steering tiller fsuipc

[kav1]

is it possible to set up tiller only no rudder surface movement with the joystick twist grip with fsuipc while taxing by perhaps the use of a key press to switch between that and the normal setup for takeoff and landing , flight etc? i just want a way of eliminating the rudder controll surfaces moving when steering on the ground with the tiller

Kav

[Pete Dowson]

is it possible to set up tiller only no rudder surface movement with the joystick twist grip with fsuipc while taxing by perhaps the use of a key press to switch between that and the normal setup for takeoff and landing , flight etc? i just want a way of eliminating the rudder controll surfaces moving when steering on the ground with the tiller

No, there's no way to do this with FS9 or before, or in FSX with FSUIPC's steering tiller, as it uses the rudder to do the steering. There's only a separate control supplied by FSUIPC so you can calibrate it for greater movement in a shorter space, varying with speed and gradually moving to the real rudder assignment as speed increases.

In FSX there is a steering tiller control added by Microsoft, and assignable (I think, never actually checked) in the FS assignments. If it isn't there it certainly should be found in the FSUIPC axis assignments drop down (for FS controls, not direct to FSUIPC). There's no FSUIPC calibration for this axis at present though, and I've never actually tried it to see if it moves the rudder surface -- it may still do in any case.

For me, it doesn't actually matter whether the rudder surface moves or not because I tend to steer from inside the cockpit, and I cannot see the rudder from there! I can see it might be a nuisance if you are using FS as a radio-controlled aircraft simulator, though. ;-)

Regards

Pete

[kav1]

thanks Pete for the reply

i too tend to steer from the flightdeck but the problem is as in real lfe the controll surface checks are often carried out during the taxi which means when you check the rudder movement you will also be steering the aircraft left and right in fsx which is not desirable. From what i can tell from videos i have, on the real flight deck of a 747 400 the pilot holds the tiller tight in position during the rudder checks with the foot pedals to prevent the nose wheel steering at the same time. This is of course not possible in the sim so i am restricted to carry out the rudder checks while the aircraft is stationary or miss out the rudder check during the taxi , I just wanted to find some way of getting around this

kav

[Pete Dowson]

i too tend to steer from the flightdeck but the problem is as in real lfe the controll surface checks are often carried out during the taxi which means when you check the rudder movement you will also be steering the aircraft left and right in fsx which is not desirable. From what i can tell from videos i have, on the real flight deck of a 747 400 the pilot holds the tiller tight in position during the rudder checks with the foot pedals to prevent the nose wheel steering at the same time. This is of course not possible in the sim so i am restricted to carry out the rudder checks while the aircraft is stationary or miss out the rudder check during the taxi , I just wanted to find some way of getting around this

Have you tried the built-in steering controls FSX provides? They are called Steering Inc, Steering Dec and Steering Set -- the latter is the Axis version. If you cannot assign them in FSX itself, you certainly can in FSUIPC drop-downs. I don't know whether they affect the rudder position or not, but I'd hope not. Whether holding it fixed (i.e. keeping writing 0 to it, or possibly two alternate values close to the intended value) would prevent the rudder steering seems unlikely though, but worth a try.

Regards

Pete

[philb737]

Hi There,

I'm trying to assign an axis for my home made tiller using FSUIPC axis assignment tab, but unfortunately FSUIPC dose not recognises the tiller axis. I'm using Phidgets 8/8/8 card and Alan's FS2Phidgets software to communicate with FSUIPC. I see the tiller move the rudder axis in FSX, and I can calibrate the tiller axis in FS2Phidgets software, but no joy in FSUIPC. What am I doing wrong?

I have the latest FSUIPC software Window XP PRO, SP3, FS2Phidgets 4.3.8 FSX with acceleration and SP1

Best regards,

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

I'm trying to assign an axis for my home made tiller using FSUIPC axis assignment tab, but unfortunately FSUIPC dose not recognises the tiller axis. I'm using Phidgets 8/8/8 card and Alan's FS2Phidgets software to communicate with FSUIPC. I see the tiller move the rudder axis in FSX, and I can calibrate the tiller axis in FS2Phidgets software, but no joy in FSUIPC. What am I doing wrong?

You see the tiller move the rudder in FSX? How is it assigned, then?

FSUIPC3 only sees the basic 6 original Windows joystick API axes, but the FSUIPC4 implementation uses DirectInput, like FS, and recognises all the axes that it supports (8 normal ones plus 4 point-of-view hats), so if FSX sees it then FSUIPC4 certainly should. Where are you looking?

I have the latest FSUIPC software Window XP PRO, SP3, FS2Phidgets 4.3.8 FSX with acceleration and SP1

What version number is this "latest FSUIPC software", please? The term "latest" is meaningless -- it means the latest you saw. I've had folks using a year old version thinking it was the latest. The version number is easy enough to find, please always use it.

Regards,

Pete

[philb737]

Hi Pete,

Thank you for a quick reply! I'm using FS2Phidgets software to connect my tiller to FSX, I can see that Phi Value and FS Value move to higher and lower numbers when tiller handle is rotated. The tiller is using Rudder control (Fs Var Assignment) to communicate with FSX. When I go to FSX to see the effect of the tiller in action, I notice a very minimal movement in the rudder to any direction. I tried to steer the plane using the tiller but the result was very disappointing due to lake of rudder control. I stand corrected, I'm not using the latest FSUIPC version, I think I'm a version behind I'm using FSUIPC 4.20. I appreciate any help.

Thank you again,

Phil

P.S. On another note, I just purchased WIDEFS7 for my home network, and can't wait to install WIDEFS7!!!

[philb737]

Just updated to FSUIPC4 Ver. 4.40.

[philb737]

Same problem as before! :(

[Pete Dowson]

Thank you for a quick reply! I'm using FS2Phidgets software to connect my tiller to FSX, I can see that Phi Value and FS Value move to higher and lower numbers when tiller handle is rotated. The tiller is using Rudder control (Fs Var Assignment) to communicate with FSX. When I go to FSX to see the effect of the tiller in action, I notice a very minimal movement in the rudder to any direction.

Sorry, but you'll need to explain some of that. It sounds like you are not using FSUIPC at all for this, so maybe that's the problem?

-- What are "Phi Values" and "FS Values"? Where are you seeing those?

-- When you say "using Rudder control (Fs Var Assignment) to communicate with FSX" what exactly does that mean?

None of these terms seem to relate to anything i provide for the steering tiller axis in FSUIPC, so I wonder why you are asking me the questions in the first place. Perhaps, if you could say EXACTLY what you are doing where, and exactly where you are seeing what, I might understand and be able to help.

Please don't tell me things in terms of what Phidgets software may or may not say. I don't know it and so it doesn't help. If you need help with that you'd need to talk to the authors/support folks for that.

If you want to use FSUIPC for a steering tiller axis you must assign both the tiller and the rudder axes in FSUIPC, selecting "direct to FSUIPC calibration", and then calibrate both. FSUIPC then uses the tiller axis to drive the FS rudder when on the ground and at airspeeds of less than 60 knots (an adjustable figure), and the rudder in the air and on the ground above 60 KIAS. Below the changeover speed control is divided proportionally between tiller and rudder, so that, for example, at 30 knots it is half-and-half.

Regards

Pete

[philb737]

You see the tiller move the rudder in FSX? How is it assigned, then?

I was answering your question to the above post.( FS2Phidget software is what I using to communicate with FSX) I do want FSUIPC to operate and calibrate my tiller axis, but FSUIPC dose not recognize my tiller as an axis.

I don't think that windows know that the Phidget card is a joystick? The reason why I'm using Phidgets is because of my real TQ.

[Pete Dowson]

I do want FSUIPC to operate and calibrate my tiller axis, but FSUIPC dose not recognize my tiller as an axis.

I don't think that windows know that the Phidget card is a joystick?

Aha, now we are getting to the truth of it. Are you saying that none of your axes are seen as axes by FS or by FSUIPC? How are you assigning them, then? How are you seeing that little rudder movement? Obviously I am still not understanding everything you are saying.

The Axis assignment facilities in FSUIPC are for DirectInput or Windows joystick axes -- axes that can be seen and assigned in Windows' programs. If your system is getting this information into FS in a different way, then the steering tiller assignment (or any other assignment) is not possible in FSUIPC's axis assignment facilities.

If you can access FSUIPC offsets through your system, and provided you can send a control value AND a parameter (the control value to identify the axis, the parameter for the axis readout), I could add a facility via offsets 3110 (command) and 3114 (parameter) to get axis values sent "direct to FSUIPC calibration". The command values would be something like 64000 - 64044 according to intended axis, and then you'd calibrate in FSUIPC as usual. You wouldn't use the Axis assignments facility, that would be bypassed.

This is not difficult to do, but it isn't implemented at present. If you think it can be your solution, let me know.

Regards

Pete

[philb737]

Hi Pete,

That's exactly what I want! Apparently windows operating systems dose not see the phidgets card 8/8/8 in particular as a joystick board. I think FS2Phidgets software is the bridge between Phidgets card and FSX and windows! I know for fact that FS2Phidgets software needs a registered copy of FSUIPC to be present for it to communicate with FSX. I appreciate any help to get the tiller working.

Cheers,

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

That's exactly what I want!

Before I start on yet more changes to FSUIPC (I need to wrap up the many amendments made in the last few weeks, ready for release), could you please first check and confirm that the Phidgets driver WILL allow an axis setting to be sent as either part of two 32-bit offset writes (3114 then 3110), or one 8-byte write to 3110-3117 inclusive.

If so, i will be glad to add the facility. If not then i really don't want to waste my time nor yours.

Let me know, please.

Regards

Pete

[philb737]

Pete,

I will get back to you soon as I have an answer for you.

[Pete Dowson]

I will get back to you soon as I have an answer for you.

I was investigating the solution I suggested that I might be able to implement when I stumbled across something already implemented in the current versions of both FSUIPC3 and FSUIPC4. This was a sepcial facility to allow my PFC and GA28R drivers to send axes direct to FSUIPC's calibration facilities. Being of, as I thought then, limited usefulness it was not documented in the FSUIPC SDK, but only in the PFC driver document. Here are the details:

• 
  Application program axis handling
  When using FSUIPC version 3.30 or later, application programs or modules can access the raw PFC axis values at offsets 3BA8 onwards. One 16-bit word is allowed for each (although currently all PFC axes have a maximum range of 0 to 127, this may change in future). The axes are:
  3BA8 0 Aileron
  3BAA 1 Elevator
  3BAC 2 Rudder
  3BAE 3 Quadrant axis 5
  3BB0 4 Quadrant axis 3
  3BB2 5 Quadrant axis 1
  3BB4 6 Left toe brake
  3BB6 7 Quadrant axis 6
  3BB8 8 Quadrant axis 4
  3BBA 9 Quadrant axis 2
  3BBC 10 Right toe brake
  3BBE 11 Elevator trim
  3BC0 12 Aileron trim
  3BC2 13 Rudder trim
  3BC4 14 Steering tiller
  3BC6 15 not used
  There are control flags (to disconnect these axes) at offset 3BC8. Each bit, 2^0 to 2^15 can be set to disconnect the equivalent numbered axis above. The cowl flap axes are not part of this facility.

Soplease try this: get your Phidgets software to send the Rudder value to 3BAC, and the Tiller value to 3BC4. Best to do both this way for better chance that the automatic switchover takes place based on airspeed and so on.

Let me kknow how you get on, please. If this is useful I might add the details to the regular offsets list.

Regards

Pete

[philb737]

Thank you Pete!!! :D :D I will try your suggestion and post my findings as soon as I'm back home.

Cheers

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

I will try your suggestion and post my findings as soon as I'm back home.

I don't know what sort of numbers your axes put out through Phidgets, but the way those offsets are currently wired up inside FSUIPC yu need to assign them in Axis assignments, to be send "direct" to fSUIPC calibration, then go calibrate.

However, it only accepts:

In RAW mode , range 0-65535, no negative values. Those would be treated as large positive ones.

Or with RAW mode not enabled, only 0-127 (this is the range PFC serial devices provide). This value is multiplied by 512 before being sent for calibration.

So, RAW mode is probably appropriate, unless you only get numbers 0-127 max.

I'm changing the code to accept negative numbers too -- -32768 to +32767, in RAW mode. The non-RAW will have to stay as it is for use with PFC devices. If you need this change please let me know which you need first -- FSUIPC3 or FSUIPC4.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

I'm changing the code to accept negative numbers too -- -32768 to +32767, in RAW mode. The non-RAW will have to stay as it is for use with PFC devices.

Okay. done and tested -- versions 3.873 and 4.437 contain this change, now in the Updates announcement.

Regards

Pete

[philb737]

Hi Pete,

I like to personally thank you for such a great software and support! FSUIPC, is the best thing that happened the FS and the sim community! As promised I followed your suggestion and my tiller is working as advertised. :D :D :D Now taxing on the ground is much easier and more realistic then before. Another, transformation to my joystick controllers is that I do not use FS to control or calibrate any of my axis, it's all done throughout FSUIPC now and its much easier to calibrate any joystick.Sky is the limit with FSUIPC!!!

Thank you again.

Phil

[Pete Dowson]

Hi Pete,

I like to personally thank you for such a great software and support! FSUIPC, is the best thing that happened the FS and the sim community! As promised I followed your suggestion and my tiller is working as advertised. :D :D :D Now taxing on the ground is much easier and more realistic then before. Another, transformation to my joystick controllers is that I do not use FS to control or calibrate any of my axis, it's all done throughout FSUIPC now and its much easier to calibrate any joystick.Sky is the limit with FSUIPC!!!

Good. Glad that all worked for you. I'll be adding the ex-PFC offset information to the Offsets documentation when I get around to the next SDK update.

Oh, please be sure to update from the version of FSUIPC to the very latest. Early this morning I fixed a serious bug which can corrupt your FSUIPC INI file!

Regards

Pete