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Tower 2011 - EGLL (Heathrow) - advice


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10 hours ago, Braf123456 said:

im looking for a good lhr schedule for 2011 can u send me a copy of it

I have heavily modified EGLL for Tower 2011, but it is still not quite perfect
It will not work with the standard configuration of EGLL for Tower 2011
As a result you would have to rename the original files, create new folders and then insert the files that I use

This may affect other airports for Tower 2011, if you have any

My current schedule is from Summer 2019
However, I have had to remove the FlyBe aircraft due runway conflicts and spare aircraft that I have not been able to resolve
Some aircraft are also white, as they have been added since 2014 (such as the BA A380)

If you are prepared to accept these risks, then I can put together some instructions and ZIP file

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I am nearly ready to release my "heavily modified" EGLL Tower 2011 version, updated to real world Schedule from Summer 2019 It has taken me some time, not helped by the many Windows 10 updates that

I think I have had my first Go Around Delta B764 arrival on runway 27R Cleared to Land, as required However, when it visually appeared it was higher than normal It passed over the runway and

Two steps forward, one step back I am exhaustively testing each change I make before release As you can see above the latest issue was trying to get aircraft from Terminal 4 to use the correct int

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1 hour ago, MJKERR said:

I have heavily modified EGLL for Tower 2011, but it is still not quite perfect
It will not work with the standard configuration of EGLL for Tower 2011
As a result you would have to rename the original files, create new folders and then insert the files that I use

This may affect other airports for Tower 2011, if you have any

My current schedule is from Summer 2019
However, I have had to remove the FlyBe aircraft due runway conflicts and spare aircraft that I have not been able to resolve
Some aircraft are also white, as they have been added since 2014 (such as the BA A380)

If you are prepared to accept these risks, then I can put together some instructions and ZIP file

That's fine I didn't buy the real color for any of my airports 

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11 hours ago, Braf123456 said:

That's fine I didn't buy the real color for any of my airports 

All your aircraft will be white
However, you will still need to rename the original files and folders, in case you want to roll back to your original version

I also plan to backdate the schedule to take advantage of some of the older liveries that are in the original (current) Tower 2011 aircraft colours (Real Color)

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5 hours ago, MJKERR said:

All your aircraft will be white
However, you will still need to rename the original files and folders, in case you want to roll back to your original version

I also plan to backdate the schedule to take advantage of some of the older liveries that are in the original (current) Tower 2011 aircraft colours (Real Color)

18 hours ago, MJKERR said:

 

Ok cool

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/13/2019 at 7:12 PM, MJKERR said:

Aircraft for Terminal 4 should leave to the left 
I tried 
Cleared to Land 27L
Proceed to Ramp (which as I have now found out prevents aircraft crossing an active runway!) via S (which they ignore)
Proceed to Taxiway S (once Runway 27L is clear to cross) 
Sadly they still leave to the right, go round in a circle on Taxiway A, then wait to cross Runway 27L
How do I do this? 

Runway 27L operations

I am back to trying to resolve this again
I cannot find a voice command that works
My sheet shows
CALLSIGN - Exit at taxiway XXX
However this does not work
Equally, nothing in the manual for this

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On 9/15/2020 at 2:19 PM, MJKERR said:

It was even worse for departures from Terminals 4 and 6, when using Runway 27L at S3 and S4E
These aircraft would not even line up, and crossed the runway!
This too has resolved itself

This seems a little odd
If I start the day at 07:00 intersections S3 and S4W (although in-game this is incorrectly S4) work correctly for departures
If I start the day at 15:00 these do not work and all aircraft respond negative

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8 hours ago, MJKERR said:

This seems a little odd
If I start the day at 07:00 intersections S3 and S4W (although in-game this is incorrectly S4) work correctly for departures
If I start the day at 15:00 these do not work and all aircraft respond negative

It looks like I had not actually used S3
Using the Airport Editor I found S3 was not actually connected to the runway, and was only connected to N3, so I have now corrected this

Now that I have found this error in the runway configuration between Taxiway S and Runway 09L / 27R I will correct the others as well

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On 9/15/2020 at 3:38 PM, Braf123456 said:

im looking for a good lhr schedule for 2011 can u send me a copy of it

Two steps forward, one step back
I am exhaustively testing each change I make before release
As you can see above the latest issue was trying to get aircraft from Terminal 4 to use the correct intersections for Runway 09R / 27L
It was rather unrealistic that they would only use S1
I could not get any aircraft to use S3, but I have corrected this

I also experienced an issue when starting the game at 15:00, with Avianca 120
On arrival the stand was blocked, so it could not Taxi to terminal
Oddly there is what looks like an Air Canada aircraft on this stand, I am having difficulty visually identifying it, but my spreadsheet shows this should not happen 
I have temporarily resolved this by assigning the Avianca to a remote bus gate stand (which I do with others that also cause gate blocking)

I have also started updating the schedule with some defunct airlines, as the real colours for these are available 
China Airlines A340 (Terminal 2)
Czech Airlines A319 (Terminal 4)
Still to be added
DAT / Danish (unknown Terminal)
Kingfisher A330 (Terminal 4)
Transaero B737 (Terminal 4)

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Starting the game after 10:00 and noticed I kept getting aircraft at Terminal 6 (Cargo)
I understood this after 13:00, as there is one arrival

This is the first day I have been able to investigate this
Turns out I had Kuwait Airlines as KAC included for Terminal 6, instead of Korean Air Cargo!

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I am nearly ready to release my "heavily modified" EGLL Tower 2011 version, updated to real world Schedule from Summer 2019
It has taken me some time, not helped by the many Windows 10 updates that prevented use since I first purchased this in 2019! 
Just by luck I am on "sick leave" from work this week, so have been able to spend some time over the last few days conducting further testing before release

An on-line manual will be included, as there are in-game limitations

Equally, I hope this will help with the development of the Tower XX / 3D version

Revisions :
One -
Latest airlines as at Summer 2019, sadly Fly Be Turbo Props had to be removed as they caused crashes on the active runways!
Two -
Correction to Intersection S3 with Runway 27L for departures, no longer any need to send departures to S1 / SB1
Three -
Sadly some fictitious Terminal 2 stands (correct when the game was published in 2012) have had to be added, but they are in the graphics, and once you are used to them they are easy enough
Four - 
A limitation in-game is aircraft that once arrived have then moved off-stand, then returned later
I have resolved this by using remote stands, and this applies to as few aircraft as possible, on Terminal 2 and 5
Five -
On the plus-side, full compliance with A380 aircraft
An airport chart will be included, if you also want to send aircraft on the restricted taxiways (known as A380 Ground Movement)
Six A -
Addition of four missing remote stands for Terminal 5A
Six B -
Addition of missing Taxiway Y for use by the above remote stands from Terminal 5A (in tests this works correctly but looks strange)

Manual Instructions 
Version ONE - 
Runway 27R arrivals / 27L departures 05:00, 06:00, or 07:00
These all now work perfectly

Version TWO -
Runway 27R arrivals / 27L departures 15:00
This is still be checked and refined

Versions THREE -
Runway 09L arrivals / 09R departures 05:00, 06:00, or 07:00
These all now work perfectly

Version FOUR -
Runway 09L arrivals / 09R departures 15:00
Testing will commence shortly

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I have noted that A380 are departing Runway 09L at the wrong intersection A8

I have updated the landing length in the a388.apx file several times but it makes no difference
The default is 6230 feet
I have been increasing in 250 feet increments, up to 11000 feet

Any ideas?

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18 hours ago, MJKERR said:

I have noted that A380 are departing Runway 09L at the wrong intersection A8

To avoid confusion, you should have used "exiting runway 09L".

18 hours ago, MJKERR said:

have updated the landing length in the a388.apx file several times but it makes no difference
The default is 6270 feet
I have been increasing in 250 feet increments, up to 11000 feet

What are the entries for the A380 and A388 in your airplanes.txt file? Mine are as follows:
380 -380-AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A380                    -WIDE BODY JET                                           
388 -388-AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A380-800                -WIDE BODY JET      

As a result, for me the apx files of consequence are 380.apx and 388.apx.  In both cases I have a landing distance of  6595 feet.   

Is it possible you are not editing the correct files?                       

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2 hours ago, crbascott said:

What are the entries for the A380 and A388 in your airplanes.txt file? Mine are as follows:
380 -380-AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A380                    -WIDE BODY JET                                           
388 -388-AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A380-800                -WIDE BODY JET      

As a result, for me the apx files of consequence are 380.apx and 388.apx.  In both cases I have a landing distance of  6595 feet

I do not use the 380 in the schedule file, all are 388

C:\Program Files (x86)\FeelThere\Tower! 2011\Databases\airplanes.txt
380 -380-AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A380                    -WIDE BODY JET                                           
388 -388-AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A380-800                -WIDE BODY JET 

C:\Program Files (x86)\FeelThere\Tower! 2011\Airplanes\388.apx

I do have a separate folder for backups as I make amendments, but they would not work in-game as the filenames would cause errors
These are then renamed and copied to the Program Files folder
E:\Users\User\Documents\EGLL\Tower! 2011\Database\airplanes-2020-10-18.txt

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@MJKERR Your post above mentioned you updated a388.apx which is why I questioned if you were updating the correct file. Based on the airplanes.txt file the correct file name is 388.apx. You indicate you only have the 388 in your schedule. If that's the case, why show a screenshot of the 380?

PS - I don't have Heathrow so I can't test out your specific issue. However, I have to think you are not updating something correctly. Updating the landing length should definitely have an impact. In the past I did this for several planes to improve realism and accuracy and it worked 100% of the time.

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2 hours ago, crbascott said:

@MJKERR Your post above mentioned you updated a388.apx which is why I questioned if you were updating the correct file. Based on the airplanes.txt file the correct file name is 388.apx. You indicate you only have the 388 in your schedule. If that's the case, why show a screenshot of the 380?

380.apx
388.apx
They have the same configuration

I have created the A350 and B787 using copies of the B757 and B767
The technique works correctly, although in these two cases I have changed most of the variables
However, for some reason it does not work for A388
I am wondering if the landing speed is the issue?
 

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2 hours ago, crbascott said:

I don't have Heathrow so I can't test out your specific issue

I only have Heathrow, but it should work in any of three default Tower 2011 airports

I have tested in Los Angeles
Again, there is no difference but it is the same file in use between airports

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4 hours ago, MJKERR said:

I only have Heathrow, but it should work in any of three default Tower 2011 airports

I have tested in Los Angeles
Again, there is no difference but it is the same file in use between airports

I dusted off the cobwebs of my T!2011 and ran a few tests at KDFW (runway 18R) changing the landing distance of the 388. Here are my results:

Test 1 - Landing distance = 6595 > QFA7 exited at E4
Test 2 - Landing distance = 4595 > QFA7 exited at E3
Test 3 - Landing distance = 8595 > QFA7 exited at E7.

In my tests, changing the landing distance definitely had an impact where the plane exited. In all three tests, I only changed the landing distance in the plane editor. I've attached a screenshot of my 388 profile. It is very similar to yours. My Tracon and Cruise parameters are all blank (except for a cruising speed of 89). 

388.JPG.ac6e07b0e5c85444b93fa254c1a2b732.JPG

Again, I would make sure you are editing the correct file and saving it in the correct location. If your 388.apx file is still dated 2011, then you are obviously doing something wrong.

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4 hours ago, crbascott said:

Again, I would make sure you are editing the correct file and saving it in the correct location. If your 388.apx file is still dated 2011, then you are obviously doing something wrong.

All the original (installation) files have date between 2010 and 2012
Most of the textures have a date in 2016
Any APX files I update have a date in 2020

201020-01.jpg

201020-02.jpg

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@MJKERR

I ran another test - this time at LAX (runway 25L) and I used the "original" 388.apx file. The following are my results:

Test 1 - Landing distance = 6230 > QFA7 exited at N
Test 2 - Landing distance = 4230 > QFA7 exited at H6
Test 3 - Landing distance = 8230 > QFA7 exited at T. 

I don't know what to tell you. I have the same tower version as you (4.777.955) and editing the landing distance definitely has an impact. Your situation has the appearance that for some reason your 388.apx file is invalid/inaccessible/corrupt and the program is using Wide_default.apx instead. 

Unfortunately, the log file for T!2011 is not nearly as informational as T!3D so it probably won't provide much help. As a result, I think I've done all I can do from 4000+ miles away.

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One step forward, two steps back...

When testing any changes :
I run the program hourly from 06:00 to 18:00
As soon as it has loaded I pause
Open the game.log file and search for dropp (dropped)
If there are none, I can move forward to the next hour
If there are, then I need to work out why the flight or flights are affected

Yesterday, whilst checking the four stands at Terminal 4 for A380, I  noticed an additional aircraft at Terminal 4 (Kuwait Airways) that was not required
This was similar to the problem I discovered a long time ago with FlyBe on Terminal 2
With so many aircraft it is often difficult to visually spot an incorrect aircraft

I therefore decided to go back to basics, and edited the schedule file with just A380 aircraft
I then discovered two further issues!
The first was the program was creating an additional Emirates A380 at 14:00 and 15:00, again this aircraft is not required
The second was the program was not creating the later required Quantas A380, it should be on the stand for use several hours later

I had assumed the program was loading eight hours from the schedule
So if I start at 06:00 the schedule between 06:00 to 14:00 would be loaded
Equally, if I start at 15:00 the schedule between 15:00 and 23:00 would be loaded
These are preferred start times
After several tests it looks like only four hours is loaded
This would also explain why several aircraft I would expect to handle never appeared later in the day

As this was now effectively three issues, I decided to uninstall all four programs (Tower, EGLL add-on, real traffic and real colours)

The issue with PlaneEd has been resolved
I can now get the A380 exit runways correctly

However, the issue with only fours hours from the schedule loading still exists
This is really odd for such a small schedule file!

Starting at 06:00 -

Schedule file, edited for Terminal 3, stands 301, 303, 305 and 307 :
DXB,LHR,388,EK,7,07:05,07:05,0,EK
DXB,LHR,388,EK,1,12:25,12:25,0,EK
LHR,DXB,388,EK,8,09:05,09:05,0,EK
LHR,DXB,388,EK,2,14:20,14:20,0,EK
PER,LHR,388,QF,9,05:05,05:05,0,QF
LHR,PER,388,QF,10,12:10,12:10,0,QF
SIN,LHR,388,QF,1,06:35,06:35,0,QF

Resultant game log, edited :
Create airplane: UAE7 type: 388 code: 388 category: 3 class: WIDE BODY JET
Create airplane: UAE8 type: 388 code: 388 category: 3 class: WIDE BODY JET
QFA9 - STATE: Incoming
Create airplane: QFA9 type: 388 code: 388 category: 3 class: WIDE BODY JET
QFA1 - STATE: Incoming
Create airplane: QFA1 type: 388 code: 388 category: 3 class: WIDE BODY JET
TT: 05:05   QFA9  388
TT: 06:35   QFA1  388
TT: 07:05   UAE7  388
TT: 09:05   UAE8  388

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4 hours ago, MJKERR said:

I had assumed the program was loading eight hours from the schedule
So if I start at 06:00 the schedule between 06:00 to 14:00 would be loaded
Equally, if I start at 15:00 the schedule between 15:00 and 23:00 would be loaded
These are preferred start times
After several tests it looks like only four hours is loaded
This would also explain why several aircraft I would expect to handle never appeared later in the day

From the bottom of page 21 of the Tower!2011 manual:

Continuous Tower! 2011 controlling time is limited to four hours. This limitation is similar to real-
world mandatory break restrictions for air traffic controllers, and the game's scheduler logic
limitation for airport traffic. If you wish to control for longer than four hours just restart play by
pressing the START button on the Tower/Select Simulation page; you do not need to close the
program.

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