CH YOKE - Z R V Axes randomly reassigned in flight

[tacomasailor]

I am suffering several problems in FSX with CH Yoke usage and control – some intermittent, some new, all very puzzling. None of these problems are specific to any aircraft.

Overview:

Moving a Yoke lever for Throttle, Prop, Mixture sometimes results in FSUIPC reassignment of one or all axes to other controls. This happens in FSX flight and in FSUIPC Axes assignment. Sometimes moving a lever results in a lost assignment in one or more axes.

When moving a Yoke lever FSUIPC console sometimes shows no data even though the Axes Assignment window shows good data.

FSUIPC4.ini shows good values but the first movement of a lever in FSX or in FSUIPC moves the wrong lever or no lever. Console log data shows one line of good data and then one or more lines of incorrect data for the single lever movement.

Many more details follow!

FSX/Acceleration

VISTA 32 Home Premium– all current maintenance

CH FlightSim Yoke USB – three years old

NO OTHER game controller plugged in.

I calibrate Yoke with CH Control Manager v4.51 – all axes and buttons work correctly and send the appropriate data to Control Manger.

I verify that no axis is assigned to any control in FSX.

FSUIPC 4.645 registered (same problems in 4.60a)

I am a long time experienced user of FSX and FSUIPC and thought I understood these things pretty well. This problem has me scratching my head.

DETAILS.

1) Axes assignments for Z R V move between the three axes while flying or during ground testing. For example – Throttle/Z, Prop/R, Mixture/V work OK and then suddenly, during one movement of one Yoke lever the assignments change to Throttle/R, Prop/Z, Mixture/V OR Throttle might be assigned to both Z and R. When this happens one of the Yoke levers will not move the lever in either the VC or 2D cockpit. The reassignments can be in any combination.

The change in assignment is often NOT for the lever that moved, e.g move the Yoke mixture lever and the prop control is reassigned to axis V.

Subsequent Rescans and Yoke lever movements may or may not result in the correct control being assigned. If it is – the VC or 2D lever may or may not actually move.

2) Same as 1) above except the assignment for one or more axes is lost when a lever is move. Sometimes the lost assignment IS NOT the lever that is moved. A 2nd Rescan in FSUIPC Axes assignment sometimes reassigns the correct control set, sometimes a randomly different control set, and sometimes never assigns a control set. Subsequent Rescans and Yoke lever movements may or may not result in reassignments.

3) While testing and writing the FSUIPC data to the console log I see the following.

Move Yoke Mixture lever

Axis: Cntrl = 65773 …Param,=-15733 Mixture Set

Axis: Cntrl = 65821… Param =0 Throttle2_Set

Axis: Cntrl = 65820… Param =0 Throttle1_ Set

Any additional movement of the Yoke Mixture results in NO additional output to the console. However – while moving the Yoke Mixture lever ->

The AXES ASSIGNMENT Window in FSUIPC shows the correct axis for Mixture Set and shows the correct raw data for axis V. Doing a Rescan for the Yoke prop lever shows no assignment but does show the correct data for the R axis. And the Yoke throttle lever works as it should.

If I then go back to move the Yoke mixture lever it may or may not work correctly. Sometimes the Rescan shows the correct Mixture Set and correct raw data values for the V axis but the VC/2D lever does not move (console shows no data when moving the Yoke lever). Sometimes the VC/2D lever does move ((console shows the correct data when moving the Yoke lever)

The sequence shown in 3 above is quite common.

4) I clear all axes assignments and use three more Rescans to verify there are no axis assignments. I then rescan one Yoke lever and assign a control to it – I then rescan the other Yoke levers and often find the same assignment to one of them.

5) I get all three axes set “normally” in FSUIPC axis assignment and return to FSX but DO NOT touch any controls or levers. I then return to FSUIPC Axes assignment and rescan ONE lever and find it is already reassigned to a different axis. At that point the ONLY time I have touched a lever was to Rescan it.

The console log shows NO DATA for any axes movement between the Rescan that did the assignment and the Rescan that found the incorrect assignment.

The console log shows no data for the 2nd Rescan even though the Axes Assignment window shows the correct raw data and an incorrect control assignment.

When I close FSX and look at FSUIPC4.ini I always see the correct modification timestamp for the FSX closure and I see the [Axes] assignments for all axes are correct, e.g. 0R,256,F,65767,0,0 – even when I close FSX with inoperative Yoke levers and missing or duplicate assignments in the Axes Assignment window.

I have tried assigning the axes to FSUIPC Calibration and I have tried sending them to FS normal axis. I get all the same problems in both cases.

None of these problems occur with the Wheel (X/Y axis) – they work correctly and never get reassigned.

I have also never seen the button assignments change.

Here is a log of a brief flight - this is ALL the data except for redundant throttle data

********* FSUIPC4, Version 4.645 by Pete Dowson *********

Reading options from "F:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Modules\FSUIPC4.ini"

Trying to connect to SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07 ...

User Name="blanked out”

User Addr="blanked out"

FSUIPC4 Key is provided

WIDEFS7 not user registered, or expired

Running inside FSX on Windows Vista (using SimConnect Acc/SP2 Oct07)

Module base=61000000

Wind smoothing fix is fully installed

DebugStatus=15

94 System time = 30/12/2010 19:46:58

94 FLT path = "C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\"

94 FS path = "F:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\"

500 LogOptions=10000000 00000001

500 SimConnect_Open succeeded: waiting to check version okay

1857 Running in "Microsoft Flight Simulator X", Version: 10.0.61637.0 (SimConnect: 10.0.61259.0)

1857 Initialising SimConnect data requests now

1857 FSUIPC Menu entry added

1904 C:\Users\Administrator\Documents\Flight Simulator X Files\Baron at KTIW NO scenery.FLT

1904 F:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\SimObjects\Airplanes\beech_baron_58\Beech_Baron_58.AIR

29313 System time = 30/12/2010 19:47:27, Simulator time = 12:34:34 (19:34Z)

29313 Aircraft="Beech Baron 58 Paint1"

29453 Advanced Weather Interface Enabled

79031 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 14080 (0x00003700) THROTTLE_SET < MOVED THE YOKE THROTTLE – WORKS OK

79031 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 10624 (0x00002980) THROTTLE_SET

79077 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 7808 (0x00001e80) THROTTLE_SET

… DELTED A BUNCH OF THROTTLE DATA

84584 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65767 (0x000100e7), Param= 15104 (0x00003b00) PROP_PITCH_SET<=MOVED THE YOKE PROP PITCH – OK FOR A WHILE

84584 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65767 (0x000100e7), Param= 12800 (0x00003200) PROP_PITCH_SET

87642 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 12800 (0x00003200) THROTTLE_SET <=STILL MOVING THE PROP PITCH LEVER

87642 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 7680 (0x00001e00) THROTTLE_SET

87657 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= 1152 (0x00000480) THROTTLE_SET

87689 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -6761 (0xffffe597) THROTTLE_SET

87689 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -11182 (0xffffd452) THROTTLE_SET

87720 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65697 (0x000100a1), Param= -16384 (0xffffc000) THROTTLE_SET

95301 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65773 (0x000100ed), Param= 15360 (0x00003c00) MIXTURE_SET <=MOVED THE YOKE MIXTURE LEVER – OK FOR A WHILE

95301 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65773 (0x000100ed), Param= 13824 (0x00003600) MIXTURE_SET

95317 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65821 (0x0001011d), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE2_SET < STILL MOVING THE MIXTURE LEVER

95317 *** AXIS: Cntrl= 65820 (0x0001011c), Param= 0 (0x00000000) THROTTLE1_SET

*** AT THIS POINT MOVEMENT OF THE PROP PITCH AND MIXTURE LEVERS RESULT IN NO ADDITIONAL LOG DATA NOR DO THE COCKPIT LEVERS MOVE – FSUIPC AXIS ASSIGNMENT SHOWS VALID RAW DATA AND THE CORRECT ASSIGNMENTS AT EACH RESCAN ***

143646 Sim stopped: average frame rate for last 82 secs = 91.8 fps

143646 Average weather filter write interval in that time = 4110.6 msecs

[Log closed by user request, and continued in new file]

158295 System time = 30/12/2010 19:49:36, Simulator time = 12:36:21 (19:36Z)

158295 *** FSUIPC log file being closed

Average frame rate for running time of 89 secs = 88.0 fps

Average weather filter write interval in that time = 4473.3 msecs

Memory managed: 55 Allocs, 54 Freed

********* FSUIPC Log file closed ***********

************** MORE DETAILS ***************************

Started FSX & assigned all axes and tested with Rescan.

Shut down FSX

Started FSX with FSUIPC Console Log sent to screen

Z R V axes worked as defined (Throttle, Prop, Mixture) in both FSX where they moved the cockpit levers and in Axis Assignment. The FSUIPC console log shows the appropriate data

After several cycles through full range motion of each axis I ended up with:

Axis Z – Throttle Set – moving Yoke Throttle moves the cockpit Throttle. Console log shows Axis: Cntrl = 65697…etc

Axis Assignment window in FSUIPC shows the appropriate raw data and Rescan shows Throttle Set is to be sent to FS

Axis R – Prop Pitch – moving Yoke Prop lever does not move the cockpit lever

Console log shows no input data for Axis R

Axis Assignment window in FSUIPC shows the appropriate raw data and Rescan shows Prop Pitch Set is to be sent to FS

Axis V – Mixture – moving Yoke Mixture lever does not move the cockpit lever

Console log shows no input data for Axis V

Axis Assignment window in FSUIPC shows the appropriate raw data and Rescan shows Mixture Set is to be sent to FS

[Pete Dowson]

FSUIPC4.ini shows good values but the first movement of a lever in FSX or in FSUIPC moves the wrong lever or no lever. Console log data shows one line of good data and then one or more lines of incorrect data for the single lever movement.

The cause could be bad hardware, bad USB ports, conflicting assignments in FS, bad or no calibration.

I calibrate Yoke with CH Control Manager v4.51 – all axes and buttons work correctly and send the appropriate data to Control Manger.

Is this compatible with FSUIPC assignment? I'm sorry, but I don't know what CH Control Manager does. Maybe it does FS assignments too?

All the rest of your details make no sense to me at a software level, I'm afraid. There is no way FSUIPC can get different inputs mixed up, it is using the same DirectInput interface as FS. And the code is identical for all axes, not specifically different for a small fixed selection. The fact that it is so specific in your case does point strongly to a hardware problem.

Maybe, if you are still using that CH software is it possible that it is interfering with DirectInput?

Otherwise, since it only affects a specific selected part of your hardware, my guess is that it is hardware. You say "CH FlightSim Yoke USB – three years old". Did you just purchase it second-hand, then, or was it working once in your possession? What were you using before this?

The fact that it varies so much might point to a hardware fault which is timing related -- polling the device less often might help. FSUIPC4 polls axes 100 times per second by default. Try "PollInterval=100" in the main [Axes] section of the INI. That'll slow it to 10 times per second, closer to FSX's rate. If that helps, it's definitely hardware related, or a badly corrupted USB software driver.

If you want me to check anything further I need to see the FSUIPC4.INI file please. And can you tell me why you are using FSUIPC axis assignment?

Pete

[tacomasailor]

Peter - thank you for the quick reply. I am quite certain these problems are not caused by FSUIPC- I have been using FSUIPC for years and have never had a problem with it.

CH Control manager run in Direct Mode (the only way I use it) allows for advanced calibration and response curves similar to your Joystick Calibration. I use Process Explorer t ensure no software other than FSX is running. The CH Yoke and Pro Pedals do not even have a driver as far as I can tell.

I am very careful to ensure there is no duplicate assignments between FSX and FSUIPC controls - however see the following details.

I fly many different aircraft and want to have controls that are specific to an aircraft or aircraft type and FSUIPC makes that much easier to accomplish than does FSX control assignments.

Here are some more confusing details

Started FSX assigned all axes and tested with Rescan.

Shut down FSX

Started FSX with FSUIPC Console Log sent to screen

Z R V axes worked as defined (Throttle, Prop, Mixture) in both FSX where they moved the cockpit levers and in Axis Assignment. The FSUIPC console log shows the appropriate data

After several cycles through full range motion of each axis I ended up with:

Axis Z – Throttle Set – moving Yoke Throttle moves the cockpit Throttle. Console log shows Axis: Cntrl = 65697…etc

Axis Assignment window in FSUIPC shows the appropriate raw data and Rescan shows Throttle Set is to be sent to FS

Axis R – Prop Pitch – moving Yoke Prop lever does not move the cockpit lever

Console log shows no input data for Axis R

Axis Assignment window in FSUIPC shows the appropriate raw data and Rescan shows Prop Pitch Set is to be sent to FS

Axis V – Mixture – moving Yoke Mixture lever does not move the cockpit lever

Console log shows no input data for Axis V

Axis Assignment window in FSUIPC shows the appropriate raw data and Rescan shows Mixture Set is to be sent to FS

FSUIPC Joystick Calibration

FSUIPC Joystick Calibration shows NO real time data for ANY Axis – even for the Axes that work – X (Ailerons) Y(Elevator) Z(Throttle) – Those axes do move the flight controls in FSX

ALL axes (X Y Z R V) show the appropriate real time data in Axis Assignment when I move the YOKE control. But in Joystick Calibration NO axis shows any IN or OUT data.

ALL axes are shown as set but no real time data is shown for IN / OUT when I move any axis.

IF I assign the axis in FSX OPTIONS/SETTINGS/CONTROLS then FSUIPC Calibration shows the correct IN/OUT data.

I do the FSUIPC Calibration and then go back to FSX and unassign all axes in the Controls axes assignment. After I do that the controls still work in FSX but I can no longer Calibrate them in FSUIPC.

Then I move the mixture lever on the Yoke and the whole problem sequence starts again.

I thought the whole point of FSUIPC axis and button assignment was to eliminate the need to assign and mange axes and buttons in FSX due to the limited flexibility of FSX controls. Do I have a fundamental mis-understanding here??

[Pete Dowson]

I fly many different aircraft and want to have controls that are specific to an aircraft or aircraft type and FSUIPC makes that much easier to accomplish than does FSX control assignments.

Okay.

IF I assign the axis in FSX OPTIONS/SETTINGS/CONTROLS then FSUIPC Calibration shows the correct IN/OUT data.

FSX uses a much slower poll rate.

I do the FSUIPC Calibration and then go back to FSX and unassign all axes in the Controls axes assignment. After I do that the controls still work in FSX but I can no longer Calibrate them in FSUIPC.

So by magic with no axes assigned in FSUIPC and FSX the controls still work in FSX? That makes absolutely no sense. You can't have unassigned them! Try disabling the controller in FSX instead.

I thought the whole point of FSUIPC axis and button assignment was to eliminate the need to assign and mange axes and buttons in FSX due to the limited flexibility of FSX controls. Do I have a fundamental mis-understanding here??

No.

You need to narrow down where the problem lies. it is sounding more and more like hardware. Have you bothered to follow my suggestion and tried a much lower poll rate? If not, why not? I don't see any point in your posting more details but ignoring suggestions.

BTW, the way the DirectInput is used provides ALL axes and buttons and POVs in one data bundle every time the joystick is polled. Since some of those axes and values (buttons for example) are not giving you any problems but the others are, it points to corruption in that data but in a specific area of that data. So, it even more suggests a corrupted driver, or bad hardware. Even a failing memory module, but if that was happening you'd expect it to be different on different loads. Seems more likely to be USB or device. To eliminate USB try different USB ports. Since USB is a serial medium, a byte missing in an exchange will get following bytes shifted.

I'll check the data structure for you to see where the "bad stuff" lies, relatively ...

... Hmm. Interestingly the order is: X, Y, Z, V, R, U, S, T, P, Q, M, N and then the 32 buttons.

So a USB corruption, whilst still possible, looks less likely than a hardware problem in the device.

I asked, but you never said whether you'd used this device before or bought it second-hand and only just started with it. If it is 3 years old, what happened before you started getting this problem?

Regards

Pete

[tacomasailor]

Peter,

I am sorry I didn't get around to changing the polling as quickly as you wanted - it was 3 AM here when I was working on my last reply - I gave up and went to bed for a while. That also may explain why a couple of my comments were not so clear or easy for you to understand.

Have you bothered to follow my suggestion and tried a much lower poll rate? If not, why not? I don't see any point in your posting more details but ignoring suggestions.

I will test that option ASAP

So by magic with no axes assigned in FSUIPC and FSX the controls still work in FSX? That makes absolutely no sense. You can't have unassigned them! Try disabling the controller in FSX instead.

I am sorry I was not clear about this.

1) I wanted to use FSUIPC Joystick Calibration - there is NO IN/OUT raw data in Calibration until I assign an axis in FSX - but there is raw data in FSUIPC Axis assignment with NO Axis assigned in FSX

2) I assign an axis in FSX

3) I use FSUIPC Joystick Calibration

4) I unassign the axis in FSX but it is still assigned in FSUIPC

5) The Yoke lever moves the FSX control, FSUIPC Console shows the correct input, FSUIPC Axis Assignment Rescan shows the correct input, FSUIPC Joystick Calibration shows no IN/OUT data

I asked, but you never said whether you'd used this device before or bought it second-hand and only just started with it. If it is 3 years old, what happened before you started getting this problem?

I have had the CH Yoke since it was new three years ago. It has always worked perfectly. Calibration of the Yoke using the CH Calibration tool (CH Control Manager v4.51] shows ALL axes to have very smooth and linear outputs. There is no spiking, no extraneous output, the appropriate numeric values through the full range of motion for each axis. FSUIPC Joystick Calibration also shows smooth linear data for the CH Yoke.

As far as I can know I made no changes to FSX internals or CH drivers (I don't think there are any) prior to these problems beginning earlier this week. The last VISTA update was Dec 19. I did not notice these problems until around Dec 26/27.

You need to narrow down where the problem lies. it is sounding more and more like hardware.

Yes - your are correct! I will concentrate on one axis and try to define the limits of the problem. HOWEVER If the error is hardware it is not in the CH Yoke - I have the identical problem with CH Pedals, and the Saitek ST290 Joystick.

I will test the CH Yoke more and try plugging it into other USB ports (the game PC has eight)

I will refine the details to the relevant minimum and send the Console Log and FSUIPC.ini to you when I get the details minimized and isolated.

This morning I told FSX not to load FSUIPC (using manual load in dll.xml)

1) I assigned all axes for the CH Yoke

2) All axes work as intended and remain correct through an extended flight

3) Shut down FSX and then restarted FSX - all Yoke controls still work perfectly

haven't gotten around to testing this morning in FSUIPC

There is no huge rush on this problem.

Happy New Year and thanks for the great product and support

[Pete Dowson]

1) I wanted to use FSUIPC Joystick Calibration - there is NO IN/OUT raw data in Calibration until I assign an axis in FSX - but there is raw data in FSUIPC Axis assignment with NO Axis assigned in FSX

Yes, that's all correct. The FSUIPC assignments tab is completely independent to what you do in FSX.

5) The Yoke lever moves the FSX control, FSUIPC Console shows the correct input, FSUIPC Axis Assignment Rescan shows the correct input, FSUIPC Joystick Calibration shows no IN/OUT data

You must surely be looking at the wrong entry? There is really no way I know that can happen.

I have had the CH Yoke since it was new three years ago. It has always worked perfectly. Calibration of the Yoke using the CH Calibration tool (CH Control Manager v4.51] shows ALL axes to have very smooth and linear outputs. There is no spiking, no extraneous output, the appropriate numeric values through the full range of motion for each axis. FSUIPC Joystick Calibration also shows smooth linear data for the CH Yoke.

As far as I can know I made no changes to FSX internals or CH drivers (I don't think there are any) prior to these problems beginning earlier this week. The last VISTA update was Dec 19. I did not notice these problems until around Dec 26/27.

So almost nothing has changed. Evidently something significant has. If not software it must be hardware, by a process of elimination. but narrowing down where sounds likely to be the main problem.

Yes - your are correct! I will concentrate on one axis and try to define the limits of the problem. HOWEVER If the error is hardware it is not in the CH Yoke - I have the identical problem with CH Pedals, and the Saitek ST290 Joystick.

Er ... the plot suddenly thickens. Didn't you think that was worth mentioning before, at all? Not relevant?

It is starting to sound like a system error, maybe a corrupted file in Windows, possibly caused by hardware or a bad update download. Try reverting to before the last Vista update. Or, much better, try upgrading to Windows 7 -- it is MUCH better than Vista.

I will refine the details to the relevant minimum and send the Console Log and FSUIPC.ini to you when I get the details minimized and isolated.

It doesn't sound like it is worthwhile sending me anything. There is nothing logical for me to pursue at my end. Apart from trying a slower poll rate as I suggested

This morning I told FSX not to load FSUIPC (using manual load in dll.xml)

1) I assigned all axes for the CH Yoke

2) All axes work as intended and remain correct through an extended flight

3) Shut down FSX and then restarted FSX - all Yoke controls still work perfectly

Still pointing to timing then, as that's the only real difference.

Regards

Pete