EGLL - Unusually short turnaround

[MJKERR]

I have noticed this a few times and have confirmed the flights this has occured with

VS24 B789 LAX - LHR 15:15
VS23 B789 LHR - LAX 15:25

As you can see this is a turnaround of just 10 minutes
There is a second B789 which the program creates at commencement, and this forms
VS449 B789 LHR - JNB 20:05

The incoming VS24 should then form VS449
The existing VS449 aircraft should be forming VS23 instead

Any ideas on how to correct this?
Would changing the optimised file resolve this?

[Pedantic G]

Is it departing from the same arrival gate? Is the log stating that that the inbound VS24 forms the departing VS23 cycle? If not, it is not the same A/C allocated surely

Not sure what the turnaround time is set in this game is as a minimum (@WildCardmaybe able to confirm - I thought at least 30 mins) but I would change the arrival time of VS24 to later than the departure time of VS23 to resolve? Seems strange as the 15:15 would be the schedule time on DBRITE screen at the earliest and at 20 miles and allowing 6 mins to landing time (1.5 mins for 5 miles in game play) at 15:21 and taxiing to gate of at least 5 mins it would be departing just as its arriving at best

 

 

[EliGrim]

3 hours ago, Pedantic G said:

I thought at least 30 mins

Correct, there should be at least 30 minutes between them in the schedule. (If I'm not mistaken, the plane takes 20 minutes at the terminal to be ready for the next push back. @WildCard will certainly have the exact details.)

Especially with a full day schedule it is possible that more than one VS-B789 is at the terminal around 3 p.m. and then it is not guaranteed that VS24 becomes the restarter for VS23. The game decides which flights become restarters based on internal factors, and as far as I know, the flight number is not one of them. Therefore it should be taken care in the schedule that the game can only make VS24 the restarter for VS23.

[WildCard]

 

[crbascott]

The key point is restarter plane combinations are determined when the game is loaded. If an outgoing plane is part of a restarter combination it will still depart on time if it’s incoming parter has arrived - there is no logic to delay it the turnaround around time is less than what is realistic. However, an outgoing plane will depart late if the incoming restarter plane is very late (usually due to gate availability issues). And, like above, there is no built in turnaround time for these. I’ve seen planes call for pushback “immediately” after they’ve arrived at the gate.

So, for best results sort the schedule file per Wildcard’s suggestion and, as always, use schedule snippets - limit the schedule file to less than the full 24 hours.

[MJKERR]

Official Virgin Atlantic Airways Summer 2019 diagram :
VIR23 15:25 LHR - LAX
VIR24 LAX - LHR 15:15 -> Forms VIR449 20:05 LHR - JNB
VIR251 PVG - LHR 16:45 -> Forms VIR25 20:15 LHR - JFK
VIR461 22:30 LHR - JNB

Log file :
Restarter airplanes /   parent incoming: VIR24 - 14:55:00    outgoing: VIR23 - 15:25:00
Restarter airplanes /   parent incoming: VIR251 - 16:25:00    outgoing: VIR449 - 20:05:00
CREATE SERVER AIRPLANE: VIR461

I have tested again and VIR24 arrives at the stand at about 15:10
The B787 that is already in place is VIR461, but this should actually be VIR23

It looks like my 20 minute adjustment from entering airspace on DBRITE to arriving at stand has upset this aircraft / flight
I have noticed a few other flights that seem to turnaround very quickly, but this one was very obvious as the stands are directly under the tower
Reducing this to less than 20 minutes should correct this

I have also noticed the opposite occurs, where adding the 20 minutes should have resolved issues
There was a flight arriving into Terminal 4, and then one minute later was requesting pushback!
Again, there is a gap of 30 minutes, but it takes so long for the aircraft to transit across the airport

[FeelThere_Vic]

Quote

The game decides which flights become restarters based on internal factors, and as far as I know, the flight number is not one of them. Therefore it should be taken care in the schedule that the game can only make VS24 the restarter for VS23.

It's looking for the plane's type and the time between the arrival and the departure to decide if it's a restarter or a new flight. 

 

Vic

[MJKERR]

5 hours ago, FeelThere_Vic said:

It's looking for the plane's type and the time between the arrival and the departure to decide if it's a restarter or a new flight. 

Yes, I use the following priority criteria :
Airline, aircraft type, arrival time, departure time, stand availability

At no point am I using the flight number, it is only used in the schedule and for identification

The other two flights and aircraft are A330 and A343, and these are created correctly
It is only the B789 that has the issue
The second later arrival is correct (it makes little difference as both departures are after 19:00)

[EliGrim]

10 hours ago, MJKERR said:

There was a flight arriving into Terminal 4, and then one minute later was requesting pushback!

It takes about 20 minutes, maybe a little less, for an aircraft to be ready again at the terminal. That means lights off, trucks coming and going, lights on again. However, that is purely visual. (Tested at two airports. Whether, and if so how much, this time frame varies at different airports or due to whatever influences, I don't know.)
As @crbascott mentioned, if a restarter arrives late at the terminal, it can request pushback with a new flight number right away. This is of course not realistic but necessary for gameplay reasons (in T!3D).

So, if you want it to be as realistic as possible in terms of gameplay, you should give the flight at least 20 minutes at the terminal. This means that the time span in the schedule often has to be much more than 30 minutes. In addition, care must be taken to ensure that no identical aircraft type of the airline is available for the game at the time of the flight number change. (To be taken into account in the Schedule!)

For single flights this is possible. If you want to do this for all flights, it is almost impossible for schedules that exceed 1 or 2 hours, depending on the traffic volume and usually only feasible with fantasy schedules.

I did it once about 2 years ago with a 90 minute LAX schedule; and believe me, it was not worth the effort.

[WildCard]

11 hours ago, MJKERR said:

Restarter airplanes /   parent incoming: VIR24 - 14:55:00    outgoing: VIR23 - 15:25:00

The information to stop this has already been provided.

Cause of VIR24 restarting as VIR23: VIR24 arrives 30 mins before VIR23 departs, therefore VIR24 is an eligible candidate to become VIR23.

Your convoluted posts boil down to: I don't want VIR24 to become VIR23

Spoon-fed solution: Make the incoming time of VIR24 less than 30 mins before VIR23 departs. i.e. VIR24 LAX - LHR 14:56 or later

[MJKERR]

53 minutes ago, EliGrim said:

So, if you want it to be as realistic as possible in terms of gameplay, you should give the flight at least 20 minutes at the terminal. This means that the time span in the schedule often has to be much more than 30 minutes. In addition, care must be taken to ensure that no identical aircraft type of the airline is available for the game at the time of the flight number change. (To be taken into account in the Schedule!)

I need to check my Terminal 4 spreadsheet
The original airline schedule allows 20 minutes
My own schedule allows 20 minutes from DBRITE to stand, then the standard 20 minutes
However on both occasions it had arrived AFTER it should have departed
I may need to find this this weekend and work out exactly what this was happening
Maybe this aircraft for this airline always left late!