weird problem with PFC avionics stack

[blave]

I just built a new gaming rig, and have spent some time trying to get my PFC stack to work with FSX with no luck. Here are the facts:

1. the stack works fine with my old PC, which has a serial port built-in. Note that the FSUIPC and PFCFSX.DLL versions on that system are not current though (4.6 and 4.3 respectively)
   
2. the new system (based on an Asus P8Z68 mobo) doesn't have a serial port, so I'm using a serial-to-USB adaptor that is listed in Device Manager as "Prolific USB-to-Serial Com Port (COM3)". I have used this adapter before, but not with the PFC stack. Windows 7 thinks it's working fine.
   
3. new system has the latest FSUIPC and PFCFSX DLLs.
   
4. When I enable the "Run connection tests at startup" in the PFC add-on dialog and restart FSX, the following "green check" messages appear: "FSUIPC4 okay. All options available: 4.800", "COM3 open okay", and "Okay!" next to "Avionics / radio stack connection".
   
5. when I go to the Test tab in the PFC add-on dialog, I'm getting uncommanded messages: "E4 09 DME RMI = NAV1", "F4 07 DME mode2 = RMT", and "F4 00 DME mode1 = Off". Those three messages keep repeating over and over. If I press any button/twist any knob, these are reported correctly, including the slide switches that correspond to the uncommanded messsages.
   
6. The stack's LED displays remains dark, or if I cycle power it will remain in the initialized mode that shows its firmware's date code.
   

Initially I thought this was caused by the USB to serial dongle being defective, but I can't imagine how it could cause those three specific switch codes to happen and nothing else.

Any ideas guys?

Thanks,

Dave B.

[Pete Dowson]

when I go to the Test tab in the PFC add-on dialog, I'm getting uncommanded messages: "E4 09 DME RMI = NAV1", "F4 07 DME mode2 = RMT", and "F4 00 DME mode1 = Off". Those three messages keep repeating over and over.

Are they correct? Most PFC controllers send some of their status messages at regular intervals, like every second or maybe twice per second.

If I press any button/twist any knob, these are reported correctly, including the slide switches that correspond to the uncommanded messsages.

Okay, so far so good ...

the stack's LED displays remains dark, or if I cycle power it will remain in the initialized mode that shows its firmware's date code.

So it isn't re-initialising from the PC after a reset? I assume, then that the button codes don't get sent then either?

Initially I thought this was caused by the USB to serial dongle being defective, but I can't imagine how it could cause those three specific switch codes to happen and nothing else.

I never had anything but problems with USB serial port adapters when I changed to Windows 7. I don't think any of their drivers are any good. You appear to have one that works for input and not for output. I gave up on them all (including a couple of quite expensive ones) and got a BrainBoxes PCI or PCI-Express serial port board instead. they work perfectly. I'm afraif I cannot recommend anything else.

Regards

Pete

[blave]

Pete,

once again I am amazed at your quick reply... Do you ever sleep?

After the stack is re-powered and FSX is restarted, I get the repeating 3 switch codes, as well as correct responses when I turn knobs or switch switches. Nothing seems to change that.

I will buy a PCI serial port board on the weekend. BTW I will point out that your PFC instruction document strongly recommends a USB to serial converter gizmo, for WinXP -- perhaps that needs to be updated for Win7 in terms of NOT recommending a USB to serial thingy.

I'll let you know how things turn out...

cheers,

Dave.

[Pete Dowson]

I will buy a PCI serial port board on the weekend.

I don't know if those other than BrainBoxes work, mind.

BTW I will point out that your PFC instruction document strongly recommends a USB to serial converter gizmo, for WinXP -- perhaps that needs to be updated for Win7 in terms of NOT recommending a USB to serial thingy.

Ah, okay. Thanks for pointing it out. The PFC driver does date back quite a few years now. The current PFC stuff is full USB, not serial port.

Regards

Pete

[blave]

Hmmm, I guess I missed your post about BrainBoxes. I ordered a PCI-to-dual-RS232 card from Amazon (Eight bucks shipped!) a couple days ago, and it came today. It does exactly the same thing - repeating messages from the DME part of the stack, and all displays remain dark.

Today I also tried the older FSUIPC and PFCSFX DLLs that are on my old WinXP gaming rig, with which the stack does work on that system, and that didn't make any difference.

One thing I will note is that the first time I clicked through the optional "check equipment on startup" dialog that PFCSFX has, the display went from its normal "show the firmware datecode" mode to being completely dark, other than the PWR and TRANS LEDs.

So I'll admit that I tried to Go Cheap on the PCI-RS232 board, but the fact that it does exactly the same thing as the USB > Serial dongle that I tried before makes me wonder if there isn't some other issue, possibly related to Win7? This is the first time I've run FSX on that OS.

I only say that because the stack works fine with my old XP-based FSX system.

thanks,

Dave.

I don't know if those other than BrainBoxes work, mind.

[Pete Dowson]

Hmmm, I guess I missed your post about BrainBoxes. I ordered a PCI-to-dual-RS232 card from Amazon (Eight bucks shipped!) a couple days ago, and it came today. It does exactly the same thing - repeating messages from the DME part of the stack, and all displays remain dark.

Hmm. Very suspicious.

Today I also tried the older FSUIPC and PFCSFX DLLs that are on my old WinXP gaming rig, with which the stack does work on that system, and that didn't make any difference.

Not surprising, as it most certainly sounds more hardware or driver related. Did you try on that older system with a USB adapter or your new PCI card? That might help determine where the problem lies, though of course the Windows 7 drivers will be different to the XP ones, especially if your Win 7 is 64-bit.

One thing I will note is that the first time I clicked through the optional "check equipment on startup" dialog that PFCSFX has, the display went from its normal "show the firmware datecode" mode to being completely dark, other than the PWR and TRANS LEDs.

So some output is getting there. Just not enough. I think to blank the displays only takes a couple of bytes or so.

So I'll admit that I tried to Go Cheap on the PCI-RS232 board, but the fact that it does exactly the same thing as the USB > Serial dongle that I tried before makes me wonder if there isn't some other issue, possibly related to Win7? This is the first time I've run FSX on that OS.

I don't think it is Windows 7. I have Win7 64-bit running on two separate systems, both with PFC stuff connected, including displays (a console with the stack built in), and never have any problems. I'm still betting it's bad drivers, especially for 64-bit Windows.

The Brainboxes card was 50 UKP the first time I bought one. The last time it was over 60 UKP. A lot of difference to 8 bucks shipped!

I only say that because the stack works fine with my old XP-based FSX system.

Yes, but I think the problem is drivers.

Before giving up on the 8 bucks card, go online and see if you can find an updated driver -- 64-bit if that's what you are using for Win7 (which I assume, though you never stated so).

Regards

Pete

[blave]

I spent some time trying to find newer drivers for the Eight Buck Card, but had no luck. Actually Device Manager says that the two drivers that are associated with it are by Microsoft...

So I took the back panel off of the PFC stack and disconnected the ribbon cable from the PC board that's on the back of the DME unit, which is what gives what I thought were spurious messages. Fired up the unit, and it worked fine (other than the DME section being dark of course -- but the messages were still being generated!). Plugged the ribbon cable back in, and it worked fine. Still works fine... I have no idea what I did other than re-connecting the serial cable to the back of the stack after re-attaching the back panel. Could all of this have been caused by some corrosion on the DB-9 connector pins? (rhetorical question)

The messages are still generated, but perhaps that's just what the stack does. I don't recall it doing this before on my old system but until recently I hadn't touched FSX in quite a long time so maybe I just forgot.

Pete, thanks for your assistance while I tried to get this sorted!

cheers,

Dave.

[Pete Dowson]

I spent some time trying to find newer drivers for the Eight Buck Card, but had no luck. Actually Device Manager says that the two drivers that are associated with it are by Microsoft..

That doesn't sound right!.

So I took the back panel off of the PFC stack and disconnected the ribbon cable from the PC board that's on the back of the DME unit, which is what gives what I thought were spurious messages. Fired up the unit, and it worked fine (other than the DME section being dark of course -- but the messages were still being generated!). Plugged the ribbon cable back in, and it worked fine. Still works fine... I have no idea what I did other than re-connecting the serial cable to the back of the stack after re-attaching the back panel. Could all of this have been caused by some corrosion on the DB-9 connector pins? (rhetorical question)

No idea -- but how come it worked fine on your XP machine? I thought you'd eliminated possible hardware / connection problems that way?

Maybe it's related to the voltage/power provided on the XP machines serial signals compared to those on the other ... but both the USB adapter AND the PCI card?

Regards

Pete

[blave]

Pete, it's a mystery to me.

One thing I didn't mention initially (because I didn't really think about it until the wee hours this morning) is that the wall wart that I used with the stack for years died at some point over the last few months, and so I'm now using another one that i repurposed (by reversing the polarity of the plug, since for some reason that only PFC knows they use a negative-tip scheme). This morning I was wondering if maybe the wart wasn't putting out enough juice and so the stack was on the hairy edge of almost working (and sometimes it *would* partially light up when I was in FSX). But now it works with that same wall wart, so.... HellIdonknow 8^) . The point is, it works now!

---

BTW you may not recall this but I'm the guy that, way back when, asked if you could get the stack's "power" to be controlled by FSX's avionics switch. Lo and behold you did it in short order, and every time I turn on the stack with one of my GoFlight switches I think of that. Much appreciated!

cheers,

Dave.

[Pete Dowson]

The point is, it works now!

Well, that's really good then. :-)

Regards

Pete