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ttjager

Runway Crossing Instructions

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I hope this is the appropriate place for this suggestion/request.  If not, my apologies.

We really need a command that allows runway crossing instructions as part of the taxi clearance.  It really bogs down the flow when every aircraft stops at every runway intersection.  While that is mandatory for all aircraft without crossing instructions in RL, it is very common to issue crossing instructions as part of a taxi clearance and it's done all the time in RL.  My biggest issues involve aircraft landing at 25L and 24R at LAX.  I would love to be able to issue, "American 123. Cross runway 25R. Taxi to the ramp."  

I would consider this a major wishlist tweak that would keep the simulation highly realistic.  

Thanks for your consideration.  Love the sim guys!

TJ

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very true at LAX and would be handy, however there would be some  problems,  it is only true  at  those  airports  where  the  taxi  distance between  runway  centerlines  is  less  than  1,000  feet, multiple  runway  crossings  may  be  issued  with  a single clearance. (Not when it is more then 1000 Feet ) .

for those who love the whole phraseology in atc see FAA order  JO7110.64W ( see 3-7-3)  : https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/ATC.pdf

If  however they make some other AP: there are AP where never rwy crossing instructions are given with the taxi clearance. So not a easy choice i guess.

And for me then only one crossing should be alouwd to be given in a taxi clearance.

Cya in the tower :)

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Hi,

Just been playing KPHL and noticed if I give the command "Hold short of 27R" the a/c will cross runway 35/17 without stopping for clearance. This after giving the "Continue Taxi" when the a/c is on the ramp. If that command is not given the a/c stop at 35/17 and await clearance. From what I remember all traffic must stop before entering or crossing a runway to get clearance. Would appreciate any comments as to right or wrong way.

Alan

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I agree with Viper's comments.  The whole idea of runway crossing clearances it to keep the traffic flowing safely.  Having taxiing aircraft come to a complete stop before they will follow a command to cross an intersection is kind of crazy.  It's also frustrating to see them come to a complete stop every time they exit a runway even when they have a clearance to taxi to the ramp.  This would rarely happen in RL with a clear taxi clearance given on the runway.  Of course, the AC would usually be switching to ground to get that clearance and would stop until they receive it.  In the case of Tower 3D Pro, you're "one-holing" it and have all the tower positions combined into to one position (ramp tower, ground, and local - everything except clearance delivery).  

Kingsman's report of a possible "bug" might actually be a usable workaround for me until we get a runway crossing command.  I'll try it tonight.

Always thankful for this wonderful sim.  

TJ

P.S. For the old timers here . . . if there are any . . . I've been running ATC simulators all the way back to the original TRACON and TRACON-II by Wesson - a DOS program!!  When Chris Coons (a former ZLA controller) developed his ATCC simulator, I was the first beta tester (I even got my name in the credits of the printed and bound program manual!).  I've run TOWER 2011and TRACON 2012 . . . but this version of Tower 3D Pro is one of the best - by far.  Thanks!

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TJ,  I'm with you as an old timer.  Original Tracon and BAO tower to start.  Followed by most of the others.  I really liked ATCC (and still hoping Feel There develops their Center sIm).  Also enjoyed ATC Simulator and London Control.  I recently revisited I am an Air Traffic Controller (Japan and definitely different).  Tower 3dPro, however,  is a real keeper for sure even with some of the issues

  Chris. 

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haha TJ that where days Tracon and  DOS :) but i must say as well so far this is the best !

And indeed kingsman if no explicit "cleard to cross" is given , like in your case, the AC should stop before crossing 35/17.

I do want to make a note here this is FAA regulation, in some other country's however when this is not given but the AC needs to cross a inactive rwy and the taxy instruction is then over this rwy there is no need for a clearence to cross from atc.

It's funny thought always remember that pilots make mistakes as well, so keep your eye's always open and even if it's not right as now you know it, keep eye's very wide open and binoculars at hand :)

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Wow I remember Tracon, Tracon ll and bao tower. Quality sims of there time. Do I recall one of the Tracon's also allowed you to control military aircraft as well or was I dreaming this. :-))

Russell 

Sorry I've drifted from the main post.

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Folks - 

Kingsman's post is correct and it's a good workaround to get an aircraft to taxi across an active runway without stopping and waiting for a separate clearance . . . for now at least.  Using LAX as an example with aircraft landing on 25L and 24R and departing 25R and 24L.  When an aircraft is rolling out after landing, issue their "taxi to the ramp via . . . " clearance.  They'll acknowledge (and unfortunately come a to a complete stop on the taxiway after exiting the runway) and then begin their taxi.  At some point during the taxi, if you want them to continue across the parallel runway without stopping, instruct them to hold short of different runway - probably one on the other complex.  They will continue right across the runway you want them to cross and right to the gate.  It's a perfect "fix" in lieu of a working "cross runway XX, taxi to the ramp" clearance.  I love it!

Example:  AAL123 landed 25L, taxiing to the gate, approaching 25R.  You have just given UAL987 a clearance "Runway 25R, line-up and wait" and you want AAL to keep it rolling across 25R.  Simply tell AAL123 to "hold short of runway 24R" and they will roll right across 25R.  It's not RL, but in RL you would tell him to "cross 25R and taxi to the ramp" (maybe even expedite across 25R!).  This small hack accomplishes that goal.  

I'd prefer the proper RL clearance, but this works well.  :)

TJ

P.S.  It was TRACON II by Wesson that had a RAPCON military radar approach control that actually simulated working PAR approaches.  Pretty cool for the old days!

P.P.S.  I would pay a lot of money if FeelThere would develop an ARTCC sim.  I think it would be relatively easy to do compared to the incredibly graphic-intensive program Tower 3D Pro has become.  What a gem that is it!  Always thankful!

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3 hours ago, ttjager said:

 .P.S.  I would pay a lot of money if FeelThere would develop an ARTCC sim.  I think it would be relatively easy to do compared to the incredibly graphic-intensive program Tower 3D Pro has become.  What a gem that is it!  Always thankful!

Hey thanks for this, all.  I will have to check it out these crossing instructions

.  Regarding above, I too would love to see an ARTCC sim.  I recall a number of years ago they actually had it in the ATC suite system in the works.  The screen shots I saw were awesome.  Here's hoping.

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I used the workaround just as TJ described it in a session yesterday and it works nicely. I too would prefer the proper clearance but for now I guess this will have to do until we get the desired enhancement.

Craig

 

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We still have the ATCC sim in the back burner.
Currently we port T!2011 and Tracon!2012 to Steam and I expect to get it done relatively soon. We also have a big job that we will announce later this year (sometimes around the fall) but we'll see if we could sneak the ATCC in between them.

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5 hours ago, FeelThere said:

We still have the ATCC sim in the back burner.
Currently we port T!2011 and Tracon!2012 to Steam and I expect to get it done relatively soon. We also have a big job that we will announce later this year (sometimes around the fall) but we'll see if we could sneak the ATCC in between them.

You're teasing us!!!  :)

 

TJ

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Just found this topic.

 

It should be pinned or added to the handbook as long as there is no crossing instruction.

Every player I have met so far is missing a crossing command, is there any update on this issue?

 

Also if I am allowed to ask: Why are there no "Cross Runway" or "Give Way" commands anyway?
I guess the "after departue climb altitude 3000 upon reaching turn right heading 260" stuff is way more difficult to script and no one ever uses it.

 

Greetings!

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9 hours ago, Mike1997 said:

I guess the "after departue climb altitude 3000 upon reaching turn right heading 260" stuff is way more difficult to script and no one ever uses it.

On the contrary. I use this command when on parallel runway airports and simultaneous takeoffs, except it is either turn left/right 90 degrees or turn left/right heading 180/360 but I do not wait until they reach 3000 feet, I will have them turn at 500 feet .

RickyJ

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Thank you Folks for the suggestions . Seems like a Tower!3DX is needed :) We plan to announce the project we currently working on later this year. Once we finish this game then we plan to start working on the next version of Tower. As always I will open a topic and all these suggestions will be considered just like we did it for T!3D.

Vic

 

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