SIMCONNECT WILL NOT REMOVE FROM VISTA 64

[jerglen]

I have used your suggestions in FSX HELP to no avail and elevated privileges do not help. I am now working with my third party vendor of the Vista 64 Program. His suggestions do not work either. He is now prepared to work with Microsoft on the problem. After a review of your forum, it seems that I am the only person who cannot remove the simconnects. Do you know of any others with the same problems and if so, was a solution found.

Thank you for your time.

Jerry

[Pete Dowson]

I have used your suggestions in FSX HELP to no avail and elevated privileges do not help. I am now working with my third party vendor of the Vista 64 Program. His suggestions do not work either. He is now prepared to work with Microsoft on the problem. After a review of your forum, it seems that I am the only person who cannot remove the simconnects. Do you know of any others with the same problems and if so, was a solution found.

About the closest to success (and maybe real success) is this thread

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=73255

I was hoping someone with more knowledge and practice at this would write down the exact instructions for doing all this without getting into trouble, then I would add it to the Help announcement. So, if you do achieve it please consider writing back to me exactly how.

Thanks,

Pete

[jerglen]

Pete

Thanks for the reply. As usual I did not make myself clear enough. Microsoft rep wants to know if I am the only person that has this problem or if you have many complaints, besides me. The rep thinks that I am an isolated problem and I need to show him that many users of Vista, FSX, and FSUIPC have had problems. Can y ou help?

Jerry

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for the reply. As usual I did not make myself clear enough. Microsoft rep wants to know if I am the only person that has this problem or if you have many complaints, besides me. The rep thinks that I am an isolated problem and I need to show him that many users of Vista, FSX, and FSUIPC have had problems.

There have been a few. Maybe two or three a month coming through this Forum, so FSUIPC4 related. I've seen the same for other applications on other Forums. Which is a point:

When the problems with SimConnect occur they affect all SimConnect applications, so I'm not sure why FSUIPC should be singled out -- though it is probably the most-installed SimConnect using application and has been around the longest (since the day of FSX's release, or before for Beta testers).

Quite honestly I've no idea why some folks have these problems. I do get the impression (but have no proof) that attempting to uninstall and reinstall FSX is likely to create them. Some folks have also suggested that there is some interaction between .Net installers and SimConnect's installer which gets the latter messed up.

I currently have five FSX installations -- two on XP32, one on Vista32 and two on Vista64, and have never been able to reproduce any of the SimConnect problems folks have reported -- not even once. So I find it very difficult to advise. I also don't really understand Vista's over-complex file and folder permissions system, nor the weird Side-by-Side library system.

This last, the WinSxS system, sounds like a good idea but it seems to have been implemented in the most difficult and confusing way. The worst problem it produces is that, whilst installers seem normally to be able to install Side-by-Side libraries okay, no uninstallers seem ever to be able to uninstall them. And that where the problems, when they do occur, become worse. If you cannot uninstall something, the re-install won't work, so repairing a broken library setup doesn't work.

One of my contacts in Microsoft (the SimConnect prime author) did start on making a program to check all this stuff and auto-repair it when broken, but pressure of work in other areas forced him to stop. I don't know enough about it to do it, but someone needs to. Not just for SimConnect, but for any WinSxS library setup.

If you need numbers specifically for FSUIPC4 I can only suggest you do a search through this Forum. Search on words like "WinSxS". Count the number of different visitor names contributing. But you may also wish to post on other Forums (e.g. the nearby FSX Forum) for a general consensus, not specifically FSUIPC4-oriented.

I've also asked folks who get these problems to report them via tell_fs@microsoft.com, so there must be a good database inside MS HQ somewhere. Doesn't your MS Tech Support contact have any contact with the place those go to?

Regards

Pete

[jerglen]

It looks like our problems with simconnect will continue. With the closure of Aces Studios MSFSX will have no support. That explains why the Microsoft Representative never had an answer. Even though we believe that it is a Vista problem and not an FSX problem, it is will not be corrected. There is still format and rebuild, unless someone else has a better answer.

Jerry

[Pete Dowson]

It looks like our problems with simconnect will continue. With the closure of Aces Studios MSFSX will have no support. That explains why the Microsoft Representative never had an answer. Even though we believe that it is a Vista problem and not an FSX problem, it is will not be corrected.

Maybe the side-by-side library system will be better behaved in Windows 7? Let's hope so. I'll be installing the 64-bit version of "Windows 7 Ultimate" Beta within the next week or so, to see what benefits it might provide for FSX performance -- I've heard only good things so far! But I don't think I want to try uninstalling FSX/SimConnect just to see if it gives me the same pains! I'll leave that till forced to uninstall the Beta because of expiry.

Regards

Pete

[leostr]

Hi Jerry,

I too had innumerable problems getting Simconnect SP2 and Vista x64 to work together. The problem initially cropped up with a problem loading PMDG's MD11 - FSUIPC was the only addon that didn't have an issue, that would load and display its menu every time. I tried reinstalling Windows & FSX, all to no avail, every time, it seemed, Simconnect would not work (I checked the Event log, and that was full of simconnect.dll not found in the WinSxS folder, despite it being there). I think there is a lot of discussion about whether or not you should even play around with the content of WinSxS - one of the posts at FSInsider suggested that they should not be touched, as it would bork any future reinstall or even clean install.

Anyhow, I finally figured out what the issue was stopping Simconnect.dll. It turns out (and it seemed to be specific to SP2/Acceleration version) that having my \Documents folder anywhere other than the default, C:\users\%username%\Documents would stop it from working - I'd previously kept Documents on a separate partition, pointing the documents folder to that, and for some reason, simconnect doesn't like looking elsewhere other than the default.

Paul Gollnick over at PMDG did say he'd let someone over at ACES know, but I guess with recent news, that bug (if indeed it is a bug), is unlikely to see much happen.

Don't know if that's anything related to your problem, but it may help.

Leo

[Pete Dowson]

I checked the Event log, and that was full of simconnect.dll not found in the WinSxS folder, despite it being there

The way FSUIPC links to SimConnect dynamically can produce such entries in the Event log. they are not real errors but results of FSUIPC probing for versions of SimConnect you don't have installed. There's a write-up about this in the FSUIPC User Guide. According to Microsoft there's no way of suppressing these, so i had to document them instead.

Anyhow, I finally figured out what the issue was stopping Simconnect.dll. It turns out (and it seemed to be specific to SP2/Acceleration version) that having my \Documents folder anywhere other than the default, C:\users\%username%\Documents would stop it from working

Hmmm. Maybe that's true on Vista, though I don't understand why. On my XP system my "My documents" folder is on my I: drive, whilst Windows is on C: as usual.

Regards

Pete

[jerglen]

I have never moved my documents folder. It is still located under user---. My problem with simconnect corruption has always started when FSX does not want to run properly. If I remember right, one time it just would not start. The other two times, I don't remember. In all three times, I tried repair with no luck so I removed and replaced. That was when I found out that FSUIPC did not work. The simconnects were then corrupted. They probably were already corrupted. At any rate, remove and replace did not remove or repair them. This has happened several times with WIN XP, but they can manually be removed and then reinstalled with FSX.

Pete, I have been using the Windows 7 beta for about a week or more. The first thing that I tried was removing the simconnects and they do not come out. I then sent my report to Microsoft but I do not think I will ever get a reply.

Hope you all have a nice day

Jerry

[Pete Dowson]

I have been using the Windows 7 beta for about a week or more. The first thing that I tried was removing the simconnects and they do not come out.

You have SimConnect problems already with a fresh install of Windows 7 and FSX? How come?

Anyway, Windows 7 will be like vista. You cannot alter things in system folders like WnSxS without changing permissions.

Regards

Pete

[jerglen]

PETE

No, I do not have simconnect problems yet with Windows 7. After I had Windows 7 set up and FSX installed, I wanted to know if the problem was fixed. I found the simconnects and tried to delete them. No luck.

This problem also extends to other programs, not just FSX. Yesterday in Vista 64, I installed Ultimate Defrag which says it is compatible with Vista. It would not work with Vista 64. So, I used Ultimate Defrag's own uninstaller. Things did not go well and it did not fully uninstall. I tried to delete the left over entries and got the same results as trying to delete simconnects. So the problem lies with UAC in Vista 64 and Windows 7 64.

I hope the problem gets fixed since removing programs is going to leave a lot of trash on our hard drives.

Jerry

[leostr]

Jerry,

Are you running the simconnect diagnostic output? Could be helpful. Take a look at the SDK documentation if you don't have it set up yet. That helped me figure out my problems weren't with the pmdg modules, but simconnect.

That said, given that you've got problems with other s/w, the problem may well be more OS - I'm happily running FSX and FS9 in Vista64 now, and can promise you that once its up and running, its rock solid. I'd leave the SxS folder well alone though, tempting though it may be to delete the simconnects in there, I believe that it just creates more problems than it (apparently) solves. As Pete says, you can't change things in the folder without changing the permissions in a very roundabout sort of way - credit where its due to MS - they've made it so very difficult for the end user to break ! There's an interesting (well to me) blog over at MSDN that gives you a bit more of an insight into what SxS does - http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2008/1pace.aspx; anyhow, I think I am running OT here..

I agree, UAC (though vastly improved in Win7 over Vista) is a royal pain. Its the first thing I do when installing W7/Vista - switch off UAC completely. If you know what you're doing, it shouldn't be too much of a risk (in the ten years I've been maintaining PC's on my network, only once have I ever had a compromised machine, and that was the handiwork of another user..). See what happens if you temporarily switch it off while you (re)install FSX - I would also suggest right click the setup and Run as Administrator..

[mffly]

I'm not sure if this is on-topic, or not...

I'm running Vista 64, FSX sp2 (not acceleration pack), FSUIPC 4.40

Prior to reinstalling FSX about a month ago, FSUIPC worked fine. I believe I originally installed FSUIPC in order to see the demo of "FSFlyingSChool", which I only used for a day, or two, but FSUIPC continued running with no problems. The thing is, FSUIPC must have been pre 4.40, as I'm quite sure it was installed prior to Nov, 18 (FSUIPC 4.40 release).

About a month ago I installed a free airplane and it broke FSX... started getting the APPCRASH screen. Reinstalling from the DVDs did nothing, so I carefully uninstalled FSX and then reinstalled, first from DVDs, then sp1, and then sp2. While I was at it, I decided to download the latest FSUIPC (4.40) and install it. The first thing I noticed was that FSUIPC was causing FSX to crash. Of course I would have tried installing the pre 4.40 version of FSUIPC, but I no longer had it. I reinstalled FSUIPC 4.40 a couple of times, and finally gave up, disabling FSUIPC in the xm.dll file.

Since then, I have installed two Simconnect products (CumulusX and Sim Probe), and also the software SDK, mostly for the simobject placement tool. FSX, including the new installs have all worked great.

Now I'm trying to FSUIPC to work again, as I've installed a gauge that relies on it. Of course, FSUIPC still crashes FSX, but this is what (I think) I've learned:

The APPCRASH "module name" is always "API.DLL". It *only* crashes when attempting to load a new airplane, .flt file, or .pln file, but not always... I'd say there's about a 70% chance it will crash while loading one of these files, but there's no rhyme or reason to it... if I'm lucky enough to load the aircraft that uses the gauge that requires FSUIPC, without crashing FSX, it'll work fine. It doesn't matter whether CumulusX and Sim Probe are running. I've spent a long time trying to figure out what type files make it crash, or not, and can find no correlation. Once again, it only crashes when attempting to change aircrafts, load a .flt file, or load a .pln file.

Peter, I appreciate all you've done in FSUIPC. Sorry for being long-winded, but did so in hopes it will help you, or someone, figure this out. Even though you've said it shouldn't matter, I'd love to try a pre 4.40 release, just to be sure. I'll be glad to work with you, and others, anyway I can...I'll try any reasonable suggestion. Let's get this figured out! :)

Thank you,

Hal Williams

[Pete Dowson]

The first thing I noticed was that FSUIPC was causing FSX to crash.

How do you know this? FSUIPC4, merely installed, does almost nothing. It sits there waiting to be used. In almost 100% of such cases, where things go wrong with FSUIPC installed and not without, it comes down to something using FSUIPC or setting it to use bad data.

Perhaps you will kindly list all of the add-ons which you are running with FSX. Let's then go through a process of elimination to see which might be the crucial factor. Also remember to start by removing or deleting your FSUIPC4.INI file, so we know it isn't anything to do with assignments or other user settings.

The APPCRASH "module name" is always "API.DLL".

And this is what points you to FSUIPC4? How?

Peter, I appreciate all you've done in FSUIPC. Sorry for being long-winded, but did so in hopes it will help you, or someone, figure this out.

Well, you could start by justifying your assumptions, please. I'd like to know how you arrived at FSUIPC4 being your culprit.

Even though you've said it shouldn't matter, I'd love to try a pre 4.40 release, just to be sure.

No, why not instead please first try the latest Interim version from the Updates Announcement above? There have been 20 or 30 new versions since 4.40 and there's no point in trying to delve into it or anything earlier.

When you've done that, please find the FSUIPC4.LOG file, which is produced explicitly to show what FSUIPC is doing, and show that to me, leading up to the crash.

Pete

[mffly]

Sorry Pete, I had googled for later FSCUPC versions and missed it. I'm brand new to this form, stumbled across this post first and just missed the "interim updates" post in this form.

I deleted the FSUIPC4.ini and installed FSUIP4428. Still causing the APPCRASH.

Apparently I didn't say what you wanted in the previous post, but I tried to give as much info as possible without making the post any longer than it had to be. As I said in the previous post, the only two addons I've got are CumulusX and Sim Probe which are both Simconnect, .exe apps and can be started after FSX begins running (or not). The APPCRASH 100% of the time has occured while FSUIPC is running, regardless of whether FSX is running stand alone of with the two mentioned addons, but not a single time when FSUIPC is not running, with or without, the addons. This is the reason I've "arrived at FSUIPC4 being the culprit".

Honestly, Pete, I believe you missed the point of my whole post... I was actually trying to help you, as much as wanting you to help me. I've made my living since 1981 developing and supporting device drivers and accounting apps in Unix, Linux, and Windows, and have never been as defensive or quite as sure as you seem to be that my software always worked.

I apologize if you believe I wasted your time in the first post and I still appreciate everything you've done with FSUIPC and hope to get this current version, or some future version working on my Vista 64. But if you don't mind Pete, I'd prefer that you not respond to this and that we both just move on.

Thank you,

Hal Williams

[Pete Dowson]

As I said in the previous post, the only two addons I've got are CumulusX and Sim Probe which are both Simconnect, .exe apps and can be started after FSX begins running (or not). The APPCRASH 100% of the time has occured while FSUIPC is running, regardless of whether FSX is running stand alone of with the two mentioned addons, but not a single time when FSUIPC is not running, with or without, the addons. This is the reason I've "arrived at FSUIPC4 being the culprit".

Okay. Then something is obviously different on your system, as there are no other reports of any crashes caused by FSUIPC4 whatsoever, and you are not actually using it in any way when it appears to cause this crash. You really have no add-on aircraft at all, no add-on scenery?

As well as the FSUIPC4.LOG file I asked for (that would be the most useful in the first instance), could you please also find the DLL.XML and EXE.XML files, from the same folder as your FSX.CFG file, and show them to me? Also, please look at the "FSX Help" announcement above and follow the instructions for obtaining a SimConnect log. Show me that too, please.

If you cannot find any of the files I ask for, look first in the FSX "Modules" folder, and show me the Install log file. That will contain information on the paths to the files needed.

Honestly, Pete, I believe you missed the point of my whole post... I was actually trying to help you, as much as wanting you to help me.

Sorry you got that impression, but I really did not misunderstand. It was only the assumption that is "must be FSUIPC crashing my system" which I felt you should have justified.

Believe it or not, but because FSUIPC is probably the single most prevalent add-on on all FS systems, it is always the first to get the blame for when things go wrong. Sometimes it has been, but such occasions really have been very rare. It is even more unlikely on FSX because, instead of hacking into FSX code to do its job, it is almost 100% reliant on the SimConnect interface.

Because it is the first to be blamed, my first reaction is ALWAYS to ask "how do you arrive at such a conclusion?" If I did not do this, and elicit as much information as possible, I would be spending all my time debugging other people's programs or system problems.

But if you don't mind Pete, I'd prefer that you not respond to this and that we both just move on.

So you refuse to even show me the log as I asked? What is the problem? I think you must be interpreting my responses in a very strange way! :-(

Please reconsider ...

Regards

Pete