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gwilliamee

Brake Axis for XBOX controller

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hello Pete,

i use to fly with one X-BOX 360 controler and it's pretty good. I have a  G940 and Saitek pro flight yoke too, but i prefer the pad cause it's lighter to use and carry...

i would like to use the Z axis from the pad (LT and RT) as the brakes axis in the flight Simulator.

So i assigned the Z axis to RightBrake and LeftBrake but it don't work.

Right brake is ok, but Left brake is not because it's alrady braking down.

I ticked the box "Rev" but it don't seem to work too.

I gone into FSUIPC.ini and change values like this :

LeftBrake=-16380,0
RightBrake=0,16380

i tried too 

LeftBrake=0,-16380

RightBrake=0,16380

but don't work.

Please help,

Thanks in advance,

Greg

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i found the solution all alone.

RightBrake=0,16380
LeftBrake=0,16384/16

the 2 values are positive, no minus, only "Rev" ticked for the LeftBrake

Not logical for my brain but it works!

Think it can help somebody....

233228Fsuipc.png

630795Fsuipc2.png

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1 hour ago, gwilliamee said:

So i assigned the Z axis to RightBrake and LeftBrake but it don't work.

Many devices have a setting which splits the axis into left and right for you. Doesn#t yours do that?

Otherwise, you can't have the same axis assigned to both left and right brakes without doing some "fiddling" with the values.  Both sides will need 0 - 16384 (brakes off to full brake) and the other the same. However, your single axis will want to send -16384 fully pressed one way to +16384 the other way.

Making changes like this can be done in the FSUIPC4.INI file -- see the section entitled "Additional parameters to scale input axis values" on page 46 of the FSUIPC4 Advanced Users guide. You will have to adjust the values on the problem assignment to make it run from +16384  There's an example of that. The calibration will need setting to ignore values below zero on both sides.

Pete

 

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4 minutes ago, gwilliamee said:

finaly this solution is not good because i can only use as differential brakes, but not left and right together...

Ah, you DON'T want differential brakes? So just adjust the values to run 0-16384 for both assignments, from -16384 to +16384 that means ,*0,5,+8192 added to both assignment lines.

Pete

 

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YES i would like have differential brakes + brakes if i push the left and right together like my Logitech rudder pedal do.

Actualy with that changes i made, only differentials brakes works.

For example, If i start initialy brake with the left and i want to additionaly brake with the right one after for a straight braking, it cancell all. that means the left pedal come back to Zero position if i hit le right one.

i tried many many things, it's like a riddle i'm anable to solve... i'm realy bad in mathematics.

please tell me what should i write in the FSUPC.ini Peter, i surrender.

Thanks in advance

Greg

Edited by gwilliamee

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2 hours ago, gwilliamee said:

please tell me what should i write in the FSUPC.in

Exactly what I said and it shows in the document. I don't understand what you mean by 

2 hours ago, gwilliamee said:

Actualy with that changes i made, only differentials brakes works.

If you added exactly the same to both assignment lines, then both assignments will do the same at the same time -- which is what you said you wanted, no differeerantial braking!

It's only a few characters to add to two lines. where's the problem, please?

Pete

 

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Quote

which is what you said you wanted, no differeerantial braking!

No. Not what i wanted to say

 

Actualy, with changes that i made, i can use differencial braking... and i need it.

What is missing now is ability to brake with left and right together : Exactly the same we can do with a rudder pedal.

 

When we are landing we need to hit the two pedals to brake straight.

and when we are taxiing, we need the differencial braking to turn with.

So i need twice. 

Is it possible?

 

I'm realy sorry it's difficult to make me anderstable. I use google translator to speak with you.

And moreover i'm not very intelligent, most of the time that's difficult for me to anderstand very simple things...

I read again the user guide and what you explained to me but don't know what to do... Tried many things today, maybe spent 5 hours trying.

 

Please, could simply give me the lines. I wil do a COPY and PASTE in FSUIPC.ini,

or maybe you can modify directly .txt than i pasted just bellow in "quote"

 

Hope you will anderstand...

Thanks Peter.

Greg

 

Quote

[JoyNames]
AutoAssignLetters=No
0=Controller (XBOX One For Windows)
0.GUID={3DFE3C50-301F-11E6-8005-444553540000}
1=Saitek Pro Flight Yoke
1.GUID={CC6B7230-A06A-11E6-8005-444553540000}
2=Logitech G940 Joystick
2.GUID={5E0130E0-301D-11E6-8002-444553540000}
3=Logitech G940 Throttle
3.GUID={5E0130E0-301D-11E6-8003-444553540000}
4=Logitech G940 Pedals
4.GUID={5E0130E0-301D-11E6-8004-444553540000}
[AutoSave]
AutoSaveEnabled=No
[GPSout]
GPSoutEnabled=No
[GPSout2]
GPSoutEnabled=No
[Traffic Limiter]
TrafficLimit=0
[General]
Annotate=Yes
NewInterceptTextMenu=No
UseSystemTime=No
UseMidMouseBtn=Yes
MouseWheelMove=No
MouseWheelTrim=No
MouseWheelTrimSpeed=1
JoystickTimeout=20
PollGFTQ6=Yes
BlankDisplays=No
FixControlAccel=No
FixMachSpeedBug=No
NewDeleteVehiclesForAES=No
AutoScanDevices=Yes
AssignJoystickIDs=Yes
VisibilityOptions=No
OneCloudLayer=No
CloudTurbulence=No
CloudIcing=No
GenerateCirrus=No
SuppressCloudTurbulence=No
MaxIce=-4
MinIce=-4
UpperWindGusts=No
SuppressWindTurbulence=No
SuppressWindVariance=No
WindTurbulence=No
TurbulenceRate=1.0,5.0
TurbulenceDivisor=20,20,40,40
SuppressAllGusts=No
MaxSurfaceWind=0
WindLimitLevel=200
WindDiscardLevel=400
WindAjustAltitude=No
WindAjustAltitudeBy=2000
SmoothBySimTime=No
WindSmoothing=No
WindSmoothness=2
WindSmoothAirborneOnly=Yes
PressureSmoothness=0
TemperatureSmoothness=0
DisconnTrimForAP=No
ZeroElevForAPAlt=No
ThrottleSyncAll=No
WhiteMessages=No
ShowPMcontrols=No
SpoilerIncrement=512
MagicBattery=No
RudderSpikeRemoval=No
ElevatorSpikeRemoval=No
AileronSpikeRemoval=No
ReversedElevatorTrim=No
ClockSync=No
ClockSyncMins=5
ClearWeatherDynamics=No
OwnWeatherChanges=No
TimeForSelect=4
LoadFlightMenu=No
LoadPlanMenu=No
PauseAfterCrash=No
BrakeReleaseThreshold=75
SaveDataWithFlights=No
ZapSound=firework
ShortAircraftNameOk=Substring
UseProfiles=Yes
EnableMouseLook=No
DelayedMouseLookZoom=No
WideLuaGlobals=Yes
AxesWrongRange=No
TCASid=Flight
TCASrange=40
AxisCalibration=No
DirectAxesToCalibs=No
ShowMultilineWindow=Yes
SuppressSingleline=No
SuppressMultilineFS=No
AxisIntercepts=No
DontResetAxes=No
ThreadAffinityMask=x0
LuaAffinityMask=x0
InitDelay=0
GetNearestAirports=Yes
LogOptionProtect=Yes
OOMcheck=Yes
OOMcheckInterval=10
TimeForLuaClosing=2
WeatherReadFactor=2
WeatherRewriteSeconds=1
CustomWeatherModify=No
SimConnectStallTime=1
LuaRerunDelay=66
[WideServer]
WideFSenabled=Yes

[Buttons]
1=P0,34,C65758,0     -{FLAPS_INCR}-
2=P0,38,C65759,0     -{FLAPS_DECR}-
3=P0,9,K190,10     -{Key press: ctl+.>key}-
4=P0,5,K123,8     -{Key press: F12}-
5=P0,2,K120,8     -{Key press: F9}-
6=R0,0,K190,8     -{Key press: .>key}-
7=P0,1,K71,8     -{Key press: G}-
8=P0,3,K90,8     -{Key press: Z}-
9=R0,4,K222,8     -{Key press: #~key}-
10=R0,32,K36,8     -{Key press: Home}-
11=R0,36,K35,8     -{Key press: End}-
12=R1,20,K113,8     -{Key press: F2}-
23=P0,8,K191,8     -{Key press: /?key}-
24=P1,15,K190,10     -{Key press: ctl+.>key}-

[Axes]
0=0X,256,D,1,0,0,0    -{ DIRECT: Aileron }-
1=0Y,256,D,2,0,0,0    -{ DIRECT: Elevator }-
2=0Z,256,D,7,8,0,0    -{ DIRECT: LeftBrake, RightBrake }-
3=0U,256,D,3,0,0,0    -{ DIRECT: Rudder }-
4=1Z,256,D,4,0,0,0    -{ DIRECT: Throttle }-
5=1U,256,D,5,0,0,0    -{ DIRECT: PropPitch }-
6=1V,256,D,6,0,0,0    -{ DIRECT: Mixture }-

[JoystickCalibration]
AllowSuppressForPFCquad=Yes
ExcludeThrottleSet=Yes
ExcludeMixtureSet=Yes
ExcludePropPitchSet=Yes
SepRevsJetsOnly=No
ApplyHeloTrim=No
UseAxisControlsForNRZ=No
FlapsSetControl=0
FlapDetents=No
ReverserControl=66292
Reverser1Control=66422
Reverser2Control=66425
Reverser3Control=66428
Reverser4Control=66431
MaxThrottleForReverser=256
AileronTrimControl=66731
RudderTrimControl=66732
CowlFlaps1Control=66162
CowlFlaps2Control=66163
CowlFlaps3Control=66164
CowlFlaps4Control=66165
SteeringTillerControl=0
MaxSteerSpeed=60
Aileron=-16380,-512,512,16380
Elevator=-16380,-512,512,16380
Rudder=-16380,-512,512,16380
Throttle=-16380,16380
PropPitch=-16384,14592
Mixture=-16380,16128
LeftBrake=0,-16384
RightBrake=0,+16383

 

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Hi,

what is the working/ usable range value of your 'Z' axis, -16384 to 16383 or 0 to 16383 (ish), and what is the value of the 'Z' axis for brakes OFF/ released?

Thomas

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the total working / usable range value of 'Z' axis is -16384 to 16383 but split in two trigger (LT and RT)

Wen LT and RT are released, the value is ZERO

when i hit LT, range is between 0 and -16384

and when i hit RT, value is between 0 and +16384

403990LTRT.jpg

 

with that changes differential brake is possible.

Quote

LeftBrake=0,16384/16
RightBrake=0,16383

But if i hit RT + LT for a straight braking, brakes come to ZERO

 

 

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Hi,

but that means it is not possible to use the LT and RT for left and right brake. It would be only possible to use one for both brakes, the other one would be useless. The reason is that only if one is pressed the value changes from 0 to 16383 or 0 to -16384 but in case there are two poti used that the value will be 0 (zero) as well when both, LT & RT, are pressed at the same time (what is your problem).

So if none is pressed or both are pressed results in a value of 0 (zero), brakes released. I don't see a possible solution for that because if you i.e. press both slowly in synchron down then already the Z value will be around 0 (zero), as said the both poti will electronically equalize.

Thomas

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Ok Thomas, that makes sense to me but it seems Pete saids that's possible

Quote

Many devices have a setting which splits the axis into left and right for you. Doesn#t yours do that?

Otherwise, you can't have the same axis assigned to both left and right brakes without doing some "fiddling" with the values.  Both sides will need 0 - 16384 (brakes off to full brake) and the other the same. However, your single axis will want to send -16384 fully pressed one way to +16384 the other way.

Making changes like this can be done in the FSUIPC4.INI file -- see the section entitled "Additional parameters to scale input axis values" on page 46 of the FSUIPC4 Advanced Users guide. You will have to adjust the values on the problem assignment to make it run from +16384  There's an example of that. The calibration will need setting to ignore values below zero on both sides.

Pete

 

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3 hours ago, gwilliamee said:

What is missing now is ability to brake with left and right together : Exactly the same we can do with a rudder pedal.

Ah, well, how can you press both left and right together? If you cannot you will have to use the . keypress or a button programmed just to "Brakes". It sounds like you are asking the impossible.

Pete

 

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haha! hoho... so how it gone my day!?... Trying to find a solution that did not exist :'-)
However thanks you for your answers and Thomas for trying to help me too ;-)

Peter, i wanted to tell my gratitude for your contribution to flight simulation world.

And i would like to encourage you for the FSUIPC 64bits version!
Good luck Pete and happy flying!!

Greg

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Hello,

Can i add something?...

This morning i just remebered that :

When i practice my driving simulators like "Project Cars" or "Assetto Corsa" for example,

by default, "Z" axis is used for braking (LT) and (RT) for  acceleration. 
This axis is recognized as only one axis inside the configurator....

But when you drive on a circuit, you have to play betwin braking and acceleration all together to keep grip in a curve... And that's perfectly reproducted into this simulators. 

If you brake with "LT" it do not cancel the acceleration with "RT". You can act them together.


How can it be possible Peter?

if driving simulation can do it, why flight simultion can't?

 

Greg

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1 hour ago, gwilliamee said:

If you brake with "LT" it do not cancel the acceleration with "RT". You can act them together.


How can it be possible Peter?

You can press it both ways together?  I'm now confused. Is it two pedals or one bendy one?

If there's only one axis input, vaying from say -16384 to +16383, the standard range, with 0 in the middle, how are you maipulating it to get to the +16383 side without it changing from -16384 and through zero? How does your driving thing know that you are going to press the brake when you have the accelerator pressed, or vice versa?

I used to do F1 racing on a sim using two pedals, one accelerator and the other brake. The pedals had a "rudder" option which effectively linked the two so you couldn't try to make the rudder go two ways at the same time. Is yours like that? If so, use the switch to separate the pedals if you want separate braking.

Pete

 

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37 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

You can press it both ways together?  I'm now confused. Is it two pedals or one bendy one?

this is one axis but slipt in two triggers

and yes i can press both together.

403990LTRT.jpg

Quote

If there's only one axis input, vaying from say -16384 to +16383, the standard range, with 0 in the middle, how are you maipulating it to get to the +16383 side without it changing from -16384 and through zero? How does your driving thing know that you are going to press the brake when you have the accelerator pressed, or vice versa?

don't know how they do that... But this is repeated in many driving simulations. And driving with the X-BOX one joypad is not so bad. The analog sticks have a pretty good accuracy.

Maybe one day, you can get a hand on one of these pad and try to by yourself?

 

Quote

I used to do F1 racing on a sim using two pedals, one accelerator and the other brake. The pedals had a "rudder" option which effectively linked the two so you couldn't try to make the rudder go two ways at the same time. Is yours like that? If so, use the switch to separate the pedals if you want separate braking.

i would like to forget my rudder pedals. To put them in a closet, or sell them... in my case that's too heavy and it takes too much place in my tiny small room.

Purpose is to do every thing with the XBOX one pad  (+ the Saitek PZ45 throttle quadrant for gaz in flight simulation.)

Actualy that's possible in driving simulators.

Can you make it possible in Flight simulator Peter?

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36 minutes ago, gwilliamee said:

don't know how they do that.

Maybe when you press one side or the other it also presses a button. Have you checked? You could make it work with a button detected. But it would need to be a Lua plug-in programmed to handle it.

What do you use for a rudder if you are using what it effectively a rudder pedal arrangement for brakes only? Surely a rudder is more inportant? for brakes it's just as easy to use one or two buttons.

Pete

 

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53 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Maybe when you press one side or the other it also presses a button. Have you checked? You could make it work with a button detected. But it would need to be a Lua plug-in programmed to handle it.

i don't think so because action is accurate , not like a boutton do (on/off) 

You can use brake and acceleration together very precisely with only one Z axis .

i don't know how they do and i would like to check that, to report it to you

may be i can find a program on the web?

 

53 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

What do you use for a rudder if you are using what it effectively a rudder pedal arrangement for brakes only? Surely a rudder is more inportant? for brakes it's just as easy to use one or two buttons

it should be nice if i can use brake with an axis, to not block the wheels.

For a realistic simulation -for example- with the Lancair Legacy from RealAir, the nosewheel is free-castoring, that is to say it is not linked to the rudder. You need to use differential braking to steer while taxiing. Old birds from A2A they do the same.

for the RUDDER, i arrange axis like this :

312475Xboxonefront.jpg

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18 minutes ago, gwilliamee said:

i don't think so because action is accurate , not like a boutton do (on/off) 

No, you misunderstand. The button would only indicate that you were switching the axis from accelerator to brake or vice versa, and to hold the other setting.

The pic you've posted looks very much like my Microsoft SideWinder which I use occasionally for  assorted tests, However, the buttons on the front, which you've labelled brakes, are buttons, not a single axis -- you are saying both buttons are the same axis with variable values being input!

I am certainly not understanding muchof any of this. You tell me you have one axis. But show two separate brakes. The "Z axis" label is presumable that white knob with the cross on it?

I think you might be in the wrong place. You need a forum dealing with that device. Once you understand what it is doing then maybe you can program it to do what you want?

Pete

 

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26 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

However, the buttons on the front, which you've labelled brakes, are buttons, not a single axis

Yes i know that, the buttons you are talking about are named RB and LB and yes they are not axis,

but in fact i just wanted to show all in only one picture.

So look at these picture

317562LTRT.jpg

Quote

I think you might be in the wrong place. You need a forum dealing with that device. Once you understand what it is doing then maybe you can program it to do what you want?

I know that a lot of people use a joypad for flight simulation.

and every joypad work with this same Z axis, split in half, not only the Xbox one.

LT go from 0 to -16380 and RT go from 0 to +16380

LT range + RT range = Z (from -16380 to +16380)

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19 minutes ago, gwilliamee said:

LT go from 0 to -16380 and RT go from 0 to +16380

LT+RT = Z (from -16380 to +16380)

Yes, and you CAN handle that in FSUIPC but maybe not by a simple assignment, even with a bit of filddling at the end of the assignment line.

The easiest way is via a simple Lua plug-in, to receive the values, test the sign, and send (after negation for the LT one) to either left or right brake.

But you STILL cannot get both brakes together, which was your original problem. How would YOU propose using those both for separate and both brakes together. what signals to the PC that 'both' is what you want - because in order for RT to got towards 16384, LT would reduce to 0.

Do you see the problem now? I don't see how it is possible with one axis to know your intention. it cannot read your mind.

Pete

 

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37 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

I don't see how it is possible with one axis to know your intention

may be by creating a third option in FSUIPC4,

actualy there are two options= left brake and right brake,

a third option would be "center brake" and could be link with the Z axis, or another axis (my V axis is available)

 

37 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

The easiest way is via a simple Lua plug-in, to receive the values, test the sign, and send (after negation for the LT one) to either left or right b

Don't realy anderstand what is a Lua, but may be it can recognize when LT and RT are press together and determine that is egual to a new action, witch could be sent to a third option like "central brake"

Don't it?

646805Xboxonefront.jpg488858LTRT.jpg

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12 minutes ago, gwilliamee said:

may be by creating a third option in FSUIPC4,

actualy there are two options= left brake and right brake,

a third option would be "center brake" and could be link with the Z axis, or another axis (my V axis is available)

There's no "center brake" axis in FS.  All you need to do, since you have a spare axis, is assign it to bother Left Brke and Right Brake in the same assignment tab. You can assign up to 4 thinmgs to the one axis. that's why there are 4 slots, if you look.

What I was saying was how impossible it it to do that as well as left and right with one axis!

12 minutes ago, gwilliamee said:

but may be it can recognize when LT and RT are press together and determine that is egual to a new action

Oh dear. We go back a few messages now. Since, you say, LT and RT are ONE AXIS there's only ONE VALUE, -16384 to +16384, depending which side you pressed. One axis input CANNOT GIVE TWO DIFFERENT VALUES AT THE SAME TIME!!! So how can anything detect both pressed as the sme time?

It there were two separate axes there'd be no problem in the first place!

Pete

 

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