FSHotFSX & later versions of FSUIPC

[DavidH]

Versions of FSUIPC later than V3.40 don't work properly with FSHotSFX, as they cause the 'landing' sounds and 'reverser thrust' sounds of AI aircraft in FS9 to be delayed or not work at all.

Is there any solution to this?

David H

[Pete Dowson]

Versions of FSUIPC later than V3.40 don't work properly with FSHotSFX, as they cause the 'landing' sounds and 'reverser thrust' sounds of AI aircraft in FS9 to be delayed or not work at all.

Is there any solution to this?

3.40 is very very old. I'm sure that was fixed -- it's to do with the classification of AI aircraft states into "on ground" or "airborne" -- FSHotSFX only looks at one of the tables.

Just checking the History document for FSUIPC, this is the relevant item, in the list of changes for 3.47:

The classification of AI traffic into the airborne or ground TCAS tables was partly in error for AI aircraft in “Landing” state. These were classified as airborne even after touch-down. This is fixed in this release.

That was well over a year ago, and was confirmed as fixing it. The current version in 3.60. Please keep up to date.

Regards,

Pete

[DavidH]

Versions of FSUIPC later than V3.40 don't work properly with FSHotSFX, as they cause the 'landing' sounds and 'reverser thrust' sounds of AI aircraft in FS9 to be delayed or not work at all.

Is there any solution to this?

3.40 is very very old. I'm sure that was fixed -- it's to do with the classification of AI aircraft states into "on ground" or "airborne" -- FSHotSFX only looks at one of the tables.

Just checking the History document for FSUIPC, this is the relevant item, in the list of changes for 3.47:

The classification of AI traffic into the airborne or ground TCAS tables was partly in error for AI aircraft in “Landing” state. These were classified as airborne even after touch-down. This is fixed in this release.

That was well over a year ago, and was confirmed as fixing it. The current version in 3.60. Please keep up to date.

Regards,

Pete

Pete,

Thanks for your prompt reply. I have tried the latest versions of FSUIPC, I have a registered copy, and I can confirm that all versions of FSUIPC after v3.40 do cause FSHotSFX to delay the 'touchdown' and 'reverser' sounds until long after the AI aircraft have touched down. I know, because I've tried them all :).

I have the latest version of FSHotSFX, v1.1.61

DavidH

[Pete Dowson]

I can confirm that all versions of FSUIPC after v3.40 do cause FSHotSFX to delay the 'touchdown' and 'reverser' sounds until long after the AI aircraft have touched down. I know, because I've tried them all :)

By "long after", what do you mean? Can you check the AI status in TrafficLook and see what changes to cause it? Reversers do not normally get used until some time after touch down in any case -- all wheels down, then time to spool up.

I don't have the program and I don't know what it is doing. Certainly, the fix I put in was specifically for a problem with FSHotSeat, and the user who reported it tested it and approved.

Sorry, I really cannot do anything without the author investigating and telling me what the problem is. I suggest you contact him and ask him to investigate. We can resolve it between us then.

Regards,

Pete

[DavidH]

I can confirm that all versions of FSUIPC after v3.40 do cause FSHotSFX to delay the 'touchdown' and 'reverser' sounds until long after the AI aircraft have touched down. I know, because I've tried them all :)

By "long after", what do you mean? Can you check the AI status in TrafficLook and see what changes to cause it? Reversers do not normally get used until some time after touch down in any case -- all wheels down, then time to spool up.

I don't have the program and I don't know what it is doing. Certainly, the fix I put in was specifically for a problem with FSHotSeat, and the user who reported it tested it and approved.

Sorry, I really cannot do anything without the author investigating and telling me what the problem is. I suggest you contact him and ask him to investigate. We can resolve it between us then.

Regards,

Pete

Pete, I've tested FSHotSFX (not FSHotSeat), which I don't have) with FSUIPC V3.6, and, surprisingly, the 'tyre squeal' sound now actually happens about 4 seconds before the tyres hit the tarmac and generate smoke. So now we have V3.4 which works fine, then some subsequent versions when the 'tyre squeal' comes after the event, and now v3.6 where it comes before! TrafficLook just shows 'Landing'.

It is more difficult to check the reverser sound because the sound comes on more gradually, but it does seem to be OK now.

I'll goto the FSHotSFX Forum and see if I can get any joy there.

David H

[Pete Dowson]

I've tested FSHotSFX (not FSHotSeat), which I don't have) with FSUIPC V3.6, and, surprisingly, the 'tyre squeal' sound now actually happens about 4 seconds before the tyres hit the tarmac and generate smoke. So now we have V3.4 which works fine, then some subsequent versions when the 'tyre squeal' comes after the event, and now v3.6 where it comes before! TrafficLook just shows 'Landing'.

Yes, but in which list -- airborne or ground? If you saw it after touchdown still you must presumably have been looking at the ground list?

The whole trouble is that the "Landing" state starts when the aircraft is on finals, and only changes to "rolling out" for a short time some time after ground contact. In fact with the poll rate of many programs the 'rolling out' is often not seen.

What happened a couple of years (nearly) ago was that I was classifying it on ground or not based on the "on ground" flag, separate from the state flag. However, that turned out to be dodgy because of bouncing, and so on, and it was apparently too late for programs like hotSeat or HotSFX or whatever it was back then.

So, for the last year or more (since 3.47 in fact), I've classified the AI as "on ground" if their state is obviously one on ground (sleeping, pushback, taxi etc), or rolling out. "Airborne" likewise (departing, enroute, in pattern). That leaves two dubious ones:

"Take off 2" and "Landing": here, since 3.47, I classify them "airborne" if they are at least 50 feet off the ground (measured to their datum, so cockpit probably), otherwise ground.

There are other programs, like Radar Contact and AIsmooth, which depend on this stuff, so I needed to try to get it reasonable.

Really, unless we understand how FSHotSFX or whatever is making its decisions there's nothing we can do. I would be reluctant to change it again when it was confirmed as fixed over a year ago and is in common use the way it is now. As far as I can tell from watching programs which use this information, I think the methods I use now are fine.

Did you report this to the author or his support system at all? I don't know how you'll get it resolved else.

One thing you can do for more "responsiveness" (but possibly reduce your FS frame rates a little) is increase the Traffic poll rate in FSUIPC -- the default is only 10% of AI aircraft per frame. If increasing that to 100% removes the delay then the problems you are seeing may just be polling delays. Ideally FSHotXXX should allow you to configure the delay (positive or negative) to handle individual systems performances.

The parameter to change in FSUIPC's INI file is TrafficScanPerFrame.

Regards

Pete

[DavidH]

I've tested FSHotSFX (not FSHotSeat), which I don't have) with FSUIPC V3.6, and, surprisingly, the 'tyre squeal' sound now actually happens about 4 seconds before the tyres hit the tarmac and generate smoke. So now we have V3.4 which works fine, then some subsequent versions when the 'tyre squeal' comes after the event, and now v3.6 where it comes before! TrafficLook just shows 'Landing'.

Yes, but in which list -- airborne or ground? If you saw it after touchdown still you must presumably have been looking at the ground list?

The whole trouble is that the "Landing" state starts when the aircraft is on finals, and only changes to "rolling out" for a short time some time after ground contact. In fact with the poll rate of many programs the 'rolling out' is often not seen.

What happened a couple of years (nearly) ago was that I was classifying it on ground or not based on the "on ground" flag, separate from the state flag. However, that turned out to be dodgy because of bouncing, and so on, and it was apparently too late for programs like hotSeat or HotSFX or whatever it was back then.

So, for the last year or more (since 3.47 in fact), I've classified the AI as "on ground" if their state is obviously one on ground (sleeping, pushback, taxi etc), or rolling out. "Airborne" likewise (departing, enroute, in pattern). That leaves two dubious ones:

"Take off 2" and "Landing": here, since 3.47, I classify them "airborne" if they are at least 50 feet off the ground (measured to their datum, so cockpit probably), otherwise ground.

There are other programs, like Radar Contact and AIsmooth, which depend on this stuff, so I needed to try to get it reasonable.

Really, unless we understand how FSHotSFX or whatever is making its decisions there's nothing we can do. I would be reluctant to change it again when it was confirmed as fixed over a year ago and is in common use the way it is now. As far as I can tell from watching programs which use this information, I think the methods I use now are fine.

Did you report this to the author or his support system at all? I don't know how you'll get it resolved else.

One thing you can do for more "responsiveness" (but possibly reduce your FS frame rates a little) is increase the Traffic poll rate in FSUIPC -- the default is only 10% of AI aircraft per frame. If increasing that to 100% removes the delay then the problems you are seeing may just be polling delays. Ideally FSHotXXX should allow you to configure the delay (positive or negative) to handle individual systems performances.

The parameter to change in FSUIPC's INI file is TrafficScanPerFrame.

Regards

Pete

Pete,

I was using the Airborne list in TrafficLook. It remains on 'Landing' during touchdown & reverse thrust.

I tried changing the TrafficScanPerFrame parameter to 100, but it made no difference.

I've posted a message on the FSHotFSX Forum, addressed to the authors, but no reply as yet.

I'll keep you informed.

DavidH

[Pete Dowson]

I was using the Airborne list in TrafficLook. It remains on 'Landing' during touchdown & reverse thrust.

If you mean you SAW the AI aircraft touchdown, yet it still remained in the Airborne list, that's how it was for a while before I fixed it in 3.47. With it working like with the way HotSeat was then, you either wouldn't get the HotSeat sounds, or they'd be late. For them to be EARLY, the Landing aircraft must have moved to the Ground list with the aircraft still floating 50 feet over the tarmac.

If the aircraft moved to the Ground list correctly, just about on touchdown (maybe slightly before for a small aircraft, owing to the 50 feet check), then it sounds like the HotSeat author is now looking at the Airborne list instead of the Ground list -- possibly trying to compensate for the short period of incorrect classification (about two years ago).

There is obviously no way to resolve this without FSHotSeat involvement. I really don't know what they've done. I also don't understand why you originally said that ALL versions of FSUIPC after 3.40 had the sounds LATE, but now you say EARLY? The change to the current system, which is the best one all round, was in 3.47 about 15 months ago.

BTW just to crosscheck that it was all operating exactly the way intended I've just been watching aircraft landing at O'Hare (I chose somewhere nice and busy! ). The "Landing" state on the Airborne list starts on finals -- and not short finals either, but 10-16 nm or so out. But watching both lists at the same time, with a closeup on the runway, I can see them shift from the Airborne to the Ground list just about perfectly, when the dust kicks up from the touchdown.

I hope you get the answers from the author.

Regards,

Pete

[DavidH]

Steve,

I'm going to research this further. It will take time, because my FS9 takes simply ages to load because I have so much scenery, aircraft, Ultimate Traffic etc.

I will try various versions of FSUIPC at several different airports, and see what happens.

My experience has been that with some versions of FSUIPC the tyre squeal comes after touchdown, and some before.

David H