Having trouble with some axis calibration: CH yoke

[Ruahrc]

I just got a CH yoke, pedals, and throttle (whopee!) and am trying to get them all calibrated up in FS. I am using the latest FSUIPC 3.558.

What is happening is that I can't seem to be able to set the elevator axis using the "Joystick Calibration" dialog. Here's what I'm doing;

Go to the "axis assignments" tab.

Move the Yoke forward/back, until it is detected.

Select "send direct to FSUIPC calibration"

Check the first box, and select "Elevator"

from there I go to the Joystick Calibration tab:

Press "Set" under the Elevator heading

Here is where I run into trouble. Instead of setting it up straightforward like I was able to do with the Ailerons, Rudder, Brakes, etc.- I run into problems. I try to set a center null zone first using the centre "set" buttons. That works okay. Then I pull the stick all the way back, and press the "min" set button. The "IN" box reads 254 or 255, like it should. I press the min "set" button and instead of assigning the value of 254 to the min box, it puts the value 254 into each the Min, and both Centre boxes. I then push the stick all the way forward and the "IN" box reads 5 (or whatever), and if I try to press the max "set" button, there is no effect. I can press the reset button and try this again using different ordering (set the min first, or set the max first, etc) but eventually I press one of the "set" buttons and it overwrites my center values, throwing the calibration off. The "out" box is recording correct (but unusable, if that makes any sense) values according to the listed min/centre/max values, but since those are messed up it pegs at either 0 or 16384 or -16384.

I was having the exact same type of problem using my old version of FSUIPC (3.5.3) but it was happening with both the elevator and aileron axis. I was able to do the aileron axis okay this time with 3.558 but the elevator is messed up.

Do you have any ideas what is going on? I'm using the USB versions of the control devices btw. I am just using the buillt-in WinXP drivers for these devices (plug'n'play, autodetect) and have not installed CH's control software (I would prefer to do it all in FS and FSUIPC)

Ruahrc

PS, I plan on making some custom button/lever assignments for different aircraft that I own. Naturally I would take advantage of the "aircraft specific" feature for this. My question is, is this tied to the "title=" entry in the aircraft.cfg? And would I be able to manually manipulate the fsuipc.ini file to be able to copy/paste these assignments for multiple aircraft titles? I ask because for example if I have a particular aircraft that has 5 liveries, each would have a unique title and would thus require me to set FSUIPC up with each livery, unless I could manually copy/paste previously defined assignments and just change around the "title=" part or something in fsuipc.ini. But this may be the subject of a new topic just to keep things orderly (and once I get past this current problem)

[Ruahrc]

Edit: the thing with the aileron calibration must have been a fluke too: since I tried to re-calibrate it and it behaves just like the elevator calibration does.

BTW I have dis-assigned all axes in the FS assignments menus, FSUIPC should have complete control over all of the control axes.

Lastly: I noticed that I was getting some jerky movement with the ailerons, whether or not the "filter" checkbos was checked or not. I cannot observe any effects of using the filter checkbox on any of my axes (this was also the case in the previous version of FSUIPC 3.5.3 where I had things semi-sorted out control-wise, but the pitch/roll axis were still being a bit fiddly).

Ruahrc

[Pete Dowson]

I try to set a center null zone first using the centre "set" buttons.

Not a good idea. Always work from left to right, setting the minimum value first, then centre, then max.

The "IN" box reads 254 or 255, like it should.

Eronly if you are using the "RAW" setting, bypassing Windows' calibration. Why are you using Raw?

I press the min "set" button and instead of assigning the value of 254 to the min box, it puts the value 254 into each the Min, and both Centre boxes.

That is happening because 254 sounds more like the Max, not the Min. you cannot have the centre values LOWER than the MINIMUM. "MIN" means lowest value!

I then push the stick all the way forward and the "IN" box reads 5 (or whatever), and if I try to press the max "set" button, there is no effect

.

Of course not, because MAX means "maximum", so it has to contain a value larger than all the others. 5 is NOT larger than 254.

Please look up the meanings of the English words "minimum" and "maximum" and you will immediately see why what you are trying to do is impossible!

Calibrate them in the correct order, will low values left moving to high values right. If you want the elevator axis to operate the other way around, simply check the REVerse option too.It is probably reversed on input because you are using RAW for some reason.

... I would take advantage of the "aircraft specific" feature for this. My question is, is this tied to the "title=" entry in the aircraft.cfg?

I think it's the title. It is whatever uniquely identifies the aircraft to FS -- the name used in the FLT files, for instance. You can see the name in the Flap details section of the Calibration tab.

And would I be able to manually manipulate the fsuipc.ini file to be able to copy/paste these assignments for multiple aircraft titles? I ask because for example if I have a particular aircraft that has 5 liveries ....

There's an option, enabled by parameter in the INI, which allows you to shorten the "title" in the INI file [] headings and have them apply to all aircraft which match the title to the number of characters left. Please look for the "ShortAircraftNameOk" parameter in the Advanced User's document, described early on in the section on "Format of Button Definitions".

Regards,

Pete

[Ruahrc]

Thanks for explaining that- I was getting caught up I suppose because the words "minimum" and "maximum" do not make much sense when paired with "elevator" and "ailerons". Therefore I was reading the menus like "minimum aileron"... and didn't know if that was left aileron or right aileron or what...

The UI is in fact inconsistent regarding this because on some dialogs (for example the throttle ones) the labels are clear, i.e. "feather", "idle", etc. and refer to the in-game position of that particular control. Other dialogs, however (example, aileron and elevator) are merely labeled "min" and "max" and apparently refer to the value of the controller input as read in the "IN" box. This tripped me up, and personally I think it woudl be a bit clearer if you modified the aileron and elevator labels to read something like "left", "right", "forward", "back".

Anyways that clears up that issue.

Next issue- I am having a bear of a time working out these "aircraft specific" controls. It seems like I set up a set of controls for a particular aircraft class and it works great. Then I load up a different aircraft and go back to the FSUIPC dialog to configure the controls for that new aircraft. Once I have that finished, I switch back to the first aircraft only to find that the assignments I have made are either missing or have been overwritten to match that of the second airplane I configured.

More specifically, the "button assignments" work fine. It is only when I get to the axis assignments that things get screwy. The way I planned it was to assign the most basic axes to be common to all aircraft (pitch/yaw/roll/brakes). Then, all of my levers and buttons will be specific to each aircraft.

I followed the documentation and am able to navigate the axis assignments page in order to create a new axis assignment, but I am unsure as to the proper order of operations regarding the "aircraft specific" checkbox. It seems like sometimes I will check the box first, then make the assignment, and it looks okay. But then I move on to the next axis, (the box is already checked now) and when I select a new assignment for that axis, the box unchecks itself! And I have no idea of telling when a particular assignment gets saved, and whether or not it was saved as a global or specific assignment. Furthermore I am unsure as to how to review the current assignments for a particular aircraft, in order to make sure I have done it properly.

When exactly do changes in assignments get written to FSUIPC.ini? As soon as they are made? Or when you press "OK"? etc. What if I make manual changes to FSUIPC.ini, how do I see those updated changes in the FSUIPC options dialog, do I need to reboot FS or something?

If you could shed some light on what I might be doing wrong I'd appreciate it. I am happy though that I got my basic axes working... now just need to figure out the levers and "aircraft specific" configuration!

Ruahrc

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for explaining that- I was getting caught up I suppose because the words "minimum" and "maximum" do not make much sense when paired with "elevator" and "ailerons". Therefore I was reading the menus like "minimum aileron"... and didn't know if that was left aileron or right aileron or what...

This is the problem using generic calibration systems on such a huge variety of axes as supported by FSUIPC. Since the whole thing is based on numbers, I had hoped Min and Max was obvious. Sorry.

With all axes the orientation (left/right/forward/backward/pull/push etc) is all relative and dependent upon both hardware and driver implementation. This is why both FS and FSUIPC have "reverse" options. Spoilers/speed brakes for instance are off when pushed away from you, completely opposite to throttles. Flaps are the same. It all has to be configurable.

The UI is in fact inconsistent regarding this because on some dialogs (for example the throttle ones) the labels are clear, i.e. "feather", "idle", etc. and refer to the in-game position of that particular control.

Yes, I was trying to be helpful where I thought that confusion was less likely.

I think it woudl be a bit clearer if you modified the aileron and elevator labels to read something like "left", "right", "forward", "back".

Well, that would doubly confuse folks whose control was the other way around. Also I need headings for pairs of controls (or change the design considerably), so it is difficult to fit that in. On top of this, the interface has been like this for over five years and this is the first such complaint.

Seems most folks do manage to dollow the documentation -- I do provide steps there which should be clear. For instance the documentation most definitely doesn't tell you to start in the middle as you said you did. ;-)

More specifically, the "button assignments" work fine. It is only when I get to the axis assignments that things get screwy. The way I planned it was to assign the most basic axes to be common to all aircraft (pitch/yaw/roll/brakes). Then, all of my levers and buttons will be specific to each aircraft.

Unfortunately I had to make the aircraft-specific system for axis assignment work differently to that for buttons and keys. The "general assignments" do not apply to aircraft which have specific assignments. I did have it the way you are thinking, but that gives really terrible problems if on some aircraft you don't want one of those to apply. The reason is that connected axes are never inert. Unlike buttons and switches, even if they are not used they are providing inputs when polled, and those when enacted on an aircraft for which you didn't want cause havoc and utter confusion.

In the current implementation I simply only poll those axes assigned for the current aircraft, which solved a lot of weird problems.

Sorry that the interim documentation wasn't explicit here (it only shows when you compare the wording of that option for axes with that for buttons and keys). Here is my proposed User documentation paragraph replacing it:

Aircraft specific checkbox: this is where you can tell FSUIPC that the assignments for this axis are specific to the current aircraft. If this checkbox is not checked then the assignment applies to all aircraft which do not have any of their own specific assignments. NOTE that this is different to the way it operates in Button and Key assignments. Your generic (non-specific) assignments do not apply to any aircraft for which you make specific assignments. This difference is necessary due to the active nature of axes compared to unpressed buttons or keys.

Your best bet now, to save time, is to copy your generic settings from the general [Axes] section to the specific sections in the INI file. Just be sure to renumber the left-hand values to retain a complete nummeric sequence.

When exactly do changes in assignments get written to FSUIPC.ini? As soon as they are made? Or when you press "OK"?

When you confirm by pressing Ok. You can do all sorts of things throughout any of the FSUIPC option pages, but if you then cancel, close or escape they are all wiped and previous settings restored.

Then buttons, keys and axes are written to the INI, but many options are not written till the session is closed -- this emulates FS quite closely in its practices (we both use the same sort of mechanisms).

What if I make manual changes to FSUIPC.ini, how do I see those updated changes in the FSUIPC options dialog, do I need to reboot FS or something?

No, as it certainly says someplace in the documentation, you can always do that whilst running FS by simply using the Reload button -- there's one on each of the Axes, Buttons and Keys pages.

Regards

Pete