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airforce2

Steering using steering axis, not rudder [was in topic FSUIPC FSLABS A320 P3Dv4]

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13 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Why does the nose wheel turn with rudder deflection in any case, if the rudder is for handling hight airspeeds? .

runway steering at low speeds (using limited pedal controlled nosewheel steering) is required as the rudder is ineffective for direction control until 30 or 40kts.... but then as you wrote, becomes effective at higher speed is the dominant / more effective control with bigger rudder deflections than 7o possible (& shortly after pedal & tiller nosewheel steering is disconnected as oleo pressure comes off the nosegear). The 7o limit is controlled via the nosegear hydraulics etc. somehow (in the real).

using the tiller at these lower speed is not only a tad dangerous but with the PF's one hand on yoke, the other on throttle, the only z axis option is your feet (& not all 2 pilot aircraft have a tiller on the starboard side).

16 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Is that a universal limit, applicable to all aircraft? Because I would have thought that was a function of the add-on aircraft design, not a built-in simulator imposition. A 7 degree steering limit certainly sounds wrong for, say, a 737, which can turn on taxiways in not much more than its own length.

7o roughly speaking for cat C & above aircraft ...... which use the tiller with about 70-80o deflection on taxiways / lineup / turnbacks etc.

 

16 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Have you tested that guess?

sort of ......... with P3D43 steering (66818) set / rudder (65696) set with the ngx, I see diminished nosewheel deflection with speed) but increased rudder control and deflection (thru the pedals), it's just that at low speed the pedal steer deflects the nosewheel towards 70o (ie not limited to 7o).

cheers john

ps ..pete / thomas, thank you both for your thoughts in the above

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7 hours ago, vadriver said:

it's just that at low speed the pedal steer deflects the nosewheel towards 70o (ie not limited to 7o).

That's a shame. I'm sure the aircraft designer's could sort that out. The only way I can think of dealing with it externally to P3D or aircraft code is to continually re-write the rudder deflection setting via SimConnect, much as the FSUIPC "magic battery" option does for the battery voltage.  I suppose I might be able to intercept rudder axis controls and alter the parameter, but I'm not sure that will work with all aircraft. PMDG oes tend to do their own interception for example.

But your original complaint was not being able to observe the animation of the rudder when doing the pre-flight checks. Going back to what you said:

" In FSX & now P3D43, I've preferred to use "fsuipc direct to" for assigning a tiller (twist) axis on a LPro3D & the rudder to (Saitek) pedals along with MaxSteerSpeed=-60 .... but lament the "nuisance" of not seeing the correct animations inside (LDu Sys) & outside the aircraft for a controls check before taxi (turning the tiller moves the rudder !!)."

I realise I still don't fully understand the problem. The MaxSteerSpeed facility operates when FSUIPC blends its Direct Tiller input with the rudder input. and as you say, both use the rudder. So you should be able to do your rudder movement check on the ground (but using the tiller axis movement).

Now the problem seems to have morphed into being one about a 7 degree limit rather than about the animation. Or is it both? If the 7 degree limit is somehow imposed, then FSUIPC's own Tiller won't be any use because, as you say, you need up to 70 degrees. Does the sim's built-in Steering axis use the rudder too?

With the FSUIPC blending facility perhaps I could not limit the Rudder Axis input when the Ground speed is zero (say) or the Parking Brake is on, so you could perform rudder checks before starting to taxi out. Would that work for you? Using the FSUIPC steering, though, since it uses the rudder for steering, there's no way to limit the latter to 7 degrees and have any useful steering when taxiing.

Pete

 

 

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Pete

Thanks again for your notes.

  • To clarify, my original "lament" is solely the fact that in the NGX the animations (not the effect) on the ngx responding to fsuipc direct tiller / rudder axis are incorrect .... & that I thus can't check the rudder moves with pedal input (including that my pedals are in working order). MaxSpeedSet is as intended & observed to limit pedal nosewheel steer.
  • But having noted the inclusion in P3D43 of "steering (tiller steer) set" / "rudder ( nosewheel steer / rudder control) set" axis' and setting those with fsuipc to sim, the NGX animations are correct but I need to be careful that I don't oversteer with pedal nosewheel steering at modest speed until the rudder takes over.

If I recollect correctly, Aerosoft's "workaround" with their FSX Airbus (using the throttle #3 axis as a tiller axis somehow) gives correct animations & pedal nws limits when appropriate.  (?) I have no direct knowledge of the FSL or other PMDG etc. aircraft. I have asked PMDG for their advice in this.

In the meantime, apart from thinking there needs to be 3 axis, tiller nws, pedal nws & rudder (aerodynamic) control .... with appropriate blending & limits, the remaining question becomes whether one can / could set a key to toggle the tiller axis off & on for the controls check.

 

 

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1 hour ago, vadriver said:

the remaining question becomes whether one can / could set a key to toggle the tiller axis off & on for the controls check.

I will implement a check on Ground Speed being 0 ( or less than a parameter value which you can set), and if so then NOT limit the rudder. So there would be a lower GS limit on the blending as well as the higher one (MaxSteerSpeed).

I think that will be sufficient. and better than having to switch anything off and on with an assigned button or key.

I don’t see a need to stop the tiller. You don’t want to use that for the rudder check in any case, surely? Just leave it alone for the check.

Pete

 

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Interim release 5.132c includes a new parameter alongside MaxSteerSpeed: "RudderBlendLowest". This gives a ground speed below which the rudder input is used fully with no tiller use. The parameter defaults to 1 knot, so the aircraft needs to be stationary (or very close to stationary).

Pete

 

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pete

many thanks for the 5.132c release ....... did a startup, taxi & a few RTO's with fsuipc tiller / rudder direct (MSS Q0,30,0,60) ....... cockpit animations, controls check, limited pedal nws & rudder control blend spot on.

but as you forecast, tiller nws during taxi (moving) still deflects the rudder ..... but whose watching (though i'll set RBL=5/10 to see whatever) !!

i'll give your update a mention at the pmdg forum ... I'm sure there'll be more than a few use / appreciate it.

cheers john

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6 hours ago, vadriver said:

but as you forecast, tiller nws during taxi (moving) still deflects the rudder

But whilst taxiing, surely you should be in the cockpit looking where you are going?

Pete

 

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21 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

But whilst taxiing, surely you should be in the cockpit looking where you are going?

of course pete ....... it's those curious PATC controllers that keep asking if I'm ready to go ??

john

ps .... finally found the attached about the airbus320 etc. it will be interesting to see what aerosoft offer this week on their P3DV4 release, given P3D4's inclusion of a "steering set" axis assignment.

nws.pdf

rudder.pdf

Edited by vadriver
xtra

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