using FSX. I hope that's enough information for you.

Wow, what a brilliant product !

I'm sure its because I'm new to this software, but I did a search and can't find the answer, so here goes......

I want to add (include) a holding pattern to a flight plan to make it the same as the published chart. I created the hold circuit correctly and selected the appropriate VOR to be used as the fix. I selected 'add to map' which it did correctly. It shows clearly on the map view as a holding pattern within the flight plan.

 

The VOR name remains in the flight plan panel as original without the holding pattern detail (this may be correct I don't know). However, when the flight plan is saved FSX does not contain the holding pattern. I have experimented with other 'fixes' for the hold but still no holding pattern when saved to FSX.

 

Can you please explain what I'm doing wrong.

Regards and thanks for a great product.

 

Joned

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Hi Joned,

 

As in real life, the "HOLDING" is never part of a flight plan.

The "Holding" shows only the postion and size, as orientation, on the map.

 

Volker

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Thank you Volker. That's a shame as there are so may plates out there that require precision approaches etc that require a holding pattern, especially when flying a missed approach. So if a plate/chart specifies a holding pattern at a certain 'fix' it's up to the Sim pilot to workout it's position and entry point with no visual guidance from the loaded flight planner in FSC. Seems a bit precarious !

I suppose (though I haven't tried it yet) one could 'create' a holding pattern in FSX flight planner using 4 wave points, but it seems a bit crude.

 

Also, what's the point in having the facility in FSC to create a 'holding pattern' if it cannot be exported ? I think I'm definitely missing something here.

Regards Joned

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Hi Joned,

 

For clarification. A flightplan (as required by (ICAO) leads from the departure aerodrome to the destination aerodrome. For the route part of the flightplan, the routeing takes you to the IAF (Initial Approach Fix), if no IAF then the destination aerodrome (where a navigational aid will most surely be located).

 

If the country, where you fly requires the SID and the STAR, then these will be incorporated in the route part of the flight plan. After the IAF you have to select the correct approach required. If the approach requires a holding, it will be stated in the approach charts. To try and clarify a bit. A flight plan can be filed from 300 minutes until 60 minutes prior to ETA. If you file the plan 5 days before the ATD, you will not know which runway will be in use.

 

Another example, file a flight plan from EGLL to KSFO. The controller at EGLL does not know, which runway will be in use in 10-12 hours from the time the clearance is given. So he clears you to KSFO. When approaching KSFO, there may be some regulations, which require the entering of a holding pattern. So you enter the pattern. You have either to manually fly the pattern, or enter it in the FMC. Then your aircraft follows the FMC. You continue now to your IAF. If you do not receive an approach clearance, then you enter the HP. In some cases the FMC has the HP already in its routeing. Then just let the plane fly. If you are cleared for the approach, delete the holding.

 

The holding patterns drawn in the approach charts, are there, so that you know what to do, (which fix, standard holding (to the right), outbound track and inbound track as well as minimum holding altitude. If do not receive a clearance for the approach, just read your chart. All that you require is there for you.

 

I hope I have helped you some .

 

Regards

 

Terence

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Thank you Terence. Very informative.

I got a little confused as some charts I've seen actually specify a holding type pattern you must enter. Especially if approaching a runway from an acute angle. Going around the pattern lines the aircraft up for a straight in approach. Often there's only one runway amongst mounting terrain etc. So I thought the holding circuit, being part of the approach in these situations, would be included as part of the STAR. It certainly looks that way on the charts. The circuit  'Fix' being the IAF.

 

I know very little about FMC as I fly prop cargo planes that haven't got them. I guess I'll just have to stop being lazy and learn to fly the patterns manually. Would be nice though to experience the plane doing a circuit on autopilot as on the chart. As a side question. How do I disengage the autopilot to fly a holding pattern then re-engage it to continue on course ? Is it something to do with the OBS on the GPS ?

 

Thanks for your time explaining - it's a great forum.

Regards

Joned

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Good morning Joned,

 

you are welcome.

 

The STAR as a rule ends in a Holding pattern. If it is not necessary you will be cleared for the approach and follow the procedure immediately, if you are at the correct altitude for the approach. If for instance you are at FL170 and the approach procedure requires you to be at 5000 ft altitude, and do not have the possibility to descend (mountaineous terrain) then, you descend in the holding. 

 

Some countries require you to enter the HP, so that you can align yourself for the track leading to the FAF (final approach fix)

 

A private message is on the way to you.

 

For the Autopilot, disengage and reengage the AP by pushing the AP button on and off.

 

Have fun and best regards

 

Terence

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