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KLAS Intersecting Runways?

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Just a quick question -- at KLAS I had a departure on 25R and an arrival on 19L. Told the 19L arrival to hold short of intersecting runway 25R for crossing traffic. The 19L arrival acknowledged that. So when 25R a/c started rolling and 19L landed, I got a -500 point deduction for runway incursion. So my question is how does one treat intersecting runways so you can take advantage of two runways? Game log attached (see 08:13:12 in the log).

Thx

SK

game.log

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Similar thing happened to me.  Make sure the departure is airborne or they are separated enough before they are both on the runway.  I agree, I don't think that should be a penalty and it doesn't allow maximum efficient use.  I mostly like the 25R (takeoff) 25L (landing) configuration, but it is nice to open the 19's when needed.  I suppose had you used 19R for landing it still would have dinged you?  

Edit:  this has also happened to me at Philly when I had departures off of 27R at E and landings on 35.  You can't start the departures takeoff roll until the 35 lander is passed the runway.  

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An excerpt from the FAA's Air Traffic Organization Policy (JO 7110.65W) 

3−9−8. INTERSECTING RUNWAY/INTERSECTING FLIGHT PATH OPERATIONS
a. Issue traffic information to each aircraft operating on intersecting runways.
b. Separate departing aircraft from another aircraft using an intersecting runway by ensuring that the departure does not begin takeoff roll until one of the following exists:
REFERENCE−FAAO JO 7110.65, Para 2−1−21, Traffic Advisories.
1. The preceding aircraft has departed and passed the intersection or is turning to avert any conflict. 
2. A preceding arriving aircraft is clear of the landing runway, completed the landing roll and will hold short of the intersection, or has passed the intersection. 

Looking at the log - please don't get mad at me Vic ;) - the departing airplane was SWA1684 and landing airplane was DAL1479. The runway alert occurred while both airplanes were on their perspective intersecting runways but before both planes had officially taken off and landed. I believe to avoid the runway incursion, DAL1479 would need to have successfully landed (DAL1479 Successful landing +10 pts message is displayed) prior to SWA1684 rolling for departure.

So, based on the policy it looks like the incursion and point reduction was warranted. 

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Hey Crbascott -- what date was that excerpt from? I have been doing a lot of research on this issue and it appears from various graphics I have found on the web on RL pilot's sites, there are a number of different interpretations of this. For instance, point 2 says "...A preceding arriving aircraft is clear of the landing runway, completed the landing roll..." There is IMO, a word missing between "landing runway" and "completed" because obviously one can't be clear of the landing runway without completing the landing roll. Perhaps the word "or" should be in there. That would support your interpretation.

The AOPA Safety site has a number of graphics showing simultaneous departing and landing traffic being approved for intersecting runways without the landing roll complete (i.e. the landing aircraft is just touching down on their active runway).

What may be happening is that there is FAA policy and then what happens in real life. Thanks for the excerpt and I would hate to have to code this logic.... Perhaps in the manual, this could be clarified (i.e. In the case of intersecting runways, clearance for a departure cannot be given until the Successful landing message has been shown).

Are there any RL controllers on the forum that could provide some insight into this?

Regards,

SK

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There's a few versions out there but I found one that will be going into effect on Oct 12, 2017 -https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/JO_7110.65X_Air_Traffic_Control.pdf - the wording for this section hasn't changed.

The AOPA may show some things from a pilot's perspective, but I would think controllers not using/following their policy wouldn't go over too well.

 

 

 

 

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This is the reason I bring the planes in from the south most often (1L).  While the runways intersect, the landing planes on 1 are beyond the crossing runway and you can get them taking off sooner.

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36 minutes ago, Fizziii said:

This is the reason I bring the planes in from the south most often (1L).  While the runways intersect, the landing planes on 1 are beyond the crossing runway and you can get them taking off sooner.

Yep, definitely easier but in RL based on prevailing winds this configuration is only used about 13% of the time.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/profiles/media/LAS-Airport-Capacity-Profile-2015.pdf

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On 9/29/2017 at 3:58 PM, crbascott said:

Yep, definitely easier but in RL based on prevailing winds this configuration is only used about 13% of the time.

https://www.faa.gov/airports/planning_capacity/profiles/media/LAS-Airport-Capacity-Profile-2015.pdf

I can understand that based on winds.  I've been burned at JFK before though.  Have a flight taking off and get penalized by a plan who would be intersecting long before it reaches the crossing intersection.  I'm pretty sure I've been penalized by planes after getting official landing notification, but before they've turned off onto the taxiways.

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On 10/2/2017 at 6:49 AM, Fizziii said:

 

I can understand that based on winds.  I've been burned at JFK before though.  Have a flight taking off and get penalized by a plan who would be intersecting long before it reaches the crossing intersection.  I'm pretty sure I've been penalized by planes after getting official landing notification, but before they've turned off onto the taxiways.

 

Even thought i see your point but i think the game looks for if the path of the plane cross and not the likely hood of them crashing

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ml0130.  Yeah, I learned what the game is looking at and how it's affected me.  I try to be a lot more conscious of intersecting runways now after learning my lessons.

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