GoFlight P8 / Fire/C&W?

[mattriggins]

Peter,

I have a GoFlight GF-P8 and I had a thought about using two of it's buttons/LEDs for Fire/Caution and Warning. Obvious it's not perfect but for my current budget (Hey, I just bought WideFS!!) its the only option for now.

So, I started looking up offsets, etc. I own the PM Boeing GC/MCP/CDU. I found PM Offset 04FE, bits 2 and 3. I found offset 5530, and Offset 5540. I'd assume you'd have to have a bit for the button AND the LED?

Besides that, I believe that for ANY of these offsets to even be considered, they are all passed through pm systems, is that correct?

IF so... do you have any thoughts on if I (purchased) pm systems, I COULD get the GoFlight P8 to work for Fire/CW? IE, Leds above the button would lite up, press button and they go out. I more then likely would not be able to purchase pmsystems at this time, but for future reference, I wanted your input on this.

OR... do you feel there IS a possible way to make the GoFlight P8 work for a Fire/CW system without pmsystems?

Your expertise is always appreciated!!

Thanks!

Matt Riggins

[Pete Dowson]

So, I started looking up offsets, etc. I own the PM Boeing GC/MCP/CDU. I found PM Offset 04FE, bits 2 and 3. I found offset 5530, and Offset 5540. I'd assume you'd have to have a bit for the button AND the LED?

You are asking the wrong person. Project Magenta offsets are assigned by, updated by, read by, Project Magenta. Most of those concerning subsystems not implemented in FS are dealt with by pmSystems, which you do not mention you have.

Besides that, I believe that for ANY of these offsets to even be considered, they are all passed through pm systems, is that correct?

Yes, though I think the button operations and some of the LEDs are also dealt with by the PM MCP for some of the MCP attachments it handles directly and which include the 6-packs, such as the PFC MCP + EFIS + 6pack combo.

IF so... do you have any thoughts on if I (purchased) pm systems, I COULD get the GoFlight P8 to work for Fire/CW? IE, Leds above the button would lite up, press button and they go out. I more then likely would not be able to purchase pmsystems at this time, but for future reference, I wanted your input on this.

With pmSystems you can do almost any subsystem logic, as most of it is controlled by text logic files. However, it does not drive GoFlight directly. You'd still need to program the GoFlight buttons to act of the offsets via FSUIPC, and use GFdisplay to get bit settings in offsets operating the LED indicators.

However, I am not a PM expert, only a user. Your questions should really be directed to PM Support, or at least asked on the PM Forum in mycockpits:

http://www.mycockpit.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=884

You might also be interested in Thomas Richter's work -- see the TSR website http://www.technical-service-richter.com/

OR... do you feel there IS a possible way to make the GoFlight P8 work for a Fire/CW system without pmsystems?

You could certainly program the logic yourself, using the user-allocated offsets 66C0-66FF. It would all certainly be possible via, for example, a Lua plug-in to FSUIPC.

Regards

Pete

[mattriggins]

Thanks for your very helpful info Peter! I didn't even see GFDisplay down there in your list of apps. I'll start to tackle that.

One thing that is working for the moment in regards to a button press. It appears FS has no FS Commands for pressing the C/W button for a default craft. If I'm wrong and missed it, please let me know.

That being said, and being an owner of Pilot in Command 737, I found in their panel setup utility the ability to program a keyboard command for turning off (their) C/W light. I set that keyboard command, deleted that same keyboard command in the FS key assignments. Then in FSUIPC, pressed my goflight button and set it for a key press using the same command. That of course does work and lets me turn off the CW light (in the PIC 737 panel) via the goflight button.

Now, to figure out using GF Display how to get the LED above the button on the GF P8 to lite up when the CW comes on :)

Thanks again!

[Pete Dowson]

It appears FS has no FS Commands for pressing the C/W button for a default craft. If I'm wrong and missed it, please let me know.

FS doesn't really simulate the six-pack stuff or the fire/caution stuff except vaguely with code local to gauges.

Regards

Pete

[mattriggins]

Pete: Ignore the initial post below the slashes.I think I have this figured out.

I'm basically going to have to run

pmsystems

fsuipc

widefs

GFDisplay

While FSUIPC deals with the buttons, etc. GFDisplay drives the LEDs on and off.

So, for now, I have programmed FSUIPC for the GF button to:

On button press, send offset 56F8 bit 1, to tell pmsystems (demo) that the CW button was pressed. On button release, send offset 5530 bit 0 to turn off the light.

Obviously I still have to tell GFDisplay what and where to send the offset/bit information also, am I correct on that?

Correct me if I'm wrong but a LOT is happening here at once if I'm not mistaken:

pmsystems says caution light comes on. then pmsystems has to communicate over WideFS to GFDisplay running on the FS computer to turn on the LED, which is specificed in the GFDisplay ini file. That gets the GF LED on.

Then, when I press the GF button below the LED, FSUIPC on the FS computer is seeing that, sending offset 56F8.1 to pmsystems over WideFS and pmsystems says ok the recall button was pressed.

Then, when I release the GF button below the LED, FSUICP on the FS computer is seeing that, sending offset 5530.0 to pmsystem over WideFS and pmsystems then turns off the caution light.

Finally, pmsystems over WideFS talks to GFDisplay on the FS computer and sends the offset/bit to have GFDisplay turn off the LED.

Is that about right?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah too bad they don't simulate these things. Well it keeps you in business!

So at this point, I've got GFDisplay running. I'm learning how the ini file works. Eventually I'll find the bit that turns the GoFlight LED on and Off. Of course, to your genius its easy. And you conveniently left out P8 information to make me have to learn this? How dare you!! (just kidding)

Natrually I can program a button to do something in FSUIPC, but I can't program FSUIPC to automatically turn that LED on and off because there is no logic, correct?

So, I get pmsystems, which is running the logic and says ok, the caution lite comes on. Does FSUIPC look at pmsystems, and say oh I have an offset and a bit to turn an LED on, and then sends that to the GoFlight LED (using the offset/bit infomation provided by GFDisplay) to turn on the right LED? Or, is it pmsystems that sends the offset/bit to the LED in the GoFlight module? My final question is, if it's FUSIPC that would send that information to the LED, where do you program that at? (To look for logic from pmsystems then act upon it, or, do I have the meachnis wrong?I just want to understand how these two fantastic pieces of software talk to each other, which will bring down the level of my confusion later on.

I setup the goflight button to offset 56F8.1, and upon release 5530.0. That works for telling pmsystems I've pressed the button, and it turns off the light in pmsystem. I'm currently using the pm instructor to initiate engine failures so I can get the caution light to come on.

I'm still just unclear what program (pmsystems, or FSUIPC) would turn the LED on and off. To me it would (now) make sense that pmsystems was doing it. If thats the case, I'd have to figure out where (the ini file?) in pmsystems you'd put the offset/bit information (from GFDisplay?) to be able to turn on/off the correct LED.

Or have I got it all half *** backwards? heh

Thanks Pete as always.

Matt Riggins

[Pete Dowson]

Obviously I still have to tell GFDisplay what and where to send the offset/bit information also, am I correct on that?

Well, tell it which offset/bit to use to light or extinguish the LED, yes. All GFDisplay does is allow you to operate the LEDs and other GF displays using offset data.

pmsystems says caution light comes on. then pmsystems has to communicate over WideFS to GFDisplay running on the FS computer to turn on the LED, which is specificed in the GFDisplay ini file. That gets the GF LED on.

Yes, with FSUIPC offsets in the middle there. Also, bear in mind that the GF units and the GFdisplay program don't need to be on the FS PC -- you can connect your GF T8/P8 units to whichever client PC you like.

Then, when I press the GF button below the LED, FSUIPC on the FS computer is seeing that, sending offset 56F8.1 to pmsystems over WideFS and pmsystems says ok the recall button was pressed.

Without browsing through pmSystems logic I can only assume you are correct. Presumably you've gleaned that from the pmSystems files? You need to make sure you are using the pmSystems .lgc and .txt files which are relevant to your needs. I wouldn't be sure they all supported this logic -- the 737 set certainly does.

Then, when I release the GF button below the LED, FSUICP on the FS computer is seeing that, sending offset 5530.0 to pmsystem over WideFS and pmsystems then turns off the caution light.

Hmmm. You are using one button for recall and Master Caution? Bear in mind that, at least on the 737, I think the system operates like this:

1. The M/C light is lit whenever there are annunciator conditions for the six pack

2. When pressed, the MC button clears the 6-pack indicators, but the M/C led stays lit if there are still conditions outstanding.

3. The recall is actually a button behind the 6 pack displays -- you press the six pack itself and the leds relevant to the current conditions are re-displayed.

4. The M/C light only extinguishes when there are no outstanding conditions warranting it being lit.

In my cockpit I don't have a recall button behind the six-pack, so I devised a system where a single press of the M/C button means M/C pressed, and a double-click means Recall. But this really needs programming, not simple assignments. If you have two buttons you are ok.

Maybe you are doing this for a cockpit which operates differently.

So at this point, I've got GFDisplay running. I'm learning how the ini file works. Eventually I'll find the bit that turns the GoFlight LED on and Off. Of course, to your genius its easy. And you conveniently left out P8 information to make me have to learn this? How dare you!! (just kidding)

The P8 and T8 units merely contain the simpler parts of those I have given examples for. For LEDs just look at the examples with lines beginning with "L".

For the M/C LED it is easy, as you simply want one line which tells it which bit in which offset drives that LED, in the form:

Ln=Xxxxx U16 Mmmmm

where n is the LED number, xxxx is the Offset, and mmmm is a mask to isolate the relevant bit -- e.g 0001 for bit 0, 0800 for bit 11, etc.

If all of your LEDs are lit by bits from pmSystems, then they will all be dealt with in the same way. If you have the 12 six-pack indicators they all have bits in offset 5530.

Natrually I can program a button to do something in FSUIPC, but I can't program FSUIPC to automatically turn that LED on and off because there is no logic, correct?

No, not correct. pmSystems has the logic. The reason FSUIPC can't light your LEDs is because it contains no display facilities at all -- they are in GFdisplay.

So, I get pmsystems, which is running the logic and says ok, the caution lite comes on.

It only comes on if you've told it to, using the appropriate line in GFdisplay. pmSystems does NOT directly drive GoFlight units, as I've said already I think.

Does FSUIPC look at pmsystems, and say oh I have an offset and a bit to turn an LED on

No, not at all. FSUIPC is absolutely passive in this. FSUIPC hasn't the foggiest idea what any of these programs are doing. It is just the vehicle for these offset values. pmSystems writes values, other programs, like GFdisplay read them. The whole of the PM suite operates like that. It is all completely independent of FSUIPC itself, that is only the postbox.

and then sends that to the GoFlight LED (using the offset/bit infomation provided by GFDisplay) to turn on the right LED? Or, is it pmsystems that sends the offset/bit to the LED in the GoFlight module?

pmSystems doesn't know anything about GoFlight. This is why you are using GFdisplay!!

I setup the goflight button to offset 56F8.1, and upon release 5530.0. That works for telling pmsystems I've pressed the button, and it turns off the light in pmsystem. I'm currently using the pm instructor to initiate engine failures so I can get the caution light to come on.

The caution light comes on for many reasons, including Doors Open, Piot Heat / Window Heat not on, Yaw damper not on, Fuel pressure low, Hydraulic pumps not on, etc etc. When you first switch on the battery from cold and dark, about 6 or 7 of the 2 6-packs with be lit and the M/C light will not go out till all the conditions are cleared.

I'm still just unclear what program (pmsystems, or FSUIPC) would turn the LED on and off.

Neither. GFdisplay is provided for that. That is why I wrote it!

To me it would (now) make sense that pmsystems was doing it.

I agree. pmSystems does drive some hardware (or rather, is driven by it), but those GF units are general purpose -- there's no way pmSystems could be pre-programmed for all possible uses of the assorted units GF sell. This is where GFdisplay comes in, for the LEDs. FSUIPC is perfectly cabable of dealing with the switch inputs.

BTW I'm off on holiday on Friday, so I may not be around to help you much more. Have you contacted Thomas Richter -- he's the pSystems expert. A very nice helpful person!

Regards

Pete