Flaps calibration with specific detentes...

[Delvos]

Dear Pete... the last evening i spent some hours trying to calibrate my flaps with specific detentes with no success:-( . I'm using FS 9.1 with WinXP SP3, registered FSUIPC version 3.85 and the flaps should be moved with the right lever of my saitek tq (r-axis). First i removed the former axis assignment (elev. trim) and set the new axis assignment to 'Flaps' and 'Send direct to FSUIPC calibration' - so far so good:-)

Next i went to the 'Joystick calibration' tab and selected page 6, pressed the 'Reset'-button, 'Dt' & 'Cl' buttons and continued as described on pages 46-48 in the FSUIPC user guide. Everything worked as shown in the guide with one exception: after setting minimum and maximum positions, i continued with setting #1 flag; this worked - i pressed 'set' once at the beginning of the #1 range and once at the end of #1 range. Then i selected #2 on th spin control and moved the lever to the beginning of the #2 range and pressed 'set' once again, but the current range of my lever was not stored! This continued for all the other ranges...

After pressing OK i took a look at FSUIPC.INI and saw my changes; i saw FlapStarts and FlapEnds; the ranges for min, max and #1 seemed to be ok, but the other ranges were all the same! In FS i tested the flap lever; min and max were ok, #1 was reached - but not the other positions. I closed FS and entered the ranges in FSUIPC.INI manually and restarted FS, i opened FSUIPC and saw that all my settings were gone...

I made this test using FS default-737...

What's going wrong?

THX in advance...

Best regards,

[Pete Dowson]

Next i went to the 'Joystick calibration' tab and selected page 6, pressed the 'Reset'-button, 'Dt' & 'Cl' buttons and continued as described on pages 46-48 in the FSUIPC user guide. Everything worked as shown in the guide with one exception: after setting minimum and maximum positions, i continued with setting #1 flag; this worked - i pressed 'set' once at the beginning of the #1 range and once at the end of #1 range. Then i selected #2 on th spin control and moved the lever to the beginning of the #2 range and pressed 'set' once again, but the current range of my lever was not stored! This continued for all the other ranges...

This can only happen if the values are decreasing. Each successive detente must have a pair of values higher than the preceding pair.

Most axes need reversing before using as flaps, unless you want the lever working in the reverse direction to those in the aircraft. Are you sure you did this? You cannot set notch #2 with lower values than notch #1.

I closed FS and entered the ranges in FSUIPC.INI manually and restarted FS, i opened FSUIPC and saw that all my settings were gone...

It would do that if the values were impossible, but certainly not otherwise. Show me what you tried to set.

It does sound to me exactly as if you are trying to assign everything in reverse order, of values, which cannot be done. flap values must increase from up to down.

I've just tried exactly what you said you did here, but with the Rev option selection first, to get the orientation correct, and it works fine.

If you still cannot operate it, please show me the values -- the ones you tried to set manually sshould tell me where the misunderstanding lies.

BTW if you want to make editing changes in the INI file, for any of the Buttons, Keys, Axes or JoystickCalibration sections, you can do so without closing FS, and then just tell FSUIPC to reload that section -- there are Reload buttons for each.

Regards

Pete

[Delvos]

Hi Pete and thx for your fast reply... I'll try to describe a little more detailed what I did; mabe you're able to find out where I was mistaken:-)

-after the initial settings, FSUIPC shows me exactly the same as the image on pg 47 of the user guide, with three 'set' buttons...

-i moved my lever into the flaps up position and pressed 'set' under the left heading number (#0)...

-i moved my lever into the flaps down position and pressed 'set' under the right heading number (#2)...

-i moved my lever to the beginning of the flaps 1 range and pressed 'set' under center heading number (currently #1)...

-i moved my lever to the end of the flaps 1 range and pressed 'set' again under center heading number (currently #1)...

-incremented the spin control, so center heading number is now #2...

-i repeated the last three lines until center heading number #7 was done...

-finally i pressed 'OK'...

Maybe the problem is the reversing - i remember a positive value (16380?) on flap up and a negative value (-16380?) on flap down positions. If so, do i have to check 'Rev' before doing anything else?

Best regards,

[Pete Dowson]

-after the initial settings, FSUIPC shows me exactly the same as the image on pg 47 of the user guide, with three 'set' buttons...

-i moved my lever into the flaps up position and pressed 'set' under the left heading number (#0)...

-i moved my lever into the flaps down position and pressed 'set' under the right heading number (#2)...

-i moved my lever to the beginning of the flaps 1 range and pressed 'set' under center heading number (currently #1)...

-i moved my lever to the end of the flaps 1 range and pressed 'set' again under center heading number (currently #1)...

-incremented the spin control, so center heading number is now #2...

-i repeated the last three lines until center heading number #7 was done...

That's all very well, but it is the actual numbers which are important. That's all I need to see. FSUIPC will refuse to allow you to set impossible numbers -- i.e. numbers which make no sense in achieving what is needed.

Maybe the problem is the reversing - i remember a positive value (16380?) on flap up and a negative value (-16380?) on flap down positions.

That is totally the opposite of what will work! Flaps Up is the MINIMUM value for flaps. "Minimum" means the least value, and must be lower than all the other values. Similarly Flaps down is the Maximum value for flaps (it has a higher flap number, a higher angle, remember?).

With ANY axis, whether you set and calibrate in FS or in FSUIPC, you must ALWAYS first ensure that you have it going the right way! You CAN leave your Flaps going the wrong way if you wish, but then you have to remember to push away from you for more flaps, instead of towards you as in the real airplane.

Note that the spoilers/speed brake axis is also reversed. If you look at a throttle quadrant, the one for your default 737, you will see that when everything is "off" or at "minimum", the left and rightmost levers are both as far away from you (top most) as they can get, whilst throttles are nearest or at bottom. This alone should suggest that those outer two are reversed relative to the others, right?

If so, do i have to check 'Rev' before doing anything else?

Yes, of course. Clear everything (press Reset then Set is best) then select Rev, THEN do everything you did before.

Regards

Pete

[Delvos]

THX Pete! I'll check it out this evening and tell you:-)

Regards,

[Delvos]

Well Pete, now i tried to use reverse values - no success:-( The problem remains during setting the values... The FlapsUp position is now -16383 and the FlapsDown position is 16384. But - when adjusting the detent values - done as described before - the values stored in FSUIPC.INI are as follows:

FlapsSetControl=0

FlapDetents=Yes

Flaps=0,16380/16

FlapStarts=-16384,-13952,16381,16384,16384,16384,16384,16384,16384

FlapEnds=-16383,16380,16383,16383,16383,16383,16383,16383,16384

Note: when moving the flaps lever to the flaps-up position, flaps are moved to position #1 (not #0!); when moving the lever to flaps-down, the flaps are moved to the full flaps-down position - but moving the lever to the notches in between -> nothing happens!

Regards,

[Delvos]

Well Pete - it's done! But not in the usual way - i did everything as descrobed before, but afterwards i had to edit FSUIPC.INI manually and change the values of FlapStarts and FlapsEnds by hand! "Scanning" and pressing 'set' gave the same results, i send you in my last entry of this thread - heaven knows why...

After editing the wring values by hand, everything worked as desired...

Regrads,

[Pete Dowson]

Flaps=0,16380/16

FlapStarts=-16384,-13952,16381,16384,16384,16384,16384,16384,16384

FlapEnds=-16383,16380,16383,16383,16383,16383,16383,16383,16384[/quote

To get those figures you really must be doing something wrong. You need to tell me what the values read when you press the central "Set" button each time, because it is when you do that the value you see if the one which is recorded. There's no way it can do anything else. Press Set --> value seen --> remembered for that notch. Each pair is remembered, in order. It is so simple!

There's no way i can make it go wrong, and it has been working now, with no other reports of any problems, for over 2 and a half years, in both FSUIPC3 and FSUIPC4.

If you want me to work out what you are doing wrong you need to tell me the numbers showing in IN, OUT, MIN, Centre (both values), and MAX for each notch you set, before and after you press the SET (twice) each time.

It sounds very much like you are either pressing the wrong buttons or you are releasing or moving the lever before pressing rather than holding it in the notch positions.

Regards

Pete

[Delvos]

Good morning Pete... Well, concering the IN and OUT values - they seem to be correct, but when pressing the 'SET' buttons they only appear in the labels below the appropriate 'SET' button i pressed when i try to set the minimum/maximum values and flap #1 value. The other values for positions #2-#7 do not appear in the label below the center 'SET' button when the lever is moved and 'SET' was pressed... So i edited FSUIPC.INI manually while FSUIPC was opened, entered the IN values shown when calibrating the lever to FSUIPC.INI and pressed the 'Reload' button. Now i could see the manually entered values for all notches when scrolling with the trim wheel and - it worked!

Another strange phenomenon - i do not know if it is important in this case:-) - is: when i want to assign the axes of my TQ using the 'Axis Assignment' tab and f.e. try to assign my left lever, the 'Axis Assignment' always shows the values and settings of my middle or right lever. I have to rescan once or twice to get the correct axis! This concerns every lever on my TQ...

Note: the TQ axes are not assigned in FS itself, only in FSUIUPC!

Regards,

[Pete Dowson]

when pressing the 'SET' buttons they only appear in the labels below the appropriate 'SET' button i pressed when i try to set the minimum/maximum values and flap #1 value. The other values for positions #2-#7 do not appear in the label below the center 'SET' button when the lever is moved and 'SET' was pressed.

Assuming you do mean the "SET" button below the flap detente setting, i.e. the centre one, that's crazy. :-( I cannot see how it CANNOT copy the IN value to one of those two places (alternately) each time you press that Centre "SET" button. That is all that it does, it has no other finction except that!

I think i would have to stand behind you whilst you are doing this to see what you are doing wrong. This facility is really quite simple and very reliable, and has been in use now in both versions of FSUIPC for some time (30+ months, as I mentioned), with never any trouble.

Another strange phenomenon - i do not know if it is important in this case:-) - is: when i want to assign the axes of my TQ using the 'Axis Assignment' tab and f.e. try to assign my left lever, the 'Axis Assignment' always shows the values and settings of my middle or right lever. I have to rescan once or twice to get the correct axis! This concerns every lever on my TQ...

That's not strange. It is caused by fluttering or jittering values on the axes you are seeing most. The FSUIPC routine merely shows the first axis which it detects changing.

Wobbling values like that can be due to poor power supply (at the device, usually, so power from a USB port or hub), dirty pots, varying temperatures, moisture and so on. You can sometimes reduce or eliminate it by parking the axis at one extreme or the other, where the pot is less worn and the Windows driver makes a stable reading.

In order to help deal with axes which never go quiet the Axis assignment dialogue is equipped with an "Ignore" button, which you can use to (temporarily) ignore the axis shown.

If your Flaps axis is "spiking" (that is, not just fluctuating or jittering slightly, but actually occasionally sending extreme values, like your 16383) then that would more likely indicate a bad connection or dry joint and would be serious. Concievably this could be responsible for your flap setting problems, but I wouldn't expect it to be as consistent as you describe. You could test this by making a safe copy of your working FSUIPC.INI file, then removing the assignment of the flaps on the one you are using and then seeing if you can get the flap detentes set correctly using one of the other axes you are otherwise using and which don't appear to be jittering.

Oh, one other thing to double-check (I didn't think of it before as it seemed too obvious -- but you never know), do go through all the assignments and make sure NO OTHER AXIS is assigned to Flaps, whether via FSUIPC or FSX.

Regards

Pete