LAN NEtwork, widefs , Wideview conflict

[LT82]

tried posting this on Fs2004 forum but was advised to post here ....

Please advise :

I have a Home Cockpit with

Main System is P4 3.4GHZ , Windows XP SP2 as FLight sim with wideview (under IPX) dedicated as server. wired network

4 client computer running win xp SP1 as wideview Clients

I put my DSL internet connection via USB modem on one of my wideview Clients to keep the overhead on the main Flight sim computer as clean as possible.

system is stable and up to this point everything is fine, internet connection is available on all systems all computers see each other on the network.

laptop with widefs client is off .

The issue is I am attempting to install Squawkbox 3 and Widefs on a seperate laptop (no flight sim program) to run in this cockpit.under TCP/IP

So I install widefs in server mode on main server

and have added widefs client mode on centrino laptop (capable of Wired and wireless) to the network.

if I keep the computer client that has the USB Alcatel (Bellsouth)modem DSL internet connection totally off , Widefs on server connects to laptop just fine ,both show connected. (but obviously no internet connection available to Squawkbox as secondary computer wideview client with internet is off.

now if I turn on the Client with the internet connection on then try to run Widefs on laptop

I get a message in widefs "waiting for connection" on server and laptop.

and widefs stays in waiting for connection mode.

and I am not able to connect to internet on other computers over the LAN

even though internet is available on local client machine (non widefs)

and all the computers on the network see each other.in network connections

Firewall off , File sharing enabled both on Flightsim directory and squawkbox (Widefs)directory on laptop.

how do I get widefs on laptop to connect the the Flight sim server and get access to the internet originating on the other wideview client computer?

I hope I explained this clearly enough.

thanks

Allan "Seahawk"

[Pete Dowson]

if I keep the computer client that has the USB Alcatel (Bellsouth)modem DSL internet connection totally off , Widefs on server connects to laptop just fine ,both show connected. (but obviously no internet connection available to Squawkbox as secondary computer wideview client with internet is off.

now if I turn on the Client with the internet connection on then try to run Widefs on laptop

I get a message in widefs "waiting for connection" on server and laptop.

and widefs stays in waiting for connection mode.

and I am not able to connect to internet on other computers over the LAN

even though internet is available on local client machine (non widefs)

and all the computers on the network see each other.in network connections

How strange. I really do have no idea.

How are the other PCs getting their internet connection? Are you using Windows "ICS" (Internet Connection Service) for this, or a third party program like Sygate? I never got on at all well with any type of ICS -- eventually I gave up and got a cheap router -- which really is better as it acts as a firewall as well and effectively isolates your entire Network from the outside world.

If it is ICS, I wonder if somehow both the ICS and WideFS are attempting to use the same sockets -- I don't know how that would be possible.

Otherwise, possibly the traffic is clashing so much that neither is successful. But for that it must be a rather poor Network.

Is it the same if you try it the other way round -- i.e. get WideFS going before enabling the Internet connection on the other PC?

Firewall off , File sharing enabled both on Flightsim directory and squawkbox (Widefs)directory on laptop.

File sharing might matter to Squawkbox, I don't know, but it isn't used or needed for WideFS. Equally, just because Windows Explorer can see other PCs it doesn't mean other programs can do the same.

how do I get widefs on laptop to connect the the Flight sim server and get access to the internet originating on the other wideview client computer?

I hope I explained this clearly enough.

Yes, it's clear enough, thank you, but I really don't know enough about Networks to answer. I would proceed with a series of experiments to try to nail down the cause. For example, what if WidevieW isn't running? Maybe that is contributing. Try the Internet PC without running FS on that one.

With WidevieW traffic, Internet traffic, and WideFS traffic all attempting to use the Network simultaneously, I do hope you have a good fast Network with a switching hub, or even a Firewire daisy chain. Switches rather than Hubs help quite a lot because then every PC only gets traffic destined for it. This certainly helps WideFS and Internet traffic as they use point-to-point exchanges. WidevieW uses broadcasts I think, so that will still tend to flood things a bit.

As far as Network speed is concerned, the fastest at present is the Gigabit (1000 mbps) Ethernet connections, followed by Firewire (1394 or I-link) which is roughly equivalent to 400 mbps, then the ubiquitous 100 mbps. Do not use 10 mbps at all.

Also check all the settings on each Ethernet device. You don't really want auto-negotiation of anything, as that takes extra time on every exchange. Set the mode to the fastest common speed, full duplex, on all.

Finally, I'm a little surprised you were sent here from the FS2004 Forum. I assume this wasn't by Katy Pluta, who is one of the moderators there and is the person I tend to ask whenever I have a Network problem. It may be a good idea to ask for her advice over there, specifically.

Please let me know what you find.

Regards,

Pete

[LT82]

Dear Pete

First thanks for answering

Second : How do I reply to your questions and have your post included in my repy so I don't have to jump up and down the page all the time ???

Ok here goes

>>>you wrote

How are the other PCs getting their internet connection? Are you using Windows "ICS" (Internet Connection Service)

LAN is a switch hub onlyno router, 100 Mps individual IP addreses for computers

I orognanally connected the computers and ran Interent connection wizard on each computer .

selected the option for

this computer connects to the internet through another computer or Lan ((or something to that effect)

computer gets busty for a while and voila I had an internet avaiable on all computers.

you wrote>>>

Is it the same if you try it the other way round -- i.e. get WideFS going before enabling the Internet connection on the other PC?

this system is a home cockpit so its only purpose in life is to run FS9 currently five computers and seven screens. windows XP cleaned and minimal servces running. ie no messenger, no printer , no update service no restore etc. trying to get the most to run FS9.

OK lets reverse as you state above

SO I have my FS9 server running (my fastest computer ) start FS9.

second computer (with internet connection) is shutdown also all wideview clients shutdown .

crank up laptop start widefs

Good easy quick WideFS connection

but then I start up Second Computer and do not run FS9 on it only start internet connection. theoretically to get an internet connection avaialble to network so squawkbox on laptop could access internet .

result is internets available only on second computer .networked computers see each other and can access share file directories etc.

with widefs connected.

if I then run start internent explorer or Firefox on Server showing widefs connected or on laptop ,widefs client connected they search and reply is intennet not available ...

up to this point I haven;t even started or attempted to run wideview ( I do not think that that should be an issue as on purpose I run Wideview on IPX protocol and Widefs and internet are on TCP/IP but I never expected this conflict.between internet and widefs.

you wrote>>

Also check all the settings on each Ethernet device. You don't really want auto-negotiation of anything, as that takes extra time on every exchange. Set the mode to the fastest common speed, full duplex, on all.

I have individual IP addresses as per your instructions 192.168.0.nn

1 through 16)

but how do get to ethernet devices settings I tried through Hardware device manager and did not see auto negotiation mode .

.

last it has occured to me that when

widefsINI client is correctly set with servername "Server"

and on Server the widefs ini shows

Clientname appears correctly as" Laptop"

but there is no reference for where to look for the internet connection

and maybe widefs assumes internet to be on servername "server"and is looking for it to be there .

is it possible to set an widefs.ini parameter as

servername "SERVER"

internet servername " internet computer" (this case my second computer)

to look for internet at its correct location

????

Pete thanks for listening ,also thanks for developing such great tools to make the Flight sim world something Microsoft never thought it would become and providing so much fun for the rest of us.

regards

Allan

[LT82]

sorry for all spelling mistakes but my mind goes faster than I can type

and this has my mind going a mile a minute trying to figure what is going on

Allan

[Pete Dowson]

How do I reply to your questions and have your post included in my repy so I don't have to jump up and down the page all the time ???

Reply by clicking the "quote" button.

LAN is a switch hub onlyno router, 100 Mps individual IP addreses for computers

That's okay.

I orognanally connected the computers and ran Interent connection wizard on each computer .

Yes, ICS. I never got on with that. I don't know why -- something for a Windows XP/Network expert I think.

this system is a home cockpit so its only purpose in life is to run FS9 currently five computers and seven screens. windows XP cleaned and minimal servces running. ie no messenger, no printer , no update service no restore etc. trying to get the most to run FS9.

In that case, couldn't you do without ICS and just have the Modem connected to the PC running Squawkbox? You could also firewall and virus check on that PC. without internet access on all the others they should be safe.

on purpose I run Wideview on IPX protocol and Widefs and internet are on TCP/IP but I never expected this conflict.between internet and widefs.

There certainly shouldn't be any. I know nothing much at all about Networks, so, to write WideFS, I just used Microaoft example code -- literally, straight out of their SDK.

Since you have IPX/SPX up and running everywhere, why aren't you using that for WideFS? It is much more efficient -- less load on the Network, less interference with anything else. Have you tried it?

I have individual IP addresses as per your instructions 192.168.0.nn

1 through 16) but how do get to ethernet devices settings I tried through Hardware device manager and did not see auto negotiation mode .

It varies from Ethernet card to Ethernet card, but as an example see the section in the WideFS documentation entitled "Other Notes for Trouble-Shooting". There's even a picture there of what you might see. One of the entries in the list illustrated is "Line speed & Duplex" which by default gets set to "Auto" -- it is better at 100 Full Duplex. The list on your hardware may be different, but it should be there in some form or other. You could check some of the other entries in the list too -- make the number of sockets much higher for instance.

last it has occured to me that when

widefsINI client is correctly set with servername "Server"

and on Server the widefs ini shows

Clientname appears correctly as" Laptop"

As soon as you get a new connection working, WideServer will list it so that it can allocate unique numbers to any joystick or Goflight buttons coming from that Client.

but there is no reference for where to look for the internet connection

and maybe widefs assumes internet to be on servername "server"and is looking for it to be there .

WideFS does not use the Internet so it doesn't care where it is. It doesn't use file sharing either.

Regards,

Pete

[LT82]

Quote:

In that case, couldn't you do without ICS and just have the Modem connected to the PC running Squawkbox? You could also firewall and virus check on that PC. without internet access on all the others they should be safe.

A:

that was the original idea getting internet and antivirus off the FLight sim server so it went to this secondary computer

Squawkbox was to run on the laptop for voice communication. the laptop which still moves around with me not yet dedicated to this home cockpit therfore wanted to keep the internet origin on the secondary computer. I guess I could run Internet access off the server , flight sim and widefs all off one computer but then we get back to loading up the server.

Q:

Since you have IPX/SPX up and running everywhere, why aren't you using that for WideFS? It is much more efficient -- less load on the Network, less interference with anything else. Have you tried it?

A:

Can I run Wifefs and Wideview simultaneously over IPX? and will traffic over IPX slow network down?That was why I thought to Split Wideview over IPX and Widefs over TCP/IP

I will attempt tonight IPX when I get home tonight and let you know

Have not heard from Katy Pluta ,I tried messaging her ,could you maybe send her a message on my behalf to read over my dilemma and maybe she can help , As I am an ex-pilot and not a computer or network expert ny any means.

thanks

and will let you know how the IPX works

regards

Allan

[Pete Dowson]

Can I run Wifefs and Wideview simultaneously over IPX?

Well, it's IPX/SPX, and, yes, of course. WideFS was always IPX/SPX only -- for over 4 years -- before I added TCP/IP. The latter's only advantage is that it is easier to set up and is installed by default. Microsoft don't seem to care too much for IPX/SPX.

Incidentally, WideFS uses SPX (Sequential Protocol), because things need to be done in order. IPX, as used by WidevieW, is used for broadcasting and doesn't guarantee sequence.

and will traffic over IPX slow network down?

Not as much as TCP/IP, which has far more red tape and software levels to handle it. IPX/SPX was designed for small local Networks. TCP/IP is designed for the whole Internet. The latter needs a whole lot of stuff which is not needed at all when talking to the PC two feet away.

Have not heard from Katy Pluta ,I tried messaging her ,could you maybe send her a message on my behalf to read over my dilemma and maybe she can help

See how IPX/SPX goes first. Check the documentation. Your WideClient INI files don't work with ServerName and ServerIPAddr then, you need the ServerNode, which will be listed for you in the WideServer.LOG.

Regards

Pete

[LT82]

I am excited

will sit down tonight and give it a go

I think we are on to something

IPX here we come......

thanks

Allan

[LT82]

Dear Pete,

Eureka, Everything seems to fall right into place

Set the ServerNode and laptop connected right away

internet access became available on all computers .

As Long as IPX remains supported by Microsoft I guess we Are OK

thanks for all your patience and kind attention

I guess I am off into the wild blue yonder!!!!!!!

regards

Allan

[Pete Dowson]

Eureka, Everything seems to fall right into place

...

I guess I am off into the wild blue yonder!!!!!!!

Great! Good flying!

Pete