Need help with Traffic Density Toggle command

[macwino]

I've read all the manuals and posts and experimented for several days now with the Traffic Density Toggle command (C1009), but I can't seem to get it to work as I think it should. When I'm expecting 100% traffic, I sometimes get 50%. And I sometimes only get a change in the airline traffic but no change in the general aviation traffic even though I always keep the two of them in synch. I am manually programming this command because I want to have multiple uses for the assigned button. Again, the button works; I'm just not getting the response I'm desiring or expecting. I may be desiring or expecting too much. But let's see.

In its simplest form, I would like this command to change both my airline and GA traffic density to 100% if they're presently at 0%, and to 0% if they're presently at 100%. I can easily accomplish this using the Traffic Density Set (C1008) command and assigning it to two buttons, one set at 0% and the other set at 100%. But I'd like to use just one button and I thought that the C1009 toggle command could accomplish this objective. Perhaps I was incorrect.

The syntax I am using is "C1009,x", where I've tried both "0" and "100" for the "x" parameter. I have assumed that if "0" were the parameter, then it would toggle between "0" and "100", and that if "100" were the parameter it would similarly toggle between these two settings. I have tried both these settings, and sometimes nothing happens, sometimes it works, sometimes only the airline traffic density changes, sometimes I wind up with 50% traffic density for both airline and GA. So what am I doing wrong?

Also, it is not clear to me how the toggle ought to work if the present traffic setting was, for example, 50%, and I pressed the toggle button which had been programmed to toggle between "0" and "100". Should nothing happen, or should the traffic density change to "0" or "100", and if so which one and why? Also, if I wanted to have a button that toggled, for example, between "0" and "25", would "C1009,25" do it, or would this syntax wind up toggling between "25" and "100"?

I'm running XP SP2, FSX SP1, and FSUIPC v4.25. I am not a programmer, so please excuse any inappropriate terminology that I may have used in describing this problem or what I am doing.

Thanks, Robert

[Pete Dowson]

I've read all the manuals and posts and experimented for several days now with the Traffic Density Toggle command (C1009), but I can't seem to get it to work as I think it should. When I'm expecting 100% traffic, I sometimes get 50%. And I sometimes only get a change in the airline traffic but no change in the general aviation traffic even though I always keep the two of them in synch.

The toggle swaps between the previous value and 0 or 0 and the the previous value, unless you set a specific value in the parameter field. If you want to set a specific percentage then you need to use the Traffic Density Set control.

It does try to maintain the proportional relationship between the airline and GA values, where it can. But it really does depend how they are set, relative to each other, to start with. Its criteria is the Airline setting.

In its simplest form, I would like this command to change both my airline and GA traffic density to 100% if they're presently at 0%, and to 0% if they're presently at 100%.

You would need to manually set them both to 100 first, so that they are seen as equal. Then they should change together.

The syntax I am using is "C1009,x", where I've tried both "0" and "100" for the "x" parameter.

What's wrong with assigning them on-line, in the normal Button assignments dialogue? Seems odd editing an INI file for such a simple requirement.

I have assumed that if "0" were the parameter, then it would toggle between "0" and "100"

No, I think I programmed it so that 0 took the current value in FS, whatever it is, as its alternative to 0.

and that if "100" were the parameter it would similarly toggle between these two settings

Yes, it should do that for the airline traffic. The other is maintained in whatever proportion they were in.

I have tried both these settings, and sometimes nothing happens, sometimes it works, sometimes only the airline traffic density changes, sometimes I wind up with 50% traffic density for both airline and GA. So what am I doing wrong?

No idea, sorry. If you tell me your exact starting values, in FS (FSX I presume? You don't say), and your setting for the Toggle control, I'll test it again here. It's a bit of a hack even in FSX as Microsoft didn't provide it via SimConnect. Maybe something about the way I'm hacking it changed between FSX RTM and SP1 or SP2 -- I've not really used it since RTM. For this reason you need also to tell me your FSX version details (and FSUIPC4 version too of course).

Also, it is not clear to me how the toggle ought to work if the present traffic setting was, for example, 50%, and I pressed the toggle button which had been programmed to toggle between "0" and "100".

It should toggle to 0. Then next time to 100. But if the GA level was, say 60%, it couldn't set that to 120% so the proportions would go wrong. I'm not sure without looking at the code whether it reduces both to maintain the proportion, or merely caps it.

I'm running XP SP2, FSX SP1, and FSUIPC v4.25.

Ah. We should have started with that.

Okaytell me what you start with for the sliders, then what you do, and what you end with. I'll try it here. It might be a few days though.

Regards

Pete

[macwino]

Pete, now that I have a clearer understanding of how this command is supposed to work, let me play with it awhile and see if my problems are resolved. If not, I'll send you the anomalies I'm experiencing. No reason to bother you with this now until I do further testing.

Thanks again for the assistance.

Robert

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, now that I have a clearer understanding of how this command is supposed to work, let me play with it awhile and see if my problems are resolved. If not, I'll send you the anomalies I'm experiencing. No reason to bother you with this now until I do further testing.

Okay, thanks.

As far as I recall (I'll check the code when I have time), the simpler version in FS9 operated by these rules:

1. If the FS value is non-zero, and your parameter is zero, save this for use instead of your parameter, and set zero.

2. If the FS value is non-zero, and your parameter is non-zero, just set zero.

3. If the FS value is zero and your parameter is non-zero, set your parameter value.

4. If the FS value is zero, and your parameter is zero, and we have a saved non-zero value, restore that saved value.

5. If the FS value is zero and your parameter is zero, and we have no saved value (because we started off like this), then set 100.

I think that covers all possibilities.

The additional or other sliders brought in complications. It simply tries to maintain the same proportions with the others, but I can't remember what happens if it can't -- probably caps them, so that you then effectively lose the relationship.

If it doesn't appear to be doing all this, let me know and I'll analyse the code instead or trying to remember! ;-)

Regards

Pete

[macwino]

Pete, I just ran a few tests with the Traffic Density Toggle set to a parameter of 100. It doesn't work as intended.

First, I manually set my airline and GA traffic to 0%. I then ran the toggle and it reset my airline and GA traffic to 100%. So far so good. I then ran the toggle again and my airline and GA traffic stayed at 100% instead of returning to 0%. I also noticed that my Ship traffic was at 0% and I always keep it at 20%. I reset the Ship traffic to 20% and ran the toggle again. Again, the airline and GA traffic stayed at 100% when they should have changed to 0%. Interestingly, my Ship traffic was boosted to 100%.

So it seems that the multiple sliders in the FSX Traffic window are interfering with the intended operation of this control.

I'll just have to make do with the Set controls which work somewhat better, although they also adjust the Ship and ferries traffic at the same time as the airline and GA traffic. So there's some confusion with the numerous new sliders in FSX even with the Set controls.

Thanks for your assistance.

Robert

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, I just ran a few tests with the Traffic Density Toggle set to a parameter of 100. It doesn't work as intended.

Okaysomething must have changed. I'm a bit tied up till next week, but it is on my list to look at. I'm sure I'll be able to fix it. Watch for another update in the FSX Announcements above.

Thanks & Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

First, I manually set my airline and GA traffic to 0%. I then ran the toggle and it reset my airline and GA traffic to 100%. So far so good.

Actually, I just did this and I see one error. I had Ships at 20, which it correctly set to 0 on the first toggle, but the second set it to 100 -- it sohlud have maintained it in porportion, so, since I started with 100 : 20 it should have restored the 20. I'll find out what's gone wrong there.

But:

I then ran the toggle again and my airline and GA traffic stayed at 100% instead of returning to 0%. I also noticed that my Ship traffic was at 0% and I always keep it at 20%.

Looks like the Ships one was correct, and the others weren't. But, sadly, I cannot reproduce this problem here. The toggling between 0 and 100 works every single time I use the toggle.

So, it looks like I need to ask you to dig further. First of all, to guard against double-activations, could you do two things: first, enable both button and "Extras" logging (in the Logging tab), then repeat the test. Show me the log.

Then try testing it as I have been doing, by assigning a keypress (in Keys) instead.

I reset the Ship traffic to 20% and ran the toggle again. Again, the airline and GA traffic stayed at 100% when they should have changed to 0%. Interestingly, my Ship traffic was boosted to 100%.

Well, the latter is the only bug I've found so farI'll fix that anyway, but I need to understand why your system isn't "toggling off" after 2 togglings.

Regards

Pete

[macwino]

Pete, here are the results of the tests you asked me to run. The fsuipc log file is attached.

I set the key command Control+1 for the Traffic Density Toggle. I set the parameter to 100. I manually set the traffic density in FSX to 0% for Airline and GA and to 20% for Ships.

I then ran the key command. I wound up with Airline at 100, GA at 0, and Ships at 0. (On an earlier test for which I didn't create the log I got 20 for the Ships at this stage, not 0, although I've not been able to repeat this result.)

I then ran the key command again and got all 3 at 0.

I then ran the key command again and got Airline at 100, GA at 0, and Ships at 0.

I then ran the key command again and got all at 0.

I then ran the key command again and got Airline at 100, GA at 0, and Ships at 0.

Let me know if you need any more information. I know these results are different than those I posted earlier. So there's no consistency to my past experience. I ran this series of tests several times, however, and all the results were consistent with what's set forth above, except for the Ship traffic anomaly that I've noted in the parens and for which I don't have a log file.

Thanks, Robert

FSUIPC4 log.zip

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, here are the results of the tests you asked me to run. The fsuipc log file is attached.

I assume this is not with the fixed version 4.253 I posted this morning? It has the relationship between the Airline and other sliders working I think.

I set the key command Control+1 for the Traffic Density Toggle. I set the parameter to 100. I manually set the traffic density in FSX to 0% for Airline and GA and to 20% for Ships.

That's an odd starting set! I must admit I've not tested with that sort of arrangement!

I then ran the key command. I wound up with Airline at 100, GA at 0, and Ships at 0.

Yes, I think that would be correct with the bug I mentioned earlier, now fixed.

I then ran the key command again and got all 3 at 0.

Yes, correct.

I then ran the key command again and got Airline at 100, GA at 0, and Ships at 0.

I then ran the key command again and got all at 0.

I then ran the key command again and got Airline at 100, GA at 0, and Ships at 0.

Good. So that confirms it - the toggle is working perfectly on the Airline slider (which is what I found, and what I didn't understand about your earlier report where it didn't), and the other sliders getting stuck on zero is the bug I described to you earlier which I think I've fixed in 4.253.

Thanks! Better download 4.253 now. If you find it still wrong, let me know, but it seems good here.

Best Regards

Pete

[macwino]

Well, Pete, how well this works all depends where you start from. Let me explain. I installed v4.253. And I again started from my manual settings of Airline and GA at 0% and Ships at 20%. (I didn't note before - and this will become relevant later - that I have Road Vehicles and Leisure Boats also set for 20%.)

When I activate the toggle key, I get the exact same series of results that I reported in my previous post. So v4.253 is no improvement.

However, if I manually set the traffic to 100% for Airline and GA, and 20% for Ships, and then activate the key, I get what is apparently supposed to happen. Thus I get 0% for Airline and GA. I also get 0% for Ships. Then, if I activate the key again, I get 100% for Airline and GA, and 20% for Ships. And continued key activations will follow this pattern.

So for the command to work properly, it seems that you have to start with a traffic setting of 100% for Airline and GA at least.

I tried the process again starting with a manually set traffic density of 75% for Airline and GA, and it worked fine, reducing it to 0% and then increasing it to 75% - all the time, remember, that my fsuipc density parameter was set for 100. So it appears to me that what's going on is that a parameter of 100 means 100% of the then existing traffic density, which will toggle to 0%, and then back to 100% of whatever density level you started with. And so long as you don't start with a density level of 0%, all will work as intended.

Now let me mention Road Vehicles, Ships, and Leisure Boats. I have all these sliders set manually for 20%. It is noteworthy, however, that only the Ships slider is affected by the traffic density toggle command. The other two categories remain at 20% throughout all my tests. My personal preference would be for none of these 3 ancillary sliders to be affected by the toggle. But that's neither here nor there. What's important, I think, for you as the programmer of all this, is that these 3 ancillary sliders should also probably move in unison with the toggle - or, as I would prefer, not move at all with the toggle. Just an observation for what it's worth.

Thanks for all your assistance on this. This is a very workable solution and I appreciate your courtesy and responsiveness.

Robert

[Pete Dowson]

Well, Pete, how well this works all depends where you start from. Let me explain. I installed v4.253. And I again started from my manual settings of Airline and GA at 0% and Ships at 20%. (I didn't note before - and this will become relevant later - that I have Road Vehicles and Leisure Boats also set for 20%.)

When I activate the toggle key, I get the exact same series of results that I reported in my previous post. So v4.253 is no improvement.

As I said, I was most surprised at the odd initial arrangement you stated before. Having a normal start of no traffic except Ships seems extraordinary, and it is probably wrecking the calculations. I'll look at that. But I would say that you are likely to be the only person in the world which such a strange configuration!

However, if I manually set the traffic to 100% for Airline and GA, and 20% for Ships, and then activate the key, I get what is apparently supposed to happen. Thus I get 0% for Airline and GA. I also get 0% for Ships. Then, if I activate the key again, I get 100% for Airline and GA, and 20% for Ships. And continued key activations will follow this pattern.

Correct.

So for the command to work properly, it seems that you have to start with a traffic setting of 100% for Airline and GA at least.

No, not at all. The GA is on the same status as Ships -- it is not treated any differently at all. The only thing I suspect it needs is for all of them to be non-zero or all zero, to start with. The problem is probably in the odd arrangement of their being no Airline traffic for it to maintain in proportion with the others, in your unusual starting arrangement (effectively you have infinitely more ships than anything else).

It looks like a special case, that's all. I'll look at it when I get time. But i'd be interested in why you have only ships and nothing else to start with?

So it appears to me that what's going on is that a parameter of 100 means 100% of the then existing traffic density, which will toggle to 0%, and then back to 100% of whatever density level you started with.

No, I don't get that happening here. It only uses the original value if your parameter is zero.

I don't understand why it is different for you. :-(

Now let me mention Road Vehicles, Ships, and Leisure Boats. I have all these sliders set manually for 20%. It is noteworthy, however, that only the Ships slider is affected by the traffic density toggle command.

I can't handle anything which isn't "AI" (i.e. operated to a plan and a shedule. The others don't, the are just moving graphics effects, not AI traffic at all.

What's important, I think, for you as the programmer of all this, is that these 3 ancillary sliders should also probably move in unison with the toggle

I have no idea how to hack into the grahics stuff. I only did it for AI traffic. Sorry.

or, as I would prefer, not move at all with the toggle.

Well, as the whole point is for performance adjustment, and Ships, in places where there are ships, are each almost as costly in performance terms as AI aircraft, I think it right to include them. I would like to include the two graphics effects, but i don't know how.

I'll recheck your "100 means 75" assertion, but I'm pretty sure it worked fine here when I checked before. But certainly I need to look at the 0 airline, nonzero ships (or GA). That's probably messing the calcs up.

Regards

Pete

[macwino]

OK, now I understand why you included Ships and not the others. I didn't appreciate the difference, but now it makes perfect sense to me.

Sorry about my strange setup. My practice has been to set the 3 ancillary sliders - including Ships - at 20% and leave them there, and vary the Airline and GA traffic depending upon the plane I was using or whether I was in a rural or urban area, but always keeping the Airline and GA in synch. I didn't realize that when in a coastal region Ships might have a significant impact on my frames. Now I know and will act accordingly!

Thanks for making this all so clear.

Robert

[Pete Dowson]

Well, Pete, how well this works all depends where you start from. Let me explain. I installed v4.253. And I again started from my manual settings of Airline and GA at 0% and Ships at 20%. (I didn't note before - and this will become relevant later - that I have Road Vehicles and Leisure Boats also set for 20%.)

Okay. I've checked all this out, and everything you stated is actually explained by the initial setting of 0 for the Airline density. Since everything operates according to that one slider, it uses the initial value as the guidance -- in fact it only saves the values (for re-storing on the Toggle) when the value of the Airline density is non-zero, because it is designed to toggle to and from a zero value. The other sliders just follow from that, so when the airline density is zero, it is expected that the other two would be zero as well.

I'm really not sure how to cater for your case, where you start with it toggled off. I can of course make a special case of it, but I'm not sure now what you would expect to happen when you toggled a 0/0/20 setting. Do you expect it to go to 0/0/0 or X/X/0 (where X is the parameter value)? In other words were you hoping to switch ships off when switching airlines on and vice versa? That's really contrary to the purpose.

I've had a look at this with various options, and I think the only "toggle" that makes any real sense in your case is if I save the values on first entry even if the airline density is zero, then do this:

0/0/20 (airlines/GA/Ships)

Toggled with parameter X (if X is non-zero)

---> X/X/20

Toggled again

--->0/0/0

Thereafter it would toggle between those two sets of settings, so you never again see them as 0/0/20.

Regards

Pete

[macwino]

Pete, no need to program any special cases for me. The fix you added to v4.253 is more than adequate for my purposes. Now that I understand how the toggle is designed to work, I adhere to three principles that comport with the design of the toggle and I'm fully satisfied with its operation.

Principle 1 is that it is okay for Ships to be reduced to 0 when Airline and GA are reduced to 0, and may indeed be desirable. This principle is premised on the framerate hit you called to my attention, and I can now accept the toggle reducing Ships to 0 when Airline and GA are being reduced to 0. Therefore, my apparently unique approach to the Ships slider is no longer an issue that need be accounted for.

Principle 2 is that I should always insure that the density level of Airline, GA, and Ship traffic is greater than 0 before activating the toggle the first time during a flight, unless, of course, I desire that category to remain at 0. This is easily done, if necessary, or confirmed in the setup screen before any flight is launched.

Principle 3 is that the parameter for the button should be 100, assuming that you want to maintain the starting density levels for the 3 sliders as one set of the toggle, the other set being 0.

Again, by following these two principles, the toggle works like a charm. So no need to devote any further time on this - for me anyway.

Thanks again for your efforts.

Robert

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, no need to program any special cases for me.

Well, it isn't just for you. I'm using you as a sounding board (sorry). I need to program it so that others won't be surprised so much about what happens.

Principle 1 is that it is okay for Ships to be reduced to 0 when Airline and GA are reduced to 0, and may indeed be desirable.

Yes, that part is okay and I've really got to do that anyway.

Principle 2 is that I should always insure that the density level of Airline, GA, and Ship traffic is greater than 0 before activating the toggle the first time during a flight

Well, it is only the airline descity really, as it is that which tells FSUIPC that it needs to save the values so it can restore them. I mistakenly assumed this is any case.

I am fixing it so you DON'T have to ensure any of this, but I want to also ensure that the results you then get aren't a surprise. Thus my current proposal (the 0/Y/Z -> X/Y/Z -> 0/0/0 -> X/Y/Z system, where those are Airlines, GA and Ships).

Principle 3 is that the parameter for the button should be 100, assuming that you want to maintain the starting density levels for the 3 sliders as one set of the toggle, the other set being 0.

I don't understand this part at all. If I want my airline leve to toggle between 0 and 60 (which I do), then I would prefer to specifically set 60 as the parameter. Why would you only ever want 100? Please, can you explain?

Regards

Pete

[macwino]

Pete, I'm happy to be a sounding board for this; I just didn't realize you were using me for this as I hardly feel competent for such an undertaking. Be that as it may, ping away.

Your current proposal (the 0/Y/Z -> X/Y/Z -> 0/0/0 -> X/Y/Z system) seems just fine. Let me just clarify it with some real numbers to be sure we're on the same page. Assume 0/60/20 to start and your parameter is 60. Activating the toggle will change it to 60/60/20. Activating the toggle again will change it to 0/0/0. Activating the toggle again will change it to 60/60/20. And so forth. Is this correct? If so, the concept is fine.

As far as Principle 3 is concerned, I based this on two factors. One is the egocentric one that I generally fly at 100 or 0. So for me 100 is the desirable parameter.

But that doesn't explain why I said it should always be 100 even for those who choose to use a starting density lower than 100 other than 0 such as yourself. That conclusion results from some of my testing over the past 4 days that I unfortunately didn't document. This conclusion may have been reached before you made the v4.253 adjustment. Or it may have arisen from my also experimenting with some Traffic Density Set commands as well as the toggle and any resultant confusion that may have created.

In any event, I had found that exercising the toggle was giving me proportional densities, not direct densities. In other words, if my density was set at 50 and I applied a toggle parameter of 100, I got 50. But if I applied a toggle parameter of 50 I got 25, or 50% of 50. I'm not able to repeat this now, however: 100 gives 100 and 50 gives 50. I was also getting a proportional reduction in Ship traffic density as well. A parameter of 75 would leave me with a density of 15 assuming a start point of 20; a parameter of 60 would give me 13, etc. In my testing now I found this to still be a little wacky. I tried a parameter of 60 when starting from 20 and wound up with 33, or 160% of 20. Again, I think I'm just probably making too many changes - perhaps without first clearing the fsuipc toggle memory or something like that - and that's why I'm getting these strange results.

But here's a series of results that I just got with clean boots of FSX that may be of interest to you. In a sense it confirms the behavior I noted above that led to the proportional results I once obtained, and may explain why I reached the conclusion (only partially erroneous as you will see below) that the parameter was providing proportional and not direct results.

I set the parameter to 60 in the ini. I then launched FSX and set the traffic for 100/100/20. I then loaded a flight and it displayed the traffic as I'd set it before loading, namely 100/100/20. I then ran the toggle. The traffic changed to 0/0/0. So far so good. Then I ran the toggle again. I got 60/60/12. In other words, the Ship traffic of 20 was reduced to 60% of 20, or to 12. Query whether the Airline and GA traffic are truly being set to 60 directly by the toggle, or are also being set to 60 indirectly as a percentage of the original traffic density of 100?

To test this, I shut down FSX and re-launched it leaving the density parameter set at 60 as before. I then set the traffic levels at 50/50/20 and loaded a flight. I confirmed that the traffic levels had stuck and then I ran the toggle. I got 0/0/0 as I should. I then ran the toggle again. I got 60/60/24. So it looks like the Airline and GA traffic density is being directly and not proportionately set. (I think this is a fair conclusion, but I might be wrong. It's always possible, I suppose, that fsuipc is comparing 60 to 50, determining that 60 is 20% greater than 50, and entering 60 on the basis of the comparison and not directly. I don't know how to test this hypothesis, but you probably do.) But again the Ships traffic is obviously - at least to me - definitely being set proportionately by the toggle. It seems that the 20% increase in the Airline and GA traffic density mandated by the toggle parameter - although perhaps as a direct increase and not as a % increase - is being applied as a % increase to the Ships traffic, with 24 being 20% greater than 20.

I ran this same test again starting at 40/40/20 with the parameter of 60. I wound up with toggle settings of 60/60/30. So the 50% increase mandated by the toggle was again translated into a 50% increase in the Ships traffic.

I think that what this all means is that before running the toggle, you should be sure the density settings are where you want them to be and then the switch will toggle correctly between 0 and your designated parameter.

Pete, I hope this is of some assistance and that I'm not too far off base.

Robert

[Pete Dowson]

Assume 0/60/20 to start and your parameter is 60. Activating the toggle will change it to 60/60/20. Activating the toggle again will change it to 0/0/0. Activating the toggle again will change it to 60/60/20. And so forth. Is this correct?

Yes.

I had found that exercising the toggle was giving me proportional densities, not direct densities. In other words, if my density was set at 50 and I applied a toggle parameter of 100, I got 50. But if I applied a toggle parameter of 50 I got 25, or 50% of 50. I'm not able to repeat this now, however: 100 gives 100 and 50 gives 50.

Yes, that is at it always has been, in FSUIPC3 and in FSUIPC4. I don't know how you got the odd results because there's never been any code in there to compute any proportions for the airline slider. Never!

I was also getting a proportional reduction in Ship traffic density as well. A parameter of 75 would leave me with a density of 15 assuming a start point of 20; a parameter of 60 would give me 13, etc.

Yes, that is absolutely correct, exactly as documented and intended. The same applies to the GA slider. Only the Airlines one is 'absolute'. FSUIPC attempts, as far as possible, to keep the others in proportion. That's the whole point -- if you set them to get only a fifth of GA traffic compared to Airlines, it should stay that way.

In my testing now I found this to still be a little wacky. I tried a parameter of 60 when starting from 20 and wound up with 33, or 160% of 20.

It depends on what your Airlines value was -- as I keep repeating and repeating, the guide is the airlines slider. Everything else is subservient to that. There's nothing "wacky" whatsoever. You seem to be expecting something entirely different to what is intended and documented, and repeated by me here over and over.

Again, I think I'm just probably making too many changes - perhaps without first clearing the fsuipc toggle memory or something like that - and that's why I'm getting these strange results.

There's no such thing as too many changes. I think you are not realising that it is the AIRLINES SLIDER which rules the rest!

I set the parameter to 60 in the ini. I then launched FSX and set the traffic for 100/100/20. I then loaded a flight and it displayed the traffic as I'd set it before loading, namely 100/100/20. I then ran the toggle. The traffic changed to 0/0/0. So far so good. Then I ran the toggle again. I got 60/60/12. In other words, the Ship traffic of 20 was reduced to 60% of 20, or to 12.

Absolutely right. But it is only 60% because your airline slider started at 100. 60/100 = 60% If your airline slider had started at 50 you'd get a different result. "Percents" are only because of the 100's you are using.

The proportions are maintained, See? 100:100:20 == 60:60:12. Exactly right, exactly as documented and repeated by me here many times in this thread.

You are confusing a VALUE of 100 with "100%". If you had started with 80 instead, it would be !/80ths, not a percent at all!

I shut down FSX and re-launched it leaving the density parameter set at 60 as before. I then set the traffic levels at 50/50/20 and loaded a flight. I confirmed that the traffic levels had stuck and then I ran the toggle. I got 0/0/0 as I should. I then ran the toggle again. I got 60/60/24. So it looks like the Airline and GA traffic density is being directly and not proportionately set.

No, that's simply wrong. Only the airline slider is being set directly -- the other two are maintained in proportion to their original settings. Look:

50:50:20 == 60:60:24. Correct! They are all in the same proportion to each other still, as documented, as intended!

You are confusing yourself constantly by using the same values for two of the sliders. If you had 50 as the parameter and started with 30:20:10 you'd get 50:33:16, the Airline value changing to 50 as requested and the others staying in correct proportion.

I really don't know how many more ways of saying exactly the same thing I'm afraid, so I'm giving up after this: THE AIRLINE SLIDER IS CHANGED AS REQUESTED, THE OTHER TWO ARE MAINTAINED IN PROPORTION AS FAR AS POSSIBLE. So that if you want a quarter GA compared to airlines, it stays that way, in proportion. PROPORTION, see? Not percentages, there are no percentages involved.

Your results are ALL explained by this -- the only oddity which was occurring was when you started off with Zero in the airline slider, as then it is impossible to compute a proportion for the other two (you can't divide by zero and get a useful result).

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Sorry, it seems I cannot explain things to you at all. It all seems so easy and obvious to me, designed to be simple to use and understand. I cannot understand how you see it in such a complicated fashion. The airline slider is the one you 'toggle', the other two are just maintaining their relationship with it. I'm sure this is of the most use -- as i say, if i want half as much of one as the other, I still want that afterwards.

Pete