MJKERR Posted May 23, 2020 Report Share Posted May 23, 2020 It is nearing the time to replace my two business laptops Initially they would run Tower 2011 SE (Heathrow airport and all packages) However at the latest Windows 10 v1809 and v1903 updates for some reason they would not do so My budget is £300 per laptop However if I retain the two business laptops I can effectively purchase one laptop at £600 This laptop will solely be used for Tower 2011, and eventually Tower 3D when it is released (Heathrow airport packages) Here is what I am currently considering (model, processor, RAM, graphics, SSD, HDD) : Medion Erazer P6605 : i5-8300H, 8GB RAM, GTX 1050 4GB, 128GB SSD, 2TB HDD Medion Erazer P15601 : i5-9300H, 8GB RAM, GTX 1050 3GB, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD Medion Erazer P15603 : i5-9300H, 8GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 256GB SSD, 1TB HDD Alternatively I have also been considering a Desktop : Lenovo 720-18ASU : AMD Ryzen 5 1400, 8GB RAM, RX 550 2GB, NO SSD, 2TB HDD Lenovo P520C : Xeon W-2125, 16GB RAM, GTX 1050 4GB, NO SSD, 1TB HDD Lenovo P520C : Xeon W-2125, 16GB RAM, GTX 1650 6GB, NO SSD, 1TB HDD Any and all advice welcome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crbascott Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 My only advice is - the more RAM the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, crbascott said: My only advice is - the more RAM the better. Yes, I agree with that I started looking at 4GB, but the two laptops already have that (shared graphics) Equally, with 4GB most only come with 2GB Graphics Not sure if that would be enough Are there any graphics cards that do not really work with Tower, to avoid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobflight Posted May 24, 2020 Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 1 hour ago, mjkerr said: any graphics cards that do not really work For a gaming laptop you want a real video card not an integrated or one using shared memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted May 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 24, 2020 8 hours ago, scoobflight said: For a gaming laptop you want a real video card not an integrated or one using shared memory. I am not considering any device with shared graphics, they are all dedicated As above, the type is the fourth item, most are Gigabyte GTX I have had a few bad experiences with AMD as well, so avoiding those Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted May 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 26, 2020 On 5/23/2020 at 6:12 PM, mjkerr said: ItAlternatively I have also been considering a Desktop : Lenovo P520C : Xeon W-2125, 16GB RAM, GTX 1050 4GB, NO SSD, 1TB HDD Lenovo P520C : Xeon W-2125, 16GB RAM, GTX 1650 6GB, NO SSD, 1TB HDD Any and all advice welcome It would appear neither of these Graphics Cards will work on this Lenovo P520C, which does seem odd, and am limited to one of these (within budget) - Quadro K2000 2GB Quadro K4000 3GB NVS 510 2GB Quadro P400 2GB Quadro P600 2GB Quadro P620 2GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cwiara Posted May 27, 2020 Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 I wanted laptop to the games and to work, which can work for a longer time, thus I recommend you to invest slightly more so you can use it for a few years to come, my lap: I totally resigned from HDD, an choosed SSD instead, 480 gb - i7-8750H - 20 GB RAM - GTX 1070 maxq cerberus graphics 8gb ddr5 It's very fast, performance is fantastic I can play GTA V, FORZA HORIZON 3, 4, CRYSIS etc and TOWER3DPRO of course:) without any problems on the highest settings, many fps. But the cost was around 1000 gbp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted May 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 13 hours ago, Cwiara said: I recommend you to invest slightly more so you can use it for a few years to come, my lap: I totally resigned from HDD, an choosed SSD instead, 480 gb - i7-8750H - 20 GB RAM - GTX 1070 maxq cerberus graphics 8gb ddr5 the cost was around 1000 gbp Roughly every five years I upgrade Last time was desktop to laptop, but now it is time to go back to desktop Future proofing is everything, I aim for five years and both laptops are now four years old For my next desktop the HDD will be used solely for low demand programs and file storage SSD will be used for Windows 10 and Tower Tower is the only game program I have used in the last few years Budget is £600 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted May 27, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 27, 2020 Lenovo are adamant only those listed Graphics Cards will work The retailer has now replied that almost all 4GB Graphics Cards on their website will work, and either the GTX 1050 or 1650 will work However, they recommend that anything above 4GB will require the PSU (OE 500W) to be upgraded Ironically, a few hours later Lenovo have replied that today they updated their list of supported devices, but it made no difference to my selections After all the P520c is designed for 3D CAD work A local retailer has also returned a quote, based on specification (16GB RAM, 4GB Graphics Card and basic SSD) i5-9400, 8GB RAM, GTX 1650 4GB, 120GB SSD, 1TB HDD Note the trade-off here is reducing to 8GB but adding a 120GB SSD, also it is only a two year warranty against the Lenovo with a three year warranty They made this suggestion based on the i5-9400 as this has an internal GPU, so the RAM could be lowered slightly Is this correct, or was this simply to meet the budget? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliGrim Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 1 hour ago, mjkerr said: they recommend that anything above 4GB will require the PSU (OE 500W) to be upgraded That depends on the installed components and how much headroom you need for external devices such as USB hard drives, controllers, etc. It is nonsense to determine it at the graphics card alone. Also, GPUs with more RAM do not necessarily need more power. It is often the case, but it depends on the model you choose. 1 hour ago, mjkerr said: They made this suggestion based on the i5-9400 as this has an internal GPU, so the RAM could be lowered slightly I'm not sure I understand that statement. Were you told that with an internal GPU you can spare RAM? Since a CPU with integrated graphics unit does not have its own RAM, it uses parts of the system memory. Therefore it makes sense to install more RAM. Personally, I would give Intel integrated graphics a wide berth and when it comes to gaming, integrated graphics or APUs in general. What exactly should your system be able to do? Work: Which programs are used regularly? Gaming: Which games should be played now and in the future? What other requirements and wishes have to be fulfilled? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 3 hours ago, EliGrim said: I would give Intel integrated graphics a wide berth and when it comes to gaming, integrated graphics or APUs in general. What exactly should your system be able to do? Work: Which programs are used regularly? Gaming: Which games should be played now and in the future? What other requirements and wishes have to be fulfilled? My understanding is that Intel CPU with processor / integrated Graphics (not to be confused with shared on motherboard) work best with Graphics Cards These are specified on the Intel website See the first post to see the Intel CPU I was comparing i5-8300H i5-9300H Xeon W-2125 The system must be capable of meeting the requirements to run Tower3D (4GB RAM, but people on this forum are advising 8GB RAM, 4GB Graphics, minimum 3.0 GHz Intel) At other times to work on two spreadsheets each of which is about 2MB At other times video editing, videos are about about 250MB It will not do any of the above at the same time There used to be a few bottleneck calculators, but they have disappeared or do not take into account the latest CPU and Graphics Cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliGrim Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, mjkerr said: The system must be capable of meeting the requirements to run Tower3D (4GB RAM, but people on this forum are advising 8GB RAM, 4GB Graphics, minimum 3.0 GHz Intel) At other times to work on two spreadsheets each of which is about 2MB At other times video editing, videos are about about 250MB It will not do any of the above at the same time If that is really all the system has to do, you would get away without a dedicated graphics card. A budget build would be for example: - ATX Tower (£38.96) Amazon - A320 Motherboard (£53.37) Amazon - Ryzen 5 3400G APU (£137.99) Amazon - DDR4 3200MHz CL16 RAM (£68.02) Amazon - 450W 80+ Bronze PSU (£59.99) Amazon - 240 GB SSD (£34.79) Amazon - 1 TB HDD (£34.60) Amazon - Windows 10 Pro (£43.28) Amazon Total: £470,73 This is not a buy recommendation only a possible example that meets your written requirements. Especially if you want to play games and do video editing, you should not be afraid of AMD processors. For example, a Ryzen 5 3600 is an extremely solid processor. (In this case, however, you would need a dedicated GPU.) Things I would pay attention to: RAM: at least 16GB (due to video editing and gaming), at least 3000 or 2999 MHz (It depends especially on the CPU on what MHz RAM you can use and pay attention to use Dual Channel.) PSU: depending on configuration but at least 80+ Bronze certified CPU: read reviews if a boxed cooler is sufficient Dedicated GPU: prefer GTX and stay away from RX, NVIDIA CUDA-enabled GPUs come in handy for video editing (reasonable RTX cards are out of budget and I would exclude Quadro cards because of gaming) I would like to stress once again that I do not give any buying advice. This post should be taken as food for thought. I have no experience with laptops and their special components and will not comment on them. EDIT: In my experience Tower!3D (Pro) does not need a 4GB graphics card. I have a 6GB GPU, use Windows 10 Pro with two monitors and use exactly 2GB VRAM when I play Tower!3D PRO. In the example build, the Ryzen 5 3400G APU would use 2 GB of system RAM for the graphics unit. Edited May 28, 2020 by EliGrim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 8 hours ago, EliGrim said: - Ryzen 5 3400G APU (£137.99) As previous, I am not considering AMD, only Intel CPU on motherboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliGrim Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 46 minutes ago, mjkerr said: As previous, I am not considering AMD, only Intel CPU on motherboard If I had found an Intel CPU with integrated graphics in that price segment that would even come close to the performance of the Vega 11 graphics, I would have used it for the budget build example. But as I said: It is not a buy recommendation! It's an idea, a suggestion you can play around with and make comparisons. You asked for suggestions and I gave you a budget build as a starting point for further considerations. Whether you consider something from it or ignore it is entirely up to you. In the end you need to choose or put together the system that suits you best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted June 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 5/28/2020 at 9:25 AM, EliGrim said: EDIT: In my experience Tower!3D (Pro) does not need a 4GB graphics card. I have a 6GB GPU, use Windows 10 Pro with two monitors and use exactly 2GB VRAM when I play Tower!3D PRO. In the example build, the Ryzen 5 3400G APU would use 2 GB of system RAM for the graphics unit. Now I am a little confused The specification for Tower 3D, states minimum 2GB Dedicated Video Card I therefore doubled this to ensure some future proofing 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliGrim Posted June 2, 2020 Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, mjkerr said: I therefore doubled this to ensure some future proofing The example system serves only to illustrate what is possible to meet your requirements on a budget. I am sure that the Vega 11 graphics of the APU is strong enough to handle Tower!3D Pro. When I tested the processor I was able to play Planet Coaster with medium graphics settings in 1080p and this game demands a lot from both CPU and GPU. The performance was not breathtaking but absolutely acceptable. I am not aware that Intel has anything comparable in this price segment. But to make it quite clear, this has nothing to do with future proofing. Especially when it comes to gaming, I wouldn't call almost any 2 to 4 GB graphics card future-proof. When it comes to future proofing on a budget, I would look for an i7 that has good scores in both multi- and single-threading and wouldn't buy anything below a GTX 1660Ti. But to seriously talk about future-proofing in the gaming sector, you need a solid RTX card in my opinion, which alone is above the set budget. I'm not saying that I recommend the 3400G processor. I chose it for the budget build because of the price-performance ratio. It's definitely recommendable to use a dedicated graphics card, both for gaming and video editing. EDIT: A 2GB dedicated graphics card is recommended for Tower!3D Pro. The minimum is a 1GB dedicated graphics card according to Steam and website. I couldn't find the non-pro version on feelthere.com and Steam says the minimum is 256MB graphics. However, I consider the latter to be nonsense. Edited June 2, 2020 by EliGrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted June 2, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 2, 2020 6 hours ago, EliGrim said: EDIT: A 2GB dedicated graphics card is recommended for Tower!3D Pro. The minimum is a 1GB dedicated graphics card according to Steam and website. I couldn't find the non-pro version on feelthere.com and Steam says the minimum is 256MB graphics. However, I consider the latter to be nonsense. Specification is the same for Tower 3D and Tower 3D Prohttps://www.feelthere.com/shop/air-traffic-control/tower3d/tower3d/#tab-system-requirements The only difference is Windows version support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted June 23, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 As work is light I found one Lenovo M92P that is no longer being used, purchased it from the company for £1 It is not high spec, but as it will only be used for Tower 2011 SE and Tower 3D Pro, it is worth a punt in the short term I advised I could clear the data from the Hard Drive, but our IT department was adamant it had to be done by themselves, so should be completed by the middle of next week Processor : i5 3470 - 3.20 GHz GPU : None RAM : 4GB HDD : 500 GB Plan is to add GPU : GT 1050 2GT 2GB or GTX 1050 TI 4GB (both should return 62.9 FPS) RAM (installed options) : 4GB, 8GB, 12GB, 16GB, 20GB, 24GB, 28GB, or 32GB SSD : yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJKERR Posted September 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2020 On 6/23/2020 at 9:08 PM, MJKERR said: Processor : i5 3470 - 3.20 GHz GPU : None RAM : 4GB HDD : 500 GB Plan is to add GPU : GT 1050 2GT 2GB or GTX 1050 TI 4GB (both should return 62.9 FPS) RAM (installed options) : 4GB, 8GB, 12GB, 16GB, 20GB, 24GB, 28GB, or 32GB SSD : yes Installed the following : 24GB RAM 240GB SSD, and moved Windows 10 and all programs to this drive Gigabyte GTX 750 TI OC 2GB Doing so has resolved the issue with Tower 2011, and is running again without any issues Tower 3D is also vastly improved, compared to the 1GB on-board Intel HD graphics The main monitor returns 30fps to 45fps and the second monitor (ADIRS and Strip) varies between 5fps and 35fps (it seems to be low when there is little or no changes required) However in the ADIRS the vertical lines for aircraft flicker / alternate between white and yellow, as the aircraft move between positions Any assistance to solve this minor issue appreciated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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