MakeRunways. Some runways missed.

[luis-fernandez]

Hello...

I am using MakeRunways and, apparently, it can not get information from some airports.

There might be something wrong in the .bgls...¿?

For example, I paste info about LE88...

1) ...from runways.txt:

=============================================================================

Addon Scenery\AirHispania SC\scenery\Arcones_LE88_AF.BGL

=============================================================================

Airport LE88 :N41:06:52.9701 W003:44:03.5381 3828ft

City Name="Arcones"

Airport Name="Arcones"

in file: Addon Scenery\AirHispania SC\scenery\Arcones_LE88_AF.BGL

Runway 26 /8 centre: N41:06:52.6138 W003:44:01.3154 3828ft

Start 26 : N41:06:53.7152 W003:43:55.6941 3828ft Hdg: 255.6 true

Start 8 : N41:06:51.5448 W003:44:06.9370 3828ft Hdg: 75.6 true

Hdg: 255.568 true (MagVar -3.100), ASPHALT, 984 x 66 ft

Taxipoint #0, type 1 (normal): N41:06:50.6377 W003:44:04.8205 -- Forward

Taxipoint #1, type 1 (normal): N41:06:50.8321 W003:44:03.4961 -- Forward

etc etc....

2) ...from runways.xml:

<ICAO id="LE88">

<ICAOName>Arcones</ICAOName>

<City>Arcones</City>

<Longitude>-3.734316</Longitude>

<Latitude>41.114723</Latitude>

<Altitude>3828</Altitude>

<MagVar>-3.100</MagVar>

</ICAO>

As you can see, in runways.xml there is no information about runways and, therefore, LE88 doesn't appear in R4.csv

Dou you have any clue?

Thank you very much.

AHS8553 Luis Fernández LEVD

www.airhispania.com

[Pete Dowson]

I am using MakeRunways and, apparently, it can not get information from some airports.

There might be something wrong in the .bgls...¿?

What version number of MakeRunways? If not 4.43 please update and try again.

For example, I paste info about LE88...

Is that the only one you found?

It appears to be too short:

Hdg: 255.568 true (MagVar -3.100), ASPHALT, 984 x 66 ft

MakeRunways produces databases for airliner utilities like Radar Contact (its first user) and omits runways less than 1500 metres as well as heliports and water ports. What are you using it for? Maybe you need some sort of run-time override? In general I can't let folks include runways too short for IFR programs to assign.

As you can see, in runways.xml there is no information about runways and, therefore, LE88 doesn't appear in R4.csv

The xml and csv and rws files are all produced from the same data. The xml file is a recent addition, it isn't a source of the data as you imply here.

Regards

Pete

[luis-fernandez]

Hello Pete.

Yes, I have found several aerodromes with the same problem.

In our virtual airline we have a tool to evaluate the quality of our flights.

This tool checks (among other parameters) if we have landed right on the runway.

That's why I need to know the runway coordinates.

If MakeRunways omits runways shorter than 1500 m then it would be a pity.

By the way.. what do you mean by "Maybe you need some sort of run-time override?"

I am using MakeRunways 4.41. I will try with 4.43 and I will let you know.

Thank you very much for your help.

AHS8553 Luis Fernández LEVD

www.airhispania.com

[Pete Dowson]

Yes, I have found several aerodromes with the same problem.

All shorter runways than 1500m?

In our virtual airline we have a tool to evaluate the quality of our flights.

This tool checks (among other parameters) if we have landed right on the runway.

That's why I need to know the runway coordinates.

Right, and does this virtual airline fly airliners which can cope on such short runways? That's the main question I think. If not, then by definition it's the wrong runway. ;-)

If MakeRunways omits runways shorter than 1500 m then it would be a pity.

By the way.. what do you mean by "Maybe you need some sort of run-time override?"

A facility, say a command line option like "/Rn" which tells MakeRunways to allow runways down to length n metres.

I am using MakeRunways 4.41. I will try with 4.43 and I will let you know.

If it is because of the length that won't make any difference. Let me know why you need it and I can add the facility.

Regards

Pete

[luis-fernandez]

Thanks Pete.

I tried with version 4.43 and I got the same.

Apparently, the length is not the problem because I found LE38 which length is 1739 ft

1) in runways.txt:

=============================================================================

Addon Scenery\AirHispania SC\scenery\Torremocha de Jiloca_LE38_AF2.BGL

=============================================================================

Airport LE38 :N40:36:11.8059 W001:15:54.4421 3332ft

City Name="Torremocha"

Airport Name="Torremocha de Jiloca"

in file: Addon Scenery\AirHispania SC\scenery\Torremocha de Jiloca_LE38_AF2.BGL

Runway 15 /33 centre: N40:36:11.8059 W001:15:54.4421 3332ft

Start 15 : N40:36:18.3172 W001:15:58.8772 3332ft Hdg: 152.4 true

Computed start 15 : Lat 40.605392 Long -1.266578

Offset Threshold primary: 131 feet

Start 33 : N40:36:06.8172 W001:15:50.9867 3332ft Hdg: 332.4 true

Computed start 33 : Lat 40.601166 Long -1.263667

Offset Threshold secondary: 295 feet

Hdg: 152.400 true (MagVar -2.000), Asphalt, 1739 x 79 ft

*** Runway *** LE380150 Lat 40.605392 Long -1.266578 Alt 3332 Hdg 154 Len 1739 Wid 79

*** Runway *** LE380330 Lat 40.601166 Long -1.263667 Alt 3332 Hdg 334 Len 1739 Wid 79

COM: Type=7 (CLEARANCE), Freq=130.12, Name="Jefe de vuelos"

Taxipoint #0, type 1 (normal): N40:36:16.0820 W001:15:58.5893 -- Forward

Taxipoint #1, type 1 (normal): N40:36:06.0073 W001:15:51.7317 -- Forward

2) in runways.xml:

<ICAO id="LE38">

<ICAOName>Torremocha de Jiloca</ICAOName>

<City>Torremocha</City>

<Longitude>-1.265123</Longitude>

<Latitude>40.603283</Latitude>

<Altitude>3332</Altitude>

<MagVar>-2.000</MagVar>

<Runway id="15">

<Len>1739</Len>

<Hdg>154.400</Hdg>

<Def>Asphalt</Def>

<ILSFreq></ILSFreq>

<Lat>40.605392</Lat>

<Lon>-1.266578</Lon>

</Runway>

<Runway id="33">

<Len>1739</Len>

<Hdg>334.400</Hdg>

<Def>Asphalt</Def>

<ILSFreq></ILSFreq>

<Lat>40.601166</Lat>

<Lon>-1.263667</Lon>

</Runway>

</ICAO>

Thank you.

AHS8553 Luis Fernández LEVD

www.airhispania.com

[Pete Dowson]

Apparently, the length is not the problem because I found LE38 which length is 1739 ft

Er, 1739 feet is still less than 1500 metres!

1500m = 4921 feet.

Regards

Pete

[luis-fernandez]

Sorry... I didn't explain it well. I mean... It is shorter than 1500 m and MakeRunways has taken it in account !

So, the length is not the problem.

Thank you.

AHS8553 Luis Fernández LEVD

www.airhispania.com

Edited March 25, 2011 by luis-fernandez

[Pete Dowson]

Sorry... I didn't explain it well. I mean... It is shorter than 1500 m and MakeRunways has taken it in account !

Oh, sorry. I didn't read further than the first few lines! Apologies.

I don't know what is preventing the first example, and allowing the second. According to the code it should discard anything less than 1500 metres, but I assume there are exceptions for some reason. The code has become quite convoluted due to changes in the demands made of it, and changes in the BGL formats themselves between different versions of FS (MakeRunways dates origins back to FS95, 16 years ago!)

In order to find out what is going on I would need the two BGL files you showed as test subjects, please. These were

Addon Scenery\AirHispania SC\scenery\Torremocha de Jiloca_LE38_AF2.BGL

Addon Scenery\AirHispania SC\scenery\Arcones_LE88_AF.BGL

ZIP them and email as attachments to petedowson@btconnect.com. I should be able to tell you then what is going on.

Regards

Pete

[Pete Dowson]

Apparently, the length is not the problem because I found LE38 which length is 1739 ft

Okay, the "mystery" is resolved. It is so long since I examined MakeRunways data that I was fooled even myself!

Look;

Runway 15 /33 centre: N40:36:11.8059 W001:15:54.4421 3332ft

Start 15 : N40:36:18.3172 W001:15:58.8772 3332ft Hdg: 152.4 true

The length of the runway doesn't appear in these lines. The 3332 feet is the ALTITUDE!

the length in these lines:

*** Runway *** LE380150 Lat 40.605392 Long -1.266578 Alt 3332 Hdg 154 Len 1739 Wid 79

*** Runway *** LE380330 Lat 40.601166 Long -1.263667 Alt 3332 Hdg 334 Len 1739 Wid 79

is in METRES, so more than 1500!

The length of the runways in the earlier example was actually only 984 metres.

I'll change the line starting "Runway" to also show the length, in case others get confused.

[LATER]

Okay. I added the length, and provided a command line override facility so you can specify a lower length limit if you wish. Version 4.44 is now available in the Download Links subforum.

Regards

Pete

[luis-fernandez]

I am sorry Pete but the problem is still there.

And I think the length is in feet because LE38 and LE88 runways are quite short, just for small airplanes. I am sure LE38 is not 1739m long

There must be something odd in the bgls. Why don't you copy both bgls in your FS and try?

Thank you for your time.

Regards.

AHS8553 Luis Fernández LEVD

www.airhispania.com

[Pete Dowson]

I am sorry Pete but the problem is still there.

No, there was no real problem at all. It was certainly only the lengths.

And I think the length is in feet because LE38 and LE88 runways are quite short, just for small airplanes. I am sure LE38 is not 1739m long

Hmm. I think you might be correct. The BGL documentation I have definitely says both length and width are in metres, but it must be that I convert them in the program someplace I didn't spot. I told you the code is very old and I don't remember it all! ;-)

I'll re-check, then change the "m"'s in the listing in MakeRunways to "ft".

It does not change the fact that one was greater than 1500 feet and the other less. So the reason for the difference was and remains the lengths.

I'll replace 4.44 with 4.45 in due course, but it doesn't change what you get in the files.

[LATER]

Okay, it's there now. As I said, the only correction is an "m" to "ft" in the TXT file, and the documentation says feet instead of metres. The results you get in the files produced won't be any different.

Regards

Pete

[luis-fernandez]

Still no luck :sad:

I attach a screenshot of r4.csv

It's not only LE88, there are several aerodromes in the same situation.

I run makerwys from the command prompt:

E:\FS9>makerwys.exe/>0

Is that correct??

Thank you and I am sorry to disturb you, Pete.

AHS8553 Luis Fernández LEVD

www.airhispania.com

[Pete Dowson]

Still no luck :sad:

I attach a screenshot of r4.csv

It's not only LE88, there are several aerodromes in the same situation.

Because the runways are too short, as I keep telling you! I added a facility specifically for you to override the minimum of 1500 feet. If you insist on using such impossible short runways for your virtual airline (only Cessnas flown?) then simply use that facility.

I run makerwys from the command prompt:

E:\FS9>makerwys.exe/>0

You need a space after the EXE of course. And in general it is better to place a shortcut on the desktop and add the parameter in the command line.there. The current folder must be the one where MakeRunways is, and you can't be sure of that with a "Run" entry. You'd have to open up a DOS window and do things there, or write a batch file. Shortcuts are much easier.

Don't blame me if you get stupid ghost runways showing up for airports, often a long way from the airport they relate to! It was to get rid of those that a limit was imposed.

Thank you and I am sorry to disturb you, Pete.

Well, I can't see any reason you continue this thread. Don't you believe what I tell you? What's the picture for, by the way? Did you not notice that ALL of the runways you illustrated are over 1500 feet?

Here's my results with version 4.45 and the />0 option:

LE38,0150,40.605392,-1.266578,3332,154.400,1739,0,79,-2.000,40.603279,-1.265123,131
LE38,0330,40.601166,-1.263667,3332,334.400,1739,0,79,-2.000,40.603279,-1.265123,295
LE88,0080,41.114281,-3.735434,3828,78.668,984,0,66,-3.100,41.114616,-3.733699,0
LE88,0260,41.114952,-3.731964,3828,258.668,984,0,66,-3.100,41.114616,-3.733699,0

Regards

Pete

[luis-fernandez]

And in general it is better to place a shortcut on the desktop and add the parameter in the command line.there.

Yes, that was the trick !!

It works!

It doesn't work in a DOS window :blink:

Thank you very much for the new version... and for your patience.

AHS8553 Luis Fernández LEVD

www.airhispania.com