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Baffling Control issues with P3D 3.1


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Hello gentlemen,

 

I posted this over at the LM forums aswell as I'm quite lost and would like to use all possible help I can get

 

just to chime in i have the exact same problem as a lot of people here it seems

using a saitek cessna yoke, which works fine, calibrates fine, works perfectly

however: my hotas warthog throttles do not! no matter what i do i cant get them to work, not through p3d itself nor fsuipc or anything else...

which is strange cause they worked fine for a long time now, they only suddenly stopped working today and now i cant get them back to function no matter what i try...

i tried deleting the p3d.cfg, standard controls xml file, reinstall of the drivers nothing works...windows recognizes the throttles just fine, so does p3d but they simply dont work when i assign them...

oh and: if i assign the throttle levers axis to say spoilers or flaps it works PERFECTLY fine....its just the throttle assigment that wont work!

frustrating to say the least...

Tobias

 

 

 

so, expanding on it, and this is also where FSUIPC comes into play:

 

I want to assign all my controls through fsuipc and fsuipc alone HOWEVER the issue quoted above prevents me from doing so

 

the "enable controls" checkbox is unchecked in p3d, aileron and elevators work just fine on my yoke, but the throttles still present a major problem for some reason

 

basically what i've discovered is the following:

 

1. If i assign a thorttle axis through the P3D controls they dont work, however assinging things like mixture or prop to the same physical throttle work just fine! 

 

2. If i assign a throttle axis through the FSUIPC send to FS as normal axis dialoge, same as 1. 

 

3. If i assign a throttle axis through the FSUIPC calibration, same as 1. 

 

4. If i assign a throttle axis through the FSUIPC send to FS as normal axis but WITH the "RAW" checkbox checked the throttle WORKS however it is inverted!

 

5. If i assign a throttle axis through the FSUIPC send to FS as normal axis as above and use the *-1 flag to invert it in the .ini file it STOPS working again...

 

i can reproduce this exact behavior with the hotas warthog throttle aswell as my saitek pro flight throttle that came with the cessna yoke.

 

using p3d 3.1, the latest FSUIPC version and windows 10, P3D is installed on a non-standard path, UAC on my system is disabled, I have tried a complete uninstall and reinstall of my controller drivers, and as quoted above i have deleted the standard xml and p3d.cfgs several times to no avail, even rolling back to p3d 3.0 does not solve the problem

 

there are no configuration or software changes to my machine within the last couple of days that could cause this issue to happen...so i am literally at the very end of my wisdom and utterly lost as to what to do

 

has anybody experienced issues like these before? any help would be greatly appreciated as i'm getting more and more frustrated with this

 

best 

 

Tobias

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the "enable controls" checkbox is unchecked in p3d, aileron and elevators work just fine on my yoke, but the throttles still present a major problem for some reason

 

basically what i've discovered is the following:

 

1. If i assign a thorttle axis through the P3D controls they dont work, however assinging things like mixture or prop to the same physical throttle work just fine! 

 

2. If i assign a throttle axis through the FSUIPC send to FS as normal axis dialoge, same as 1. 

 

3. If i assign a throttle axis through the FSUIPC calibration, same as 1. 

 

4. If i assign a throttle axis through the FSUIPC send to FS as normal axis but WITH the "RAW" checkbox checked the throttle WORKS however it is inverted!

 

5. If i assign a throttle axis through the FSUIPC send to FS as normal axis as above and use the *-1 flag to invert it in the .ini file it STOPS working again...

 

i can reproduce this exact behavior with the hotas warthog throttle aswell as my saitek pro flight throttle that came with the cessna yoke.

 

All that is very mysterious and I can't even hazard a guess as to what the problem could be. Item 5 above suggests that the range of values the axes are supplying is not in the acceptable range for throttles, yet default throttles (standard FS "Axis..." controls use -16384 to +16383 for the entries forward range.

 

Using *-1 to negate the raw entries must be putting them outside this. Which is inexplicable.

 

What range of "IN" values do you see in FSUIPC's Axis assignments page?

 

Rather than inverting axes using *-1 you should instead use the REV checkbox in the calibration screen.  Try assigning direct ot FSUIPC calibration, and in the Calibration tab, check REV before calibratin (when sing "direct to calibration" you MUST calibrate for proper results).

 

Actual numbers being seen might help clarify what is going on. FSUIPC works with numbers and these are always displayed, so it isn't hard to do. You might also enable axis logging in FSUIPc, which works no matter where or how you assign them. You can even see the resluts in real time by temporarily running FS/P3D in Windowed mode and enabling the FSUIPC Console Log in the Logging tab.

 

Pete

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Alright I'll compile a set of screenshots to show you exactly what i'm seeing

 

I'd rather just see the numbers which you can read yourself, and maybe the Log if you enable logging. Screenshots are usually unnecessary, over the top, and difficult to read in any case.

 

on a further note: after i made this post i tried with my old FSX:SE installation and they work just fine! which makes it even weirder....

 

 

In that case it seems like you are one of the many P3Dv3 users suffering some of the assorted mixed and odd problems with controls being reported regularly over in the L-M Forums. FSUIPC is no different in any of these areas whether used with P3D or FSX/FSX-SE. the only thing which might make a difference is your settings, so try using your FSX-SE copy of FSUIPC4.INI -- just make a copy in the P3D Modules folder.

 

Pete

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okay! 

 

sorry for the doublepost but here goes...

 

the range for the throttles, HOTAS Warthog throttles as i prefer those, is -16384 to +16383, so near "perfect" 

 

heres the throttle all the way back:

 

mVJs4l9.jpg

 

here all the way forward:

Xinfelh.jpg

 

 

and here the calibration tab:

9EQXwRO.jpg

 

 

doing this, the throttles do not respond in the simulator, they are clearly detected and working but alas, no response in the sim...

 

Tobias

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Didn't really want or need any pictures. Just the numbers would have done.

 

the range for the throttles, HOTAS Warthog throttles as i prefer those, is -16384 to +16383, so near "perfect" 

 

Only the one throttle for all engines?

 

Does the log I suggested you check show the Axis_Throttle_Set controls being sent to P3D with this range of values? If so then it's a P3D problem, but what it could be I don't know. I have P3D3.1 installed here on my test PC, and it works fine with a Saitek throttle assigned and calibrated in exactly the same way.

 

Maybe your P3D installation is wrong in some way?  Does it look all correct in the FSUIPC Lo (FSUIPC does a lot of checks when it starts and logs things). Maybe you need to reinstall.

 

Pete

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Yes one throttle for all engines, if i assign one as throttle 1 and the other as throttle 2 it wont work either, even with using the RAW checkbox and whatever else... 

 

It seems to be a P3D problem for sure, i just tried my FSX:SE fsuipc.ini and no change....still the same problems..

 

Yes the log does show the axis and correct values being send to P3D, the log itself looks fine too, but heres a short snippet from the log to check yourself

   349797 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 16383 (0x00003fff) THROTTLE_SET
   350985 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 15809 (0x00003dc1) THROTTLE_SET
   351031 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 12121 (0x00002f59) THROTTLE_SET
   351094 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 7463 (0x00001d27) THROTTLE_SET
   351141 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 1454 (0x000005ae) THROTTLE_SET
   351188 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -3630 (0xfffff1d2) THROTTLE_SET
   351235 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -7867 (0xffffe145) THROTTLE_SET
   351297 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -11397 (0xffffd37b) THROTTLE_SET
   351344 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -13417 (0xffffcb97) THROTTLE_SET
   351391 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -15257 (0xffffc467) THROTTLE_SET
   351438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -16384 (0xffffc000) THROTTLE_SET
   353313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -16083 (0xffffc12d) THROTTLE_SET
   353360 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -15813 (0xffffc23b) THROTTLE_SET
   353406 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -15483 (0xffffc385) THROTTLE_SET
   353453 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -15161 (0xffffc4c7) THROTTLE_SET
   353516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -14839 (0xffffc609) THROTTLE_SET
   353563 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -14579 (0xffffc70d) THROTTLE_SET
   353610 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -14273 (0xffffc83f) THROTTLE_SET
   353672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -13999 (0xffffc951) THROTTLE_SET
   353719 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -13701 (0xffffca7b) THROTTLE_SET
   353766 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -13427 (0xffffcb8d) THROTTLE_SET
   353813 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -13097 (0xffffccd7) THROTTLE_SET
   353875 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -12833 (0xffffcddf) THROTTLE_SET
   353922 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -12545 (0xffffceff) THROTTLE_SET
   353969 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -12281 (0xffffd007) THROTTLE_SET
   354078 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -12005 (0xffffd11b) THROTTLE_SET
   354125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -11703 (0xffffd249) THROTTLE_SET
   354172 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -11419 (0xffffd365) THROTTLE_SET
   354281 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -11105 (0xffffd49f) THROTTLE_SET
   354328 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -10829 (0xffffd5b3) THROTTLE_SET
   354422 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -10565 (0xffffd6bb) THROTTLE_SET
   354531 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -10287 (0xffffd7d1) THROTTLE_SET
   354688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -10013 (0xffffd8e3) THROTTLE_SET
   354828 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -9749 (0xffffd9eb) THROTTLE_SET
   354938 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -9469 (0xffffdb03) THROTTLE_SET
   355094 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -9195 (0xffffdc15) THROTTLE_SET
   355281 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -8931 (0xffffdd1d) THROTTLE_SET
   355438 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -8609 (0xffffde5f) THROTTLE_SET
   355547 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -8345 (0xffffdf67) THROTTLE_SET
   355594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -8057 (0xffffe087) THROTTLE_SET
   355688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -7765 (0xffffe1ab) THROTTLE_SET
   355750 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -7509 (0xffffe2ab) THROTTLE_SET
   355797 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -7239 (0xffffe3b9) THROTTLE_SET
   355891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -6975 (0xffffe4c1) THROTTLE_SET
   356000 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -6715 (0xffffe5c5) THROTTLE_SET
   356203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -6457 (0xffffe6c7) THROTTLE_SET
   356406 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -6201 (0xffffe7c7) THROTTLE_SET
   361110 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -5923 (0xffffe8dd) THROTTLE_SET
   361203 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -5607 (0xffffea19) THROTTLE_SET
   361313 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -5350 (0xffffeb1a) THROTTLE_SET
   361406 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -5076 (0xffffec2c) THROTTLE_SET
   361516 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -4816 (0xffffed30) THROTTLE_SET
   362016 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -4552 (0xffffee38) THROTTLE_SET
   362125 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -4274 (0xffffef4e) THROTTLE_SET
   362172 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -3998 (0xfffff062) THROTTLE_SET
   362266 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -3738 (0xfffff166) THROTTLE_SET
   362328 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -3450 (0xfffff286) THROTTLE_SET
   362375 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -3158 (0xfffff3aa) THROTTLE_SET
   362469 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -2876 (0xfffff4c4) THROTTLE_SET
   362578 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -2620 (0xfffff5c4) THROTTLE_SET
   362672 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -2346 (0xfffff6d6) THROTTLE_SET
   362781 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -2080 (0xfffff7e0) THROTTLE_SET
   362938 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -1820 (0xfffff8e4) THROTTLE_SET
   363031 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -1556 (0xfffff9ec) THROTTLE_SET
   363141 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -1292 (0xfffffaf4) THROTTLE_SET
   363235 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -1022 (0xfffffc02) THROTTLE_SET
   363344 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -744 (0xfffffd18) THROTTLE_SET
   363531 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -452 (0xfffffe3c) THROTTLE_SET
   363688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -188 (0xffffff44) THROTTLE_SET
   363891 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 70 (0x00000046) THROTTLE_SET
   364141 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 330 (0x0000014a) THROTTLE_SET
   366266 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 60 (0x0000003c) THROTTLE_SET
   366360 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -210 (0xffffff2e) THROTTLE_SET
   366469 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -474 (0xfffffe26) THROTTLE_SET
   366610 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -734 (0xfffffd22) THROTTLE_SET
   367625 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -476 (0xfffffe24) THROTTLE_SET
   367875 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -216 (0xffffff28) THROTTLE_SET
   368172 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 42 (0x0000002a) THROTTLE_SET
   368688 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 298 (0x0000012a) THROTTLE_SET
   370250 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 576 (0x00000240) THROTTLE_SET
   370453 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 846 (0x0000034e) THROTTLE_SET
   370594 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 1104 (0x00000450) THROTTLE_SET
   370703 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 1366 (0x00000556) THROTTLE_SET
   370906 ***  AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 1634 (0x00000662) THROTTLE_SET

the fact that it works just fine with fsx:se makes me pretty certain its a p3d issue unfortunately....and I dread a complete wipe and re-install of everything to be honest, hence I was trying to find a solution where I could avoid that but I guess theres none unless LM fix it...

 

thank you very very much for your help though Pete....always good to talk to somebody who knows what they're doing

 

Tobias

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he fact that it works just fine with fsx:se makes me pretty certain its a p3d issue unfortunately....and I dread a complete wipe and re-install of everything to be honest, hence I was trying to find a solution where I could avoid that but I guess theres none unless LM fix it...

 

Trouble is your problem doesn't looks quite the same as the others -- have you looked through the reports on the LM Forums? The fact that you have the same problems with two different devices is also suspicious. I think you at least need to try to repair P3D rather than just hope it'll come good in an update.

 

You know you can just uninstall the P3Dv3 Client and re-run just that installer? You'd have to do that on an update to 3.2 or whatever in any case, and it doesn't affect settings, scenery, add-ons etc. It just replaces all of the P3D program modules. Maybe make backup copies of tour Prepar3D.CFG, DLL.XML and EXE.XML files just in case, but I've never needed to on any of the main or Beta client updates.

 

Pete

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Yes, I'm aware of the Client installers...problem is I already tried rolling back to 3.0 to no avail, the issue still presists....so the next step would be a full wipe of the p3d install BUT, I don't know if thats gonna solve the issue...

 

I don't suspect there are any registry values p3d writes to save controller data? Outside of the standardcontrols.xml and calibration.xml with 3.1

 

I wish I had even a remote clue as to whats going on or whats causing this behaviour

 

Tobias

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Yes, I'm aware of the Client installers...problem is I already tried rolling back to 3.0 to no avail, the issue still presists....so the next step would be a full wipe of the p3d install BUT, I don't know if thats gonna solve the issue

 

Well, rolling back to 3.0 would have replaced all the modules in any case, so that rules out any corruption in that area.

 

...I don't suspect there are any registry values p3d writes to save controller data? Outside of the standardcontrols.xml and calibration.xml with 3.1

 

 

I don't think so, but even if it did those would be bypassed by FSUIPC sending the Axis controls directly with the proper parameters.

 

Sorry, I think you need to report the whole stoty to L-M on their Forum, including the fact that everythnig works on FSX-SE.

 

Pete

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just did a full wipe and clean reinstall of 3.0 aaaaaaand it works! everything is back to the way it should be...now for the laborious process of reinstalling addons one by one carefully

 

Hmm. Strange -- some other parameters elsewhere in the system, then. I think P3D3 must be storing stuff in files other than those I'm aware of in FSX.

 

Aren't you now going to update to 3.1?

 

Pete

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I haven't updated yet but I did find the offender that was causing the issue, but I do seem to be rather alone with that problem...

 

It was an interface dll for a standalone software that interfaces with the simulator, so removing that entry from the dll.xml fixed the issue, as it so often happens to be I could've saved myself and others a lot of time had i just tried a clean dll.xml....I'm in contact with the developer to see if it can be fixed though

 

Tobias

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I haven't updated yet but I did find the offender that was causing the issue, but I do seem to be rather alone with that problem...

 

It was an interface dll for a standalone software that interfaces with the simulator, so removing that entry from the dll.xml fixed the issue, as it so often happens to be I could've saved myself and others a lot of time had i just tried a clean dll.xml....I'm in contact with the developer to see if it can be fixed though

 

Can this DLL be named, so if others get the same issue it can be solved more speedily?

 

Pete

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its called  F1HOSTP3DV3.dll

 

I'd like to stress that I am not saying that its broken, as I am the only one its not working for it seems, they are investigating.

 

Okay. Thanks. Not heard of that one. I'd only useful to know if case others come up with the same symptoms. One more thing to check.

 

 I assume it's part of another product?  "F1" = "Flight 1" maybe?

 

Pete

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