FSUIPC 4.26 stops responding

[gassa]

Hello,

I'll check the framerates tonight, as well as the smoothness.

Martin

[MvT]

However, it does mean, I think, that every call to scan for button presses is taking close to or more than 5 milliseconds when that driver is in use. Don't you notice any reduction in FS frame rates or smoothness when using the CH Manager?

I think the CHManager software can cause more problems. Yesterday it even halved my frame rates. Removed FSUIPC.dll, started FSX, selected a mission as I did before (soaring tutorial) and frame rates were ok again. Copied back FSUIPC, reboot PC, not loading CHManager, started FSX, same mission and frame rates were still ok. Loaded CHManager --> frame rates halved.

I renamed ini-file and let FSUIPC build a new one. Started FSX (with CHManager running), selected the same mission and frame rate were ok. I'm now reassign my controllers again (have done 2 default planes) and I don't see a difference between frame rates yet whether I run CHManager or not.

It could be my own fault because in my old ini file I had assigned 2 controllers (CH Yoke and Saitek X45 joystick) to the same axis at the same time and because there is a joystick configured that does not exist anymore (CHManager changed my CH yoke from joy0 to joy4).

Because I'll like to know what causes the problem i'll tried to assign my controllers as "clean" as possible (Only assign 1 controller at the same time and no extra controllers) and see if or when it will lower the frame rates. But I think it's best not to use the CHManager when you assigning your controllers with FSUIPC. (Actually I don't think there is a function that CHManager can do that FSUIPC can't, although I like the "Shift"-button function. Controller are being correct detected by Windows XP (I think Vista too but have to check) without installing the software)

PS: I also tried my old ini file with V4.26, but the frame rates were halved as well to be sure it's not related to V4.262. I haven't changed a function in FSUIPC other than axis assignments yet, while in my old ini file I had changed some settings. But I don't think that will be the problem.

Regards,

Marcel

[Pete Dowson]

I think the CHManager software can cause more problems. Yesterday it even halved my frame rates. Removed FSUIPC.dll, started FSX, selected a mission as I did before (soaring tutorial) and frame rates were ok again. Copied back FSUIPC, reboot PC, not loading CHManager, started FSX, same mission and frame rates were still ok. Loaded CHManager --> frame rates halved.

This is extreme, but it doesn't surprise me if CH Manage is taking at least 5 mSecs every time it is being polled for button presses.

The main FSUIPC parameter to experiment with is "PollInterval" which can be added to your main [buttons] section (create one if there isn't one there already). THe default is PollInterval=25, meaning FSUIPC polls for buttons every 25 mSecs (i.e. 40 times a second). If this is halving your frame rate it seems to mean that CH Manager is taking about 12 mSecs to deal with each polling call. No wonder the dialogue hung -- that was polling at 5 mSec intervals!

Assuming it is a 12 mSec delay on each call, you really want to either not use it, or set the FSUIPC PollInterval to something similar to FS's own (about 6 per sec U think, or PollInterval=166).

For more information on this check the PollInterval parameter in the Button programming section of the FSUIPC Advanced User's Guide.

Regards

Pete

[gassa]

Hello,

Unfortunately, I noticed a big hit in FPS too.

What I now do is unsing version 4.262 for changing assignments and 4.26 for flying.

Kind regards

Martin

[Pete Dowson]

What I now do is unsing version 4.262 for changing assignments and 4.26 for flying.

Sorry, but that's an absolute nonsense!

You are misinterpreting everything completely. The difference which matters in 4.262 is only in the Buttons Options screen. There's absolutely no difference between 4.26 and 4.262 for button scanning in normal use -- there's been no change to that at all!

The "big hit" applies to ALL versions of FSUIPC, including FSUIPC3, because the delay in in the CH control manager!!!! None of you even bothered to notice until I pointed out that it must, logically, be there, because of the appalling inefficiency of CHM.

The only "fix" to this is to either disuse CHM or make FSUIPC's button polling less frequent, as I've already explained (and no even documented in the Release Notes).

Pete

[MvT]

Assuming it is a 12 mSec delay on each call, you really want to either not use it, or set the FSUIPC PollInterval to something similar to FS's own (about 6 per sec U think, or PollInterval=166).

Confirmed, that solved the problem.

Before I tried that I had already done some more testing. I renamed my "bad" ini-file and begin to removed axis and buttons in the ini-file one by one. I finally nailed down the problem where it goes wrong. As soon as I removed all axis and buttons of joystick 0 (which was my yoke controller number without loading the CHManager) the problem was gone. Even changing to another non existing number solved the problem.

Here's a movie where you can see the difference:

http://www.fs-addict.com/downloads/CHManagerproblem.wmv

Although it's hard to see due to compression this is what i did:

- FSX loaded without joy0 assignment --> frame rates around 15FPS

- Changed R6 (non existing controller) in R0 (doesn't exist either but is my joystick controller without CHManager running) --> frame rates around 8 FPS

- Changed R0 in R6 again --> frame rates are back again.

Movie is not edited except compressed and without the PollInterval trick. All other assignments of controller 0 already removed in FSUIPC.ini file.

So far my experience with CHManager. I'll see if I can find an email adress on the CHproduct website and contact them. Maybe they will solve this in another CHManager release. Until then I'll forget the CHManager software.

Regards,

Marcel

[Pete Dowson]

Assuming it is a 12 mSec delay on each call, you really want to either not use it, or set the FSUIPC PollInterval to something similar to FS's own (about 6 per sec U think, or PollInterval=166).

Confirmed, that solved the problem.

Yes, as I thought.

As soon as I removed all axis and buttons of joystick 0 (which was my yoke controller number without loading the CHManager) the problem was gone. Even changing to another non existing number solved the problem.

Sorry, I don't understand. You had assignments to a joystick which doesn't exist? That should simply return an error to FSUIPC so it will desist. Can you verify that Joyview shows nothing for such a joystick?

So far my experience with CHManager. I'll see if I can find an email adress on the CHproduct website and contact them. Maybe they will solve this in another CHManager release. Until then I'll forget the CHManager software.

But I am now even more mystified. If it only a problem when you have assignments to a non-existent joystick, why would CH want to fix it, and why would you need to disuse it?

Regards

Pete

[MvT]

Sorry, I don't understand. You had assignments to a joystick which doesn't exist? That should simply return an error to FSUIPC so it will desist. Can you verify that Joyview shows nothing for such a joystick?

The reason why I had assigned a joystick that doesn't exist is because that's the way CHManager works. I had first configured my controllers in FSUIPC without the CHManager running. Later I decided to try the CHManager software. After configuring and downloading my configuration in CHManager, CHManager rearranged my yoke in Windows from joy0 to joy4. Ofcourse I had to reconfigure my yoke again in FSUIPC after that, but the old joy0 assignments were still in the FSUIPC.ini file.

I'll have to found out now why CHManager is changing my controller number in Windows and whether or not this is normal. It could be this is caused by changing USB-ports. Strange is my pedals are still reported as Joy1 (joystick2 in Joyview) whether I load the CHManager or not, while I changed both USB-ports. I shall try this on my vista installation, see what happens then.

Here are the reports in Joyview before and after loading CHManager. As you can see, there is no input reported on Joy0 after loading the CHManager software:

Before CHManager joystick 1 (which is joy0 in FSUIPC) --> Yoke

Before CHManager joystick 5(which is joy4 in FSUIPC) --> nothing

After loading CHManager joystick 1 (which is joy0 in FSUIPC) --> nothing

After loading CHManager joystick 5 (which is joy4 in FSUIPC) --> Yoke

Regards,

Marcel

[Pete Dowson]

The reason why I had assigned a joystick that doesn't exist is because that's the way CHManager works. I had first configured my controllers in FSUIPC without the CHManager running. Later I decided to try the CHManager software.

Ah, I see.

So to avoid any problems all folks should do is make up their minds whether to use CHM first, before assigning in FSUIPC. Then no problems would arise. Alternatively, simply delete the FSUIPC INI file and start again if you change to/from CHM?

I don't think CH themselves would be interested is "fixing" anything here, as they wouldn't regard it as a problem, surely?

This reminds me of the days of Game Ports. If you were using a Game Port joystick, then unplugged it but did not unassign it, there would be long delays whilst the Game Port driver timed out every single attempt to poll the device that isn't there!

USB is supposed to deal with all of these things tidily, but evidently the CH Manager hooking is wrecking that a bit.

Regards

Pete

[MvT]

So to avoid any problems all folks should do is make up their minds whether to use CHM first, before assigning in FSUIPC. Then no problems would arise. Alternatively, simply delete the FSUIPC INI file and start again if you change to/from CHM?

Yes, that will work fine.

I just tried on my Vista installation with CHManager V4.3, and it looks like CHManager rearrange the controllers random in Windows.

Before CHManager in joyview:

joy1 --> Gofight throttle

joy2 --> CH pedals

joy3 --> CH yoke

joy4 --> Saitek X45

After configuring CHManager:

joy1 --> Goflight throttle

joy2 --> CH yoke

joy3 --> CH pedals

joy4 --> Saitek X45

It swapped my CH yoke and CH pedals. This shouldn't give me problems when reassigning the controllers again because it overwrites the old assignments (although there will be some axis and buttons left because CH pedals don't have buttons), so it's highly recommended to delete the FSUIPC.ini file and start over again when you decided to use the CHManager. Then you won't have this problem.

I don't think CH themselves would be interested is "fixing" anything here, as they wouldn't regard it as a problem, surely?

Well, I have already send them an email yesterday, so maybe they can easily fix this in a new software release (although I now think it's a windows "problem"). They are always free to delete my email if they think ít's not something they can fix. After I send the email I found a link to the CH-hangar forum (wish I saw that earlier), so I'll see if I can find some more information about the way the CHManager software reassignment in Windows works.

Thanks for your time Pete. Now I know what the problem is, I don't have to be affraid it will happens again.

@Martin: Delete your FSUIPC.ini file and start assigning your controllers over again. I still think we had the same problem. Everything working fine with V4.262. This should solve your problems.

Regards,

Marcel

[Large Alvin]

As difficult as this problem is I probably can be no help. However try opening Msconfig from the run selection. Click START > RUN > type MSCONFIG > a window pops up. Click on startup (far right tab). Make a note of which items are checked, "normally everything is checked" then select disable all below. Don't worry you can re enable all later on or turn things on one at a time if you find that something in there is causing the problem. It's the old "divide and conquer" method.

Pete may offer some assistance on necessary check marks if there are any for his program and fsx, I really don't know. I do know that after rebooting many things are not loaded. It is not as extreme as Windows safe mode and it may fix your problem.

Reboot, acknowledge the diagnostic mode and see if fsx works. You might be missing sound but if your buttons start programming properly it might be a good start.

Good luck