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Bug at KLAX with Taxi


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See screenshot attached that would explain. As over 20KB has to add IMG to my website. The taxiway it is supposed to go was correct to my instructions. But you will see how the plane is when it gets to taxiway Romeo. 

klaxbug.jpg

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What was your taxi instruction? Specifically, did you include E in your taxi instructions?

If you didn't then this kind of routing is pretty normal for the game.

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Unless this is a regular occurrence, you are probably best advised to take it as a funny glitch that the pilot got a little lost. This is said to have happened in real life as well. The developer has stopped fixing the base game years ago and will most likely not bother with this bug.

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41 minutes ago, hexzed said:

this kind of routing is pretty normal for the game.

I thought the confused SWA pilot is the problem here, obviously not using a taxiway.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, hexzed said:

What was your taxi instruction? Specifically, did you include E in your taxi instructions?

If you didn't then this kind of routing is pretty normal for the game.

Yes I gave full taxiway instructions right to taxiway D - which is the final taxiway to the terminal. Echo Seria Delta was given after Romeo.

Edited by IamKangy
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@IamKangy:  I see by your screen shot that you are using Runways 24L and 25R for your LAX arrivals; however, in real life LAX uses 24R and 25L for arrivals and 24L and 25R for departures.  I control LAX more than any of my other airports and have developed taxiway routings that work the best for me and avoids most of the game’s taxi related bugs (except spinning aircraft).   I’ve attached a very detailed Word document that describes and explains the taxi routes I use.

 Also, if you listened to LAX ATC (pre-Covid) you would hear ground controllers taxiing flights originating in the south terminal complex to Runway (RWY) 24L for take-off and flights from the north terminal complex being taxied to RWY 25R instead of just directing them to the nearest departure runway.  I believe this has something to do with their destinations and departure routings.  Therefore, for more of a realistic effect, I’ve developed a list of destination airports where I feel north terminal area departures should depart from RWY 25R and south terminal area departures should depart from 24L.  An explanation as to how this list of airports was created and to use it is also included in the above attached Word document which is too long to be included in the body of this post.  My list of the specific departure runway destination airports is also attached on two Excel spreadsheets.  I’ve also attached a PDF of an old LAX airport diagram that reflects FeelThere’s current out dated KLAX DLC.  One point to remember is that my taxi routings are based on the current LAX DLC’s very outdated LAX taxiway configuration and nomenclature.  Unfortunately FeelThere hasn’t updated the LAX DLC (one of the game’s initial base airports) even though LAX has had some very significant configuration and taxiway nomenclature changes since then.   I hope these attachments might help you or anyone else that might want to try my taxi routings and/or specific destination departure runways when controlling LAX.  It can be real challenging at times taking some of the south terminal area departures to RWY 24L and north terminal area departures to RWY 25R instead of just taxiing all the departures to their nearest departure runway.

LAX Taxi Procedures.docx KLAXPreferred Rwy Departure List.xlsx KLAX Preferred Dept Rwys Master List.xlsx Old KLAX Airport Diagram.pdf

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Ron C, That's how I like to play it also, I have attached my list which I use. As you can see I just gave them indicate which direction they will go on departure (game wise that is). I keep the spreadsheet in simple two column form alongside the main window of the game for quick reference (also includes other RJTT & EGGL on the other tabs).

My taxiways which I don't have documented are identical to yours at KLAX, although I've never tried pushback facing a particular direction, didn't know that was available. I have used the work around by giving it a different runway than intended just to get it to face the way required.

T3D Directions.xlsx

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If you want to operate KLAX realistically right now, runway 7R/25L is closed temporarily (along with two taxiways on the south side) for runway renovations.

https://simpleflying.com/lax-runway-overhaul/ 

Below is the closure info from the current D-ATIS :

RWY 2 5 LEFT 7 RIGHT CLSD. TWY H CLSD BTN TWY, G AND TWY J TWY G CLSD BTN TWY H AND TWY A TWY A8 CLSD BTN RWY 25L AND TWY A TWY H8 CLSD BTN RWY 25L AND TWY H, TAXIWAY HOTEL 5 CLOSED.

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@Salad: Thank you for sharing your list.  My spreadsheet is more expanded because I have two monitors and can display it on my second monitor (I can’t use my second monitor for the game since T!3DP doesn’t want to work very well on it😭).  However though, one could also print my spreadsheet and use it that way. 

That push back technique usually works pretty well for getting the airplane pointing in the direction you want it to go when it starts its taxi.   In your pushback instructions just give the departure the first taxiway (using "via") you want it to turn on after using the taxiway it is initially being pushed back onto or starting its taxi from.  I use it mostly at LAX and DFW since both airports’ commercial terminal areas are located between two sets of parallel runways.  I also have a list of specific destination airports that I use for DFW departures.  That list is divided by east and west destinations (DFW has primarily north/south runways).  I also use across the terminal area taxi routings at DFW (similar to LAX) to get the departures to the appropriate runway for their destinations.

@crbascott:  Thanks for the info; I haven’t listened to LAX ATC for quite some time.  I might just give the three runway configuration a try after I listen to LAX ATC for a short while. 

@DeltaVII:  Roger that.  I was already planning on doing that; but, I’m just not sure yet by what amount to reduce the traffic volume to.

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11 minutes ago, Ron C said:

I also use across the terminal area taxi routings at DFW (similar to LAX) to get the departures to the appropriate runway for their destinations.

Could you clarify what you mean by this (i.e., example)?

  • Confused 1
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I guess he means taxiing eastern departures from the cargo area and terminals B and D to 17R/35L and 13L as well as western departures from the GA area and terminals A, C and E to 18L/36R and 31L via taxiways A, B, Y and Z.

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3 hours ago, crbascott said:

Could you clarify what you mean by this (i.e., example)?

 

48 minutes ago, DeltaVII said:

I guess he means taxiing eastern departures from the cargo area and terminals B and D to 17R/35L and 13L as well as western departures from the GA area and terminals A, C and E to 18L/36R and 31L via taxiways A, B, Y and Z.

Basically what @DeltaVII  said.  I was just about ready to push the submit button for my response to @crbascott when his post came in.  Anyway, for more clarification, here is what I was going to reply

I divided the DFW departure destination airports into “east” or “west” destinations.  The dividing line is a longitudinal line running north/south through the middle of DFW.  All departures going to destinations west of the line (including all Pacific and Asian destinations) use DFW’s west side runways and all departures going to destinations east of the line (including all European and Middle East destinations) use DFW’s east side runways.   For both arrivals and departures I generally use TWYs Y and B for west bound taxiing aircraft and Z and A for east bound taxiing aircraft.  For a reference I’ve also attached an enlarged portion of DFW’s airport diagram to help better depict the terminal area, runways and taxiways I use for my examples (however, you'll need to rotate the diagram 90 degrees to the right in order to obtain the correct north/south orientation).

Examples:  DFW is in a south flow (departures on RWYs 18L, 17R and 13L; arrivals on 18R, 17C, and 17L).  (1) AAL256 calls for pushback going to KLAX (a destination located west of DFW).  AAL256’s gate is located in Terminal “C” (located on the east side of the terminal area).  My taxi routing to RWY 18L (the runway I use for departures going to destinations west of DFW) would be via K, Y, H, WF.  (2) ENY296 calls for pushback going to KORD (a destination located east of DFW).  ENY296’s gate is located in the mid-portion of Terminal “B” (located on the west side of the terminal area).  My taxi routing for RWY 17R (the runway I use for departures going to destinations east of DFW) would be via WJ/G5, G, Z, K, EF.

Added after receiving @DeltaVII post.  During a session I usually don't have time to look up where a GA departure's destination airport is located as they are usually smaller airports with IDs I don't recognize.  Therefore, I usually just taxi them to RWY 17R at EH via L.  However, if I know their destination airport is west of DFW then I'll taxi the GA departure to RWY 18L at WH via Y, G.  Cargo departures use the same departure runway selection criteria as commercial (all the cargo ramps, except FEDEX are located on the west side of the airport west of RWY 18R/36L).

KDFW Expanded Airport Diagram.pdf

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@Ron CThanks, it was the phrase "across the terminal area taxi routings" that I was unclear on. KDFW is my home airport so I am very familiar with the operations there. Obviously, if one wants to operate realistically then there will definitely be the need for east-west and vice versa taxi routings.  

Regarding the bridges, in real life eastbound traffic uses Y and A while westbound traffic uses Z and B. I originally learned of this flow several years ago when listening to LiveATC in order to build a ground routes reference document for the Tower!2011 version of KDFW. Later, I confirmed this flow with the Low Visibility Taxi Route Charts from Jeppesen and VATSIM SOPs. 

Also since you and @DeltaVII both mentioned it, runway 13L is basically "never" used. It can only be used in extremely severe crosswind conditions when the 17s/18s are all closed. During typical south flow a departure from 13L would feed straight into the flight path for KDAL (Love Field) which is only a few miles away. Additionally, arrivals to 13L would cross the flight path of all the 17s/18s so, again, making it pretty much unusable. However, it is not uncommon to see 31R used in north flow but for arrivals only.

Also, on the subject of runway closures: 18R/36L is closed at the moment for a rehab project. It has been reported that it could open this month for day use while still being closed at night through May 2021.     

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During typical south flow a departure from 13L would feed straight into the flight path for KDAL (Love Field) which is only a few miles away.

Which is why KEENE2.DFW and KING8.TTT demand an immediate right turn heading 240° and TGATE3.DFW initially turns right towards ELLVR before joining a 130° heading. For a tower controller this is a challenging task to stack the departures without conflict, but it seems possible.

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9 hours ago, DeltaVII said:

Which is why KEENE2.DFW and KING8.TTT demand an immediate right turn heading 240° and TGATE3.DFW initially turns right towards ELLVR before joining a 130° heading. For a tower controller this is a challenging task to stack the departures without conflict, but it seems possible.

Sure, there are procedures for it. But as I said, if the 17s and 18s are open (challenging or not) then 13L is not used.

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@crbascott Craig, I didn’t know that DFW was your home airport or I wouldn’t have gone into such detail about the airport or sent the airport diagram.  However, maybe they will help someone else understand what I was trying to explain.  Thank you for pointing out the correct direction of travel for the bridge taxiways.  I’ll change my taxi routings accordingly.  Also, I usually use G and K as my main taxiways for taxiing both my north and south flow arrivals and departures to and from the terminal area and F and L for any opposite direction taxiing aircraft.  Am I close to RL or am I reversed again?  I like to get as close to the actual airport operating procedures as possible.  I also understand about 13L and 31R.  I have never used 13L for arrivals because of the crossing flight paths.  I was only using 13L for FEDEX departures, but now that you pointed out KDAL, I’ll take them to the appropriate departure runway for their destination airport.   

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3 hours ago, Ron C said:

Also, I usually use G and K as my main taxiways for taxiing both my north and south flow arrivals and departures to and from the terminal area and F and L for any opposite direction taxiing aircraft.  Am I close to RL or am I reversed again?

I think you're definitely close enough. There are exceptions, but the predominant use is as follows. In south flow, G and K are used for northbound traffic and in north flow they are used for southbound traffic. Regardless of flow, F and L are northbound north of WL/EL and southbound from WL/EL to the bridges. 

4 hours ago, Ron C said:

I was only using 13L for FEDEX departures, but now that you pointed out KDAL, I’ll take them to the appropriate departure runway for their destination airport.   

Yep, just looking at it you'd think FDX would get plenty of use out of this runway. But even during off hours when KDAL has little to no traffic, the runway isn't used due to voluntary noise abatement procedures. 

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@crbascott  Thank you for your response and information.  I have some more questions and information I'd like to know about DFW operations and I don't want to continually tie up (hijack?) this thread (and also run the risk of incurring the wrath of the moderators) to get the information.  Therefore, I was wondering if I could occasionally "tap your brain" using PMs? 

Ron 

 

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32 minutes ago, Ron C said:

Therefore, I was wondering if I could occasionally "tap your brain" using PMs?

Why not just open a new thread if it may be of interest to others?

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