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MJKERR

Tower 2011 - EGLL (Heathrow) - advice

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On 9/17/2019 at 7:31 PM, mjkerr said:

1
ALG airport is still returning an error 
ALG 36.41 N 3.12 E DAAG
Returns
ALG(IATA) ICAO not found

Solved this one as well now
Initially it looked like the airport, it was actually the airline setup that was incorrect 
I had typed HF instead of KF, for Air Belgium

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On 9/16/2019 at 7:10 PM, mjkerr said:

What does the following mean :
RUNWAY CROSS ERROR 
9L - 27R
RUNWAY CROSS ERROR
27R - 9L
RUNWAY CROSS ERROR
9R - 27L
RUNWAY CROSS ERROR
27L - 9R

I have spent the last few days finishing of the EGLL timetable (as at September 2019), for Tower 2011 
It has taken some poetic justice in some parts

I am now only left with one error, as above

The main issue I am left with is the lack of aircraft leaving a stand when they are not required 
As a result they are blocking a stand for a considerable time when they would either be moved to a Ramp or maintenance (just to get the removed from a Terminal)

One example are the two morning British  Airways A388 which are then moved until they are required again until the afternoon
As a result this blocks two Terminal gates, from 06:00 to 14:00

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3 minutes ago, mjkerr said:

I have spent the last few days finishing of the EGLL timetable (as at September 2019), for Tower 2011 
It has taken some poetic justice in some parts

I am now only left with one error, as above

The main issue I am left with is the lack of aircraft leaving a stand when they are not required 
As a result they are blocking a stand for a considerable time when they would either be moved to a Ramp or maintenance (just to get the removed from a Terminal)

One example are the two morning British  Airways A388 which are then moved until they are required again until the afternoon
As a result this blocks two Terminal gates, from 06:00 to 14:00

Be sure to save your work.  Tower2011 timetables are the same format as those for Tower 3D, so it will work whenever they release EGLL for T3D

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Quote

The main issue I am left with is the lack of aircraft leaving a stand when they are not required 
As a result they are blocking a stand for a considerable time when they would either be moved to a Ramp or maintenance (just to get the removed from a Terminal)

One example are the two morning British  Airways A388 which are then moved until they are required again until the afternoon
As a result this blocks two Terminal gates, from 06:00 to 14:00

Unquote

Both Tower 2011 & Twr 3D load many hrs, up to 8, in advance of the time selected. Do what most of us do & break your schedule up into blocks. Different custom schedulers vary how much they put into each schedule block. Look at the various custom schedules to see how each does it. For me I usually start the schedule about 15 mins before the selected hour & about 2 hrs after the selected time. e.g. for a 1000hr schedule my schedule would be from 0945 to 1159. The only trick is to make sure that you have a departure early in the time frame. The game starts with the first departure. 

This might explain why you have aircraft sitting at the terminal all day. Neither program has the facility to tow A/C off the stand into a holding area. That has been requested for the next version of Twr3D .

Kev M

 

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4 hours ago, 707FAN said:

Both 2011 & Twr 3D load many hrs, up to 8, in advance of the time selected. Do what most of us do & break your schedule up into blocks. Different custom schedulers vary how much they put into each schedule block. Look at the various custom schedules to see how each does it. For me I usually start the schedule about 15 mins before the selected hour & about 2 hrs after the selected time. e.g. for a 1000hr schedule my schedule would be from 0945 to 1159. The only trick is to make sure that you have a departure early in the time frame. The game starts with the first departure. 

This might explain why you have aircraft sitting at the terminal all day. Neither program has the facility to tow A/C off the stand into a holding area. That has been requested for the next version of Twr3D .

 

There is not actually an issue of needing to split the timetable into blocks, I have tried various start times and just a few aircraft are dropped
Thankfully they are usually the "minor" European destinations, so nicely fit into the "Flight cancelled" category! 

The two active runways usually swap at 15:00
Therefore the game is best started at 07:00 or 15:00
Although there are some flights between 04:00 and 07:00 it is not a great issue 
Equally, most of the flights end at 23:00

What I discovered very early on was the person that designed EGLL has either made a small error or cut a corner...
Terminal 5A is predominantly European flights, B744 and A388 are very rare, this I have corrected 
One taxi route from Terminal 5A is missing, not an issue it has not caused any problems yet 
Four stands are missing  adjacent to Terminal 5A, which are used at peak times, I need to work out how to add these
524, 525, 526 and 527 
Ironically, I have been on a BA flight that arrived at stand 527

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4 hours ago, 707FAN said:

This might explain why you have aircraft sitting at the terminal all day. Neither program has the facility to tow A/C off the stand into a holding area. That has been requested for the next version of Twr3D .

I have been looking at this, specific to the British Airways A388 
Other airlines A388 tend to arrive, sit on stand for up to 3 hours then depart 

In the past the British Airways A388 used to sit for up to 3 hours then depart or swap 
However this years timetable has seen a change where the three morning arrivals allow for maintenance swaps, as a result they are moved back to the Terminal 6 hours later 
Last year there were two serious A388 breakdowns which impacted the international schedule, and this year there has been one so far 

One solution is to use the 2015 or 2016 International A388 schedule, then edit some impact that may have on existing flights 

Another is to swap A388 into a B744 or B777 flight, to the same destination 
One example is LAX, where the A388 lands and a B744 departs a few hours later
Converting the departure into a A388 solves that, but then leaves an issue for the incoming B744 so I need to find out what it would then be assigned to

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5 hours ago, mjkerr said:

One solution is to use the 2015 or 2016 International A388 schedule, then edit some impact that may have on existing flights 

Sadly it looks like I have deleted my 2015 International A388 schedule

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Found a 2015 International A388 schedule 
Noticed straight away LHR BOS with 8 flights, my spreadsheet only had 6 
Correcting this has solved the issue with one A380 freeing up the required Terminal for the late morning arrival

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Last week I spent my second week at EGLL operations, vastly more experience of Terminal 2 (last month at Terminal 5)
It is great to see my experience of the airport transferring to my understanding of ATC

Spent the last three days refining EGLL
Sadly scunnered by the Winter 2019 timetable coming into effect, so some changes required (most noticeable so far is Air Canada)
Why can't airlines make them easy to download and save?!

I have gone as far as I can with British Airways / Terminal 5 (too many aircraft and options, so what I have works for me) 
Copying the BAW aircraft files now means all British Airways aircraft have livery, except the A388 (as it would appear was never created for Tower 2011)
A319
A320
A321
B744
B777
B787 (not available) -> B777
A350 (not available) -> A321 or B777
A388 (not available) -> Generic A388

I have now started on large / heavy Terminal 2 and 4 
I have now managed to assign specific aircraft / airlines to specific terminals and stands 
This works due to the low demand for each type, which does not work for Terminal 5 / British Airways due to the high duplication 
As an example United Airlines and Air Canada use generally specific Gates at Terminal 2, and that I now have in place 

My first test was extremely successful....
Until UAL929 and AC869 appeared
I gave instructions for both to 27L, as normal
I then gave instructions for both to 27L via N2E
UAL929 was compliant, continued on Taxiway A, then to N2E, then LUAP for 27L 
However AC869 then did something I have NEVER seen before
It did a U-turn on Taxiway A, then went the WRONG way (the Airport file states Taxiway A is one direction clockwise) 
I then give it a further (simple) instruction to 27L, but continued the WRONG way, and then met another aircraft coming in the CORRECT direction!
Any ideas (why this would have occured)?

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Added Flybe flights, which are unusual for EGLL as they do not use the Terminal and the only (scheduled) TurboProp flights

My schedule file shows :
beginning and end of the day there is one aircraft 
four stands required 
minimum turnaround 40 minutes

However, Tower2011 starts the day with two
As a result through the whole day there is always one aircraft present, at some points there should be none 

I suspect there is a minimum stand turnaround time being applied by Tower2011? (possibly 50 minutes)

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1 hour ago, mjkerr said:

I suspect there is a minimum stand turnaround time being applied by Tower2011? (possibly 90 minutes)

In my experience, there is no minimum turnaround time at all. Would have to see you log and/or schedule to tell what is truly going on.

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Noted several aircraft that use Terminal 4 and have 50 minutes turnaround
Created a test schedule, and anything less than 50 minutes appears to result in a second aircraft being required / generated (if there is sufficient spare stands) or the aircraft being dropped 
 

game-FlyBe.log -> Just the BE flight details, removed all the generic content (build data)

Terminal 2A-FlyBe.xls -> Tower2011 assignments created, which results in two aircraft at 06:00 and end of day

Terminal 2A-not in use.xls -> FlyBe actual assignments, which only requires one aircraft at 06:00 and end of day

schedule.txt -> file created from the FlyBe schedule

game-FlyBe.log

Terminal 2A-FlyBe.xls

Terminal 2A-not in use.xls 

schedule.txt

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I can't open your spreadsheets and really need the entire log and schedule file. The terminal file wouldn't hurt either. Also, need to know what time you are starting your session. Keep in mind, the game time you select for T!2011 is UTC while the schedule time is the local time.  Thankfully this confusion was eliminated in T!3D.  

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9 hours ago, crbascott said:

I can't open your spreadsheets and really need the entire log and schedule file. The terminal file wouldn't hurt either. Also, need to know what time you are starting your session. Keep in mind, the game time you select for T!2011 is UTC while the schedule time is the local time.  Thankfully this confusion was eliminated in T!3D.  

For EGLL the UTC and schedule time should be the same, UK, and not noticed I have had to adjust times on any flights 

Game started at 06:00, Runway 27L only

game.log -> file

Only the FlyBe / BEE flights are required, I have removed everything else so that I can work out why the simulation creates the second aircraft 
schedule.txt -> No change, see above

London_Heathrow_Airport_terminal.txt -> You may prefer to use
Terminal_2l: BEE (as this will put these two aircraft into the two stands on Terminal 2B)
The original terminal file could also be used instead as it should not make any difference 

Terminal 2A-FlyBe.jpg -> Tower2011 assignments created, which results in two aircraft at 06:00 and end of day

Terminal 2A-not in use.jpg -> FlyBe actual assignments, which only requires one aircraft at 06:00 and end of day

London_Heathrow_Airport_terminal.txt

Terminal 2A-not in use.jpg

Terminal 2A-FlyBe.jpg

game.log

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Interesting, tried other start times and there is still one additional aircraft 
06:00 (two)
08:00 (one)
10:00 (one)
12:00 (two)
14:00 (three)

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I have also now fully populated Terminal 2 (Terminal 2A and 2B), and found another that causes an issue
EI700 creates a second aircraft that is not required, confirming a minimum turnaround time of 50 minutes 
In this case the solution is to use a Terminal stand that does not actually exist!
Ironically, it is only used once to release this flight

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I've seen planes turn around as soon as they are parked - so I do not believe there is a 50 minute minimum turnaround. However, you have modified things your so it's hard to tell exactly what is going on - especially without full logs and the inability to replicate your setup.

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Yes, I appreiciate I have now fully modified the original files, it is more realistic
However, it is easy enough to create a hybrid that combines the schedule (as at last week) with the airport terminal files
The only common issue would be FlyBe, I would have no option to create terminals that do not exist, so that issue still exists!
ie Create a EGLL airport, that only serves Flybe, and see what happens!?!

As for EI711, I will try to work out today why this does not work correctly, but initially this also suffers the same problem with a turnaround time of just 45 minutes, whilst all the other (EIN) are 50 minutes or greater

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29 minutes ago, mjkerr said:

I would have no option to create terminals that do not exist,

That's not really true - theoretically with the airport editor you can do whatever you want. There's a Dick Parker thread you can be used as a template with steps to create a cargo terminal at LAX (for whatever FT never gives us appropriate cargo space at LAX). 

Good luck figuring things out - you're pretty much on your own since the focus now is on T!3D and the next version. But, I'm sure you've figured that out by now. 

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11 hours ago, crbascott said:

theoretically with the airport editor you can do whatever you want. There's a Dick Parker thread you can be used as a template with steps to create a cargo terminal at LAX (for whatever FT never gives us appropriate cargo space at LAX)

I need this for Terminal 5, four stands are present but not linked
I have tried to create the links but cannot figure out how to do this
A link to this member / thread would be appreciated

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11 hours ago, crbascott said:

That's not really true

Apologies, but you may have misunderstood this
Passengers depart from Terminal 2A Gate 01, and are then taken by bus
As a result it is not possible to create this gate and link, as it does not exist 
I have also now discovered there is a temporarily a similar one in Terminal 3, whilst two stands are being modified

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12 hours ago, mjkerr said:

As for EI711, I will try to work out today why this does not work correctly, but initially this also suffers the same problem with a turnaround time of just 45 minutes, whilst all the other (EIN) are 50 minutes or greater

Aer Lingus / EIN use four stands, for some reason the game requires five stands 
EI711 has a turnaround time of 45 minutes, the same as the issue that affects FlyBe 
When I amended EI711 to a departure time of 09:35 instead of 09:30, the issue then moves to EI155 which is the next departure 
Amending EI155 to a departure time of 09:55 instead of 09:50 move the issue to the next departure EI381 
Amending EI381 to a departure time of 09:55 instead of 09:50 moves the issue to a later departure, as the next two departures have a turnaround time of 50 minutes 

So back to my original request, where is the minimum turnaround time applied in the game?
Is it hard written into the program?

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On 10/19/2019 at 11:27 AM, mjkerr said:

I need this for Terminal 5, four stands are present but not linked
I have tried to create the links but cannot figure out how to do this

I have now successfully added the four missing stands for Terminal 5 
T524 to T527
On my first attempt the line was not long enough and the aircraft were not sitting entirely within the stand! 
I do not know why they were not included, although T527 is quite small and is really only suitable for A319 and A320 

I now have to add the missing taxiway...
However having added the missing stands I now understand the process required

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Looks like the fresh full installation I have performed has corrected an issue

As discussed, by default with Runway 27R for arrivals

Departures from Runway 27L : 

Any aircraft that was sent to Runway 27L, by default uses N1
I had previously tried Runway 27L at N2E, N2W, N3 and N4
However once given Line Up And Wait, would simply spin around and go to the end of the runway (as if they had been given Runway 27L without the At instruction)
This no longer happens, as a result I now have the ability to line up four aircraft on Runway 27L

It was even worse for departures from Terminals 4 and 6, when using Runway 27L at S3 and S4E
These aircraft would not even line up, and crossed the runway!
This too has resolved itself

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