Setting Thrust Reverse, Prop Feather and Mixture Idle-Cutoff

[Turbohead]

After some more experimenting, I am almost there, I think. Or at least I am able to set a function, even thought it is not the function that I want.

For example, as an experiment, I have programed the following to help me understand the process:

Axis-I have programmed the Prop Lever for "Prop Pitch"

I have set up range 1 for -16384 -16384

Up and Down boxes checked

Control set when range entered=Spolilers on

Control set when range exited=Spoilers off

The result is, when the prop lever is back, it extends the spoiler. Whne the prop lever is forward, it retracts the spoilers. This works as I expected.

However, the problem is, I do not see anything to make the engines go into reverse in the "Control Sent" pull down box. Nor, do I see a way to press the F2 and F1 keys to make it go into recerse whne the prop lever is forward or back.

What am I missing?

Thanks again

Mark

[Pete Dowson]

I programmed the Prop axis, for (Reverser) and the result is, when I pull back on the Prop control, the engines spool up to about 30 to 40 %, but it doesn’t seem to ever go into the reverse mode as the F2 key functions.

The F2 function operates on the THROTTLE axis, not on the PROP PITCH axis. It sounds like you have things a little mixed up within FS rather than FSUIPC. If you use F2 for reverse thrust, to switch to using an axis instead you need to have a reverse zone on the throttle axis, not on the prop pitch axis.

I am a bit new to the UPIC.

Actually it's FSUIPC you mean. I suppose UIPC (Universal Inter-Process Communication) is okay for short. Sorry it is a bit unweildy -- historical, from FS5IPC and FS6IPC before it, from FS95 and FS98 days. ;-)

It seems to be a powerful tool, but I can’t seem to grasp some of it’s technical capabilities.

Hmm. Maybe, but in this particular case I think it is more that you are confusing FS functions rather than FSUIPC functions, as it sounds like you have those sorted okay. There's nothing about FSUIPC which changes throttle to prop pitch or vice versa. To use controls in FS you need to know about FS, not really about FSUIPC. FSUIPC just offers extra ways to apply the controls, that's all.

From your second message above:

However, the problem is, I do not see anything to make the engines go into reverse in the "Control Sent" pull down box. Nor, do I see a way to press the F2 and F1 keys to make it go into recerse whne the prop lever is forward or back.

What am I missing?

You are missing the fact that in FS (all versions, in fact), by default F1 is "throttle cut" and F2 is "throttle decrement", so you need to calibrate your throttle with a reverse zone. That's all. You seem to have confused yourself with prop pitch thinking? Or have I misread your words?

Regards

Pete

[Turbohead]

Maybe confused, but not giving up yet.

I guess the CH yoke / FS/ and FSUIPC won’t do what I want it to do.

I understand the real airplanes.

In a turboprop, there are throttle, prop, and condition levers. The prop control actually varies a governor that controls the prop pitch. The throttle controls control the fuel servo which controls fuel flow to the engine, and has a mechanical “Gate” at the idle position. Aft of the gate is some throttle control, but it also brings the props back past BETA, and into reverse. (8 to 12 deg negative pitch) Bringing the throttle back up to idle, takes it out of reverse, and back to beta + 9 deg. (not to be confused with beta reverse, which blocks the props from going into negative pitch in the event of an oil pressure failure).

In a jet, the throttle control obviously controls the fuel flow, and has a separate mechanism interlinked with a gate (similar to the turboprop). When the throttle is at idle, the reverser levers can be pulled up, and backwards, and they engage the reverser buckets on the engine. (The gate keeps the machine from going into reverse in flight) Returning the reverse levers to the normal position, stows the buckets, and brings the engines back to flight idle. Pulling the "throttles" up, and back, shuts off the fuel.

The CH yoke doe not have these functions, nor gates, or detents, so, there has to be a work around.

As mentioned previously, on the jet, I use the throttles as they are supposed to be used, and press the F2 key when I want to get into reverse. (I actually use a button on the left yoke to make an F2 key press). To get out of reverse, I simply add some throttle, and the reverser disengages.

On the Citation Jet, what I simply would like to do, “for reality sake”, is have the prop lever (since it is unused), do an F2 key press when pulled backwards, and an F1 key push when returned foward. This woud simulate the revrser lever.

I think I understand what you are trying to accomplish with the “Dead Zone” But what happens if you come too far back on the throttle, since there is not a mechanical gate, or detent? Seems like it would be tricky to keep it out of reverse.

Mark

[Pete Dowson]

I guess the CH yoke / FS/ and FSUIPC won’t do what I want it to do.

Not sure how you reach that conclusion.

The CH yoke doe not have these functions, nor gates, or detents, so, there has to be a work around.

Flight Sim has full range operations possible on all three axes -- throttle, prop pitch and mixture (or conditioner). The normal assignment, via FS, uses FS controls which only provide POSITIVE values for all these, running from 0 to 16383 (100%). But there are different controls, not assignable in FS itself, which provide ther negative portion of this range too, from as much as -100% (-16383).

FSUIPC offers the ability to use these other controls. As it says in the documentation, it does this automatically if you map the generic control (the one-for-all-engines control) on its first Calibration page to the 4 separate controls, on subsequent pages. Each of the generic control sections feature a "map to 4 xxxx" checkbox. Thast makes the one-for-all control map to the 4 separate controls, one for each engine, and on those pages you can calibrate a reverse range, with a central "idle" or its equivalent.

As mentioned previously, on the jet, I use the throttles as they are supposed to be used, and press the F2 key when I want to get into reverse. (I actually use a button on the left yoke to make an F2 key press). To get out of reverse, I simply add some throttle, and the reverser disengages.

Yes, I understood that, and pointed out the the F2 key is using "Throttle Decrement" which simply moves the throttle control into its negative range. This can easily be done the way I said, and the way documented in the FSUIPC User Guide.

On the Citation Jet, what I simply would like to do, “for reality sake”, is have the prop lever (since it is unused), do an F2 key press when pulled backwards, and an F1 key push when returned foward. This woud simulate the revrser lever.

Ah, so you want a separate Reverser instead of a reverse region on the same (throttle) lever? Yes, of course this can be done too.

There are two ways. One is really only suitable for jets -- that is to calibrate the reverser in FSUIPC, which by default in fact takes over the mixture assignment in FS. This was done because many folks preferred to use the throttle + prop levers as dual throttles, leaving the mixture lever at one end as the reverser. However, there is a parameter which can be changed in the JoystickCalibration section of the FSUIPC INI file to select a different control to act as reverser. But the control so assigned will then not be able to perform its normal function -- folks normally choose some other axis-type control they don't need in any case.

The other way is to use FSUIPC's axis assignments instead of FS's. Then, by selecting the "direct to fSUIPC calibration" option for the axis, it can be assigned directly to the reverser (or to one of up to 4 separate reversers). However, again, whatever axis is assigned cannot normally also be used for some other function simultaneously.

If I understand you correctly, now, you wish the prop pitch lever to act as a prop pitch lever in its forward part, but as a throttle reverser in its rear part, because the aircraft model you are using in FS uses throttle reversing, unrealistically, instead of prop pitch reversing. Is that right?

This is also possible in FSUIPC, but it is really a fiddle using facilities in an unintended way. In the axis assignment facilities you can assign the same axis to both prop pitch and to throttle reverser. But you'd need to then calibrate the two in such a way that there is a dead zone in the reverser action in the area where you want prop pitch actions, and vice versa. I've not tried this sort of thing myself, but it should be easy enough. You create "dead zones" by simply calibrating the maximum and minimum positions far away from their real positions on the lever.

I think I understand what you are trying to accomplish with the “Dead Zone” But what happens if you come too far back on the throttle, since there is not a mechanical gate, or detent? Seems like it would be tricky to keep it out of reverse.

Well, a large number of folks seem to manage okay. If you really want a gate, I would suggest glueing a little piece of rubber next to the lever's slot, something which just rubs enough on the lever to tell you where idle is. You also need a reasonably wide idle zone so that you can always be sure of parking it there, even allowing for any jitter or temperature variations in the axis readouts.

Regards

Pete

[Turbohead]

Yes, I wanted to make the CH yoke do something a bit unconventional.

As mentioned, or a Prop Plane, (Turbo Prop) I use the controls as normal.

Throttle=Throttle

Prop Control=Prop Control

Mixture=Condition Lever (Fuel Control-On /Off)

For a jet, I did the following

Throttle=Throttle

Prop Control=Reverser

Mixture=Fuel Control-On/Off

Optional—Mixture=Speed Break

It is really simple without all of the complications of null zones, or gluing paper to the control for a gate etc.

A..Open FSUIPC

B..Axis Assignment Tab

C..Make Aircraft Specific

D..Rescsn

E..Assign the prop control to be Prop Pitch

F..Set Range -16384 -16384

G..Check Up Down Boxes

H..Control Sent range entered=Throttle Decr

I..Control Sent Range Exited =Throttle Cut

Click OK and it is Done deal

Results=When the throttle is in the idle position, the prop lever can be pulled back, and the reversers deploy. Moving the Prop lever forward brings the engines back to idle and retracts the reversers.

Note: Moving the throttles briefly forward and back to idle will also disengage the reverser, but you will need to cycle the prop control back to forward for it’s next usage

You can also use the mixture control for a speed break rather than fuel on / off

Follow steps A-D

E..Assign the mixture control to be Mixture

H..Control Sent range entered=Spoiler on

I..Control Sent Range Exited =Spolier off

This works perfectly.

Mark

[Pete Dowson]

This works perfectly.

Okay, glad you are happy. Sounds like you are basically, in certain cases, turning an axis into a simple up/down spring loaded switch, ignoring its values and merely using the direction of change.

Regards

Pete