Aerosoft EGLC and Makrwys

[BG]

I'm a user of Dave March's PFE which uses Makerwys to update its database. After installing Aerosoft's EGLC for FSX I found that the update process for PFE excluded this scenery. Having contacted Dave we think the issue lies with the way in which the Aerosoft bgls are installed in FSX which causes Makerwys a problem when scanning files.

Dave's possible explanation is set out below - it is a bit long, I'm afraid, but outlines the problem far better than I could -

*************************************************************************************************************************

Now, the issue is EGLC is actually missing from all the relevant MakeRwy files you sent me for some reason. But my guess is this.... The way I believe the program works is it scans the scenery.cfg file and processes each scenery item as it finds it. Assuming that should it find a duplicate that any previous entries for the same airport can be dropped and the subsequent entries retained for the final file creation.

So, according to your runways.txt file it finds the default EGLC as indicated here:-

Airport EGLC N51:30:18.9957 E000:03:18.9995 19ft

City Name="London"

Airport Name="London City"

in file: Scenery\0601\scenery\APX48130.bgl

It then continues and further down the list it finds the new Aerosoft EGLS as indicated here:-

=============================================================================

Area.159 "London City Airport X)" (Layer=157)

Local=Aerosoft\London City Airport X

=============================================================================

Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_ADE_BR.BGL

=============================================================================

Airport EGLC N51:30:18.9957 E000:03:18.9995 20ft

City Name="London"

Airport Name="London City"

in file: Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_ADE_BR.BGL

Delete all taxiways!

Delete all runways and starts!

Delete all taxiways!

COM: Delete all frequencies!

If you notice the DELETE entries which is where I believe it removes the previous entries read into its internal tables. Normally this works just fine, because most of us have added replacement airport sceneries, etc. But further scanning of the runways.txt files finds further entries for EGLC as shown below:-

=============================================================================

Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_ADE_BR_CVX.bgl

=============================================================================

=============================================================================

Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_buildings.bgl

=============================================================================

=============================================================================

Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_exclude.bgl

=============================================================================

Airport EGLC N51:30:18.9957 E000:03:18.9995 19ft

City Name="London"

Airport Name="London City"

in file: Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_exclude.bgl

Delete all taxiways!

Delete all runways and starts!

Delete all taxiways!

COM: Delete all frequencies!

Taxiname: #0 =

FSM A/P EGLC, lat=51.505280, long=0.055278, alt=19

=============================================================================

Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_lights.bgl

=============================================================================

=============================================================================

Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_platform.bgl

=============================================================================

=============================================================================

Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_signs.bgl

=============================================================================

=============================================================================

Aerosoft\London City Airport X\scenery\EGLC_stuff.BGL

=============================================================================

As you can see in the above example the entries marked for deletion, which I assume to be the last entries read for EGLC.

Now this is purely guess work on my part as I have no idea how MakeRwys actually works .

**********************************************************************************************************************

Perhaps this is something which could be looked at and, if necessary, changed could be made to Makerwys.

Bernard Greenbank

[BG]

Quick follow up. I removed the exclude bgl from the Aerosoft scenery and ran Makerwys. This time there was no duplication of EGLC in Runways.txt and all seemed well. However after the subsequent PFE update, no taxiway data was available in PFE.

Bernard Greenbank

[Pete Dowson]

I'm a user of Dave March's PFE which uses Makerwys to update its database. After installing Aerosoft's EGLC for FSX I found that the update process for PFE excluded this scenery. Having contacted Dave we think the issue lies with the way in which the Aerosoft bgls are installed in FSX which causes Makerwys a problem when scanning files.

If it causes MakeRunways a problem, it would also cause FSX a problem, as both a scanning in the same order and obeying the same instructions.

If you notice the DELETE entries which is where I believe it removes the previous entries read into its internal tables. Normally this works just fine, because most of us have added replacement airport sceneries, etc. But further scanning of the runways.txt files finds further entries for EGLC as shown below:-

If these entries are all there are, i.e. all deletes but no new runway details, then MakeRunways is correct in not including the runways, as they've been correctly deleted.

Perhaps this is something which could be looked at and, if necessary, changed could be made to Makerwys.

I cannot get MakeRunways to add runways without any information about them! I think you have an AFD file missing!

Please show me the folder listing for the Scenery folder of the installed EGLC. I'll compare it with mine. Without an AFD (airport facilities data) BGL (also known as an AFCAD), then there's no information which MakeRunways can possibly include!

Regards

Pete

[BG]

You are correct, there is no AFD file as such in the Aerosoft scenery folder - there are 20 files, each with the prefix EGLC. This is not uncommon, particularly with Aerosoft sceneries.

The point is that Makerwys appears to be scanning the EGLC scenery twice. The first time it deletes the default EGLC and obtains the data it needs for the A/soft installation. Then on a second scan, it deletes the new A/soft data.

It could be getting its data on first scan from a file called EGLC_ADE_BR. The second scan appears to be triggered by a file called EGLC_exclude. As I said in my follow-up post, if I remove this file from the scenery folder, then only one scan is performed and appropriate runway data obtained.

Bernard Greenbank

[Pete Dowson]

You are correct, there is no AFD file as such in the Aerosoft scenery folder - there are 20 files, each with the prefix EGLC. This is not uncommon, particularly with Aerosoft sceneries.

In this case they must presumably not have bothered to create their own runways, taxiways, parking spaces and so on -- all this is in an AFD file. note that AFD data does not have to be in a spearate file.

The point is that Makerwys appears to be scanning the EGLC scenery twice. The first time it deletes the default EGLC and obtains the data it needs for the A/soft installation. Then on a second scan, it deletes the new A/soft data.

No,no. you misunderstand. it scans ALL of the enabled scenery, in the priority order dictated by the SCENERY.CFG file, obeying every instruction relating to the date the files include. It is NOT scanning EGLC twice. The first EGLC file will always be the FS default one. The EGLC add-on is deleting that data by explicit instruction. It MUST replace it with its own, else there is absolutely no point in it being deleted. It still looks like there's a file missing or an error.

I respectfully suggest you raise this with Aerosoft support. It really must be going wrong in FS itself too, because FS and M akeRunways processes these things in the same way.

It could be getting its data on first scan from a file called EGLC_ADE_BR. The second scan appears to be triggered by a file called EGLC_exclude. As I said in my follow-up post, if I remove this file from the scenery folder, then only one scan is performed and appropriate runway data obtained.

That'll be the default. If the extract you posted here was complete for file EGLC_ADE_BR then there's no runway data there!

Maybe the bits of the file you posted were incomplete? If you'd like to ZIP the file and send it to me at petedowson@btconnect.com I'll check further. Possibly the data you are giving me is very misleading due to extreme editing? [LATER]

One check you can make: In the FS "Go to airport" menu, can you select runways and parking spaces for EGLC?

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

Okay .. no need to send me the file!

You are correct, there is no AFD file as such in the Aerosoft scenery folder

I've checked. I have now have Aerosoft's London City installed. Here's the EGLC references according to my MakeRwys scan: (the first is the FSX default)

Airport EGLC N51:30:18.9957  E000:03:18.9995  19ft
          City Name="London"
          Airport Name="London City"
          in file: Scenery\0601\scenery\APX48130.bgl

          Runway 10 /28  centre: N51:30:18.8337  E000:03:17.5879  19ft
              Start 10 : N51:30:20.0323  E000:02:39.8814  19ft Hdg: 92.9 true 
              Computed start 10 : Lat 51.505573 Long 0.044037
              Offset Threshold primary: 400 feet
              Start 28 : N51:30:17.6675  E000:03:55.2944  19ft Hdg: 272.9 true 
              Computed start 28 : Lat 51.504887 Long 0.065734
              Offset Threshold secondary: 160 feet
              Hdg: 92.900 true (MagVar -3.000), CONCRETE, 4930 x 98 ft
              Primary ILS ID = ILST
              Primary ILS: ILST  111.15 Hdg: 92.9 , Flags: GS DME BC "ILS/DME 10"
              Secondary ILS ID = ILSR
              Secondary ILS: ILSR  111.15 Hdg: 272.9 , Flags: GS DME BC "ILS/DME 28"
              *** Runway *** EGLC0100 Lat 51.505573 Long 0.044037 Alt 19 Hdg 96 Len 4930 Wid 98 ILS 111.15, Flags: GS DME BC
              *** Runway *** EGLC0280 Lat 51.504887 Long 0.065734 Alt 19 Hdg 276 Len 4930 Wid 98 ILS 111.15, Flags: GS DME BC
...

Airport EGLC N51:30:18.9957  E000:03:18.9995  20ft
          City Name="London"
          Airport Name="London City"
          in file: Aerosoft\EGLC Airport\scenery\EGLC_ADE_PD.bgl

          Delete all taxiways!


          Delete all runways and starts!

              *** DelBth *** EGLC0100 Lat 51.505474 Long 0.045493 Alt 19 Hdg 96 Len 4402 Wid 98 ILS 111.15, Flags: GS DME BC

              *** DelBth *** EGLC0280 Lat 51.504864 Long 0.064867 Alt 19 Hdg 276 Len 4402 Wid 98 ILS 111.15, Flags: GS DME BC


          Delete all taxiways!


          COM: Delete all frequencies!
          Runway 10 /28  centre: N51:30:18.8661  E000:03:18.4473  20ft
              Start 10 : N51:30:19.9999  E000:02:40.3419  10ft Hdg: 92.7 true 
              Computed start 10 : Lat 51.505558 Long 0.044234
              Offset Threshold primary: 164 feet
              Start 28 : N51:30:17.7971  E000:03:55.3089  10ft Hdg: 272.7 true 
              Computed start 28 : Lat 51.504925 Long 0.066015
              Offset Threshold secondary: 164 feet
              Hdg: 92.663 true (MagVar -3.000), CONCRETE, 4948 x 98 ft
              Primary ILS ID = ILST
              Primary ILS: ILST  111.15 Hdg: 92.7 , Flags: GS DME BC "ILS/DME 10"
              Secondary ILS ID = ILSR
              Secondary ILS: ILSR  111.15 Hdg: 272.7 , Flags: GS DME BC "ILS/DME 28"
              *** Runway *** EGLC0100 Lat 51.505558 Long 0.044234 Alt 20 Hdg 96 Len 4948 Wid 98 ILS 111.15, Flags: GS DME BC
              *** Runway *** EGLC0280 Lat 51.504925 Long 0.066015 Alt 20 Hdg 276 Len 4948 Wid 98 ILS 111.15, Flags: GS DME BC
         etc
...

Airport EGLC N51:30:18.9957  E000:03:18.9995  20ft
          City Name="London"
          Airport Name="London City"
          in file: Aerosoft\EGLC Airport\scenery\EGLC_exclude.bgl

          Delete all taxiways!


          Delete all runways and starts!

              *** DelBth *** EGLC0100 Lat 51.505558 Long 0.044234 Alt 20 Hdg 96 Len 4948 Wid 98 ILS 111.15, Flags: GS DME BC

              *** DelBth *** EGLC0280 Lat 51.504925 Long 0.066015 Alt 20 Hdg 276 Len 4948 Wid 98 ILS 111.15, Flags: GS DME BC


          Delete all taxiways!


          COM: Delete all frequencies!

Note that the file EGLC_ADE_PD.bgl does contain all the ADF information (I've omitted all the taxiway and parking data, but it is all there. The extracts you posted earlier were, I think misleading. Too much deleted!

But notice that EGLC_exclude.bgl file DELETES everything just included.

The order in which the BGLs are processed in a single folder depends upon the order they exist in the folder's directory -- so it is actually pot luck. In fact, since the Alphabetic order puts EXCLUDE after ADE it is more than likely that the order is wrong.

I really do not see the point of the EXCLUDE file in any case, as it is merely repeating the same instructions as at the start of the AFD file. So try disabling it -- change its .BGL ending to .BGX.

I think this is an oversight or error on the part of the scenery designer. The only sure way to get scenery files processed in a specific order is to put them in separate folders and use the CFG layering. You should report the problem to Aerosoft even if you find the solution is okay.

Regards

Pete

[BG]

Pete, thank you for taking so much trouble to provide this response. As I mentioned in my initial follow-up post, I had already run the update process having removed the troublesome 'exclude' file. The result was, as you suggest, that the runway data was not deleted and the PFE update process proceeded OK. However, PFE did not appear to have the necessary taxiway data it needs for its proprer operation, so all is not quite perfect.

I'm awaiting Dave's response to this.

Bernard Greenbank

[Pete Dowson]

Pete, thank you for taking so much trouble to provide this response. As I mentioned in my initial follow-up post, I had already run the update process having removed the troublesome 'exclude' file. The result was, as you suggest, that the runway data was not deleted and the PFE update process proceeded OK. However, PFE did not appear to have the necessary taxiway data it needs for its proprer operation, so all is not quite perfect.

I haven't checked the taxiway data provided by the AFD file, but I can do so if needed. It is quite possible that this information is neglected or incomplete for EGLC, it being really just a runway with a connected parking area.

I still believe the problem with the Exclude file should be notified to Aerosoft.

Regards

Pete

[BG]

Thanks very much. At the moment, Dave is checking for the taxiway data. Actually this issue has thrown up on the PFE website one or two other possible problem airports. The suggestion has been made that some of the newer 'high-end' airport sceneries are constructed in a manner which is unhelpful to data collection utilities.

Bernard Greenbank