Calibration

[gfd]

Greetings

 

I understand that Pete is on vacation at the moment. Perhaps I can get some help in the meantime. I use FSUIPC to assign all of my axes. All axes entries in FSX are deleted. There are a limited number of options when the send direct to FSUIPC radio button is selected. I read on another post that you can just calibrate in FSUIPC and assign elsewhere.

 

Is this true? If so, how would I go about it? What if I assigned an axis direct to FSUIPC as a throttle? What if I then reassigned it as an FSX control? Would it maintain its calibration? I realize that different axes calibrate differently, but throttles have min/max/filter/reverse. That's what I'm after.

 

Perhaps I misunderstood the capability. I have not been able to find an answer in the documentation. Any help is appreciated.

 

Thanks

Graham

[stuarth]

Hi Graham,

I always used to configure my throttles in FSX and then fine tune the calibration in fsuipc, always seemed to work OK.

I think from reading various posts that it it is probably better to disable the throttles etc in FSX and only adding through fsuipc. You can then configure different axis per aircraft. I will probably try to do this more in the future.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,

Stuart

[Pete Dowson]

I understand that Pete is on vacation at the moment

 

No, I got back a few days ago and caught up with the support backlog.

 

 I use FSUIPC to assign all of my axes. All axes entries in FSX are deleted.

 

Best not to delete any assignments in FS but simply to disable controllers. If you don't do this you can sometimes find that FS has re-made its automatic assignments because it sometimes sees the controller as newly connected.

 

There are a limited number of options when the send direct to FSUIPC radio button is selected.

 

 

The full name of that option is "direct to FSUIPC calibration". ALL of the controls which CAN be calibrated are listed. There's no point in sending ones which can't be calibrated or they'll just go no where! The normal FS control assignment option lists all of the controls including those not calibrated.

 

I read on another post that you can just calibrate in FSUIPC and assign elsewhere. Is this true?

 

Yes, of course. Calibration in FSUIPC works on FS controls not on "axes" as such. When you assign in FSUIPC or in FS then all you are doing is matching an external device axis to an FS control. FSUIPC intercepts controls for calibration whether assigned in FSUIPC (by any method, not just "direct") or in FS. In fact the calibration facilities existed in FSUIPC long before any assignment facilities were added.

 

The "direct to calibration" method of assignment is just more efficient, because instead of the assignment to a control it sends the input value directly to the appropriate calibration function which then sends the control to FS. All other methods go indirectly -- to FS first then to FSUIPC for calibration then back to FS. Each of that involves extra messages in the Windows message queue, or via SimConnect.

 

The only drawback to the direct method is that it can defeat the programming in some add-on aircraft, notably those by PMDG, where you generally need to assign to the normal FS controls (in FSUIPC or in FS, it doesn't matter).

 

If so, how would I go about it?

 

What? Assigning an axis to a control? Just in the normal way, either in FSUIPC (all of the FS controls are available in the dropdown, not just those provided by FS itself in its assignments), or in FS if you don't want to assign in FSUIPC.

 

What if I assigned an axis direct to FSUIPC as a throttle? What if I then reassigned it as an FSX control? Would it maintain its calibration?

 

Calibration is independent of assignment, as I said.

 

I realize that different axes calibrate differently, but throttles have min/max/filter/reverse. That's what I'm after.

 

So why are you questioning the way of assigning? It's what happens to the control after assignment which is important.

 

FS itself does not offer any assignable controls for throttle which include the reverse range. There are such controls but just not assignable in FS. FSUIPC provides the reverse zones in its calibration facilities. There are whole sections of the User Guide about this so I'm not reprinting it all here. Please refer to the calibration chapter. Suffice to say that you can assign throttles however you like then use the calibration options to get your reverse zones. Those occur in the 4 throttles tab, but you can map a single throttle to the 4 if you wish. It is all there, and all documented.

 

Perhaps I misunderstood the capability. I have not been able to find an answer in the documentation. Any help is appreciated.

 

Well it is all explained in the documentation I assure you. Have you looked in the User Guide? It really does sound like you have not. There are separate chapters on Axes and on Calibration. they are separate subjects for the reasons i state above, and as also explained in the User Guide.

 

Pete

[gfd]

Thanks a lot for clearing this up.  As noted above, I use FS Force to control force feedback. It is far superior to the FSX implementation. It also includes realistic elevator trim adjustment. If I turn off the controllers in FSX, I also turn off FS Force.

 

I only use FSX for keyboard assignments. I should probably move these over to FSUIPC. Just haven't gotten around to it. A blank standard.xml file would be easy to revert to.

 

I must apologize for missing the obvious. Of course you are not going to add a control that cannot be realistically calibrated on an axis. I have indeed read the user guide; as well as the advanced guide and the WideFS guide. I was looking for information on something I thought I had missed...and it turned out as you have explained above, that I was looking for something non-existent, given that I had twisted the intent. I suspect I'm guilty of getting sidetracked by forum posts and reading more into the documentation than I should.

 

One final question: I don't have any duplicate FSX/FSUIPC assignments. But what about the calibration settings in FSX? Should they be zeroed out (my current settings) so as not to interfere with FSUIPC? Or does FSUIPC even care if the axes are assigned and calibrated in FSUIPC?

 

Hope you enjoyed your vacation.

 

Thanks

Graham

[Pete Dowson]

If I turn off the controllers in FSX, I also turn off FS Force.

 

Okay. I didn't know that -- best, then, to assign in FS. There's really no problem with that provided you don't need different assignments for different aircraft -- you can only do that in FSUIPC.

 

But what about the calibration settings in FSX? Should they be zeroed out (my current settings) so as not to interfere with FSUIPC?

 

 

 

FSUIPC calibration operates on the final values for the controls, just before they go into FS's sim engine (SIM1).

 

FS itself doesn't offer axis calibration -- that's done in Windows which uses the drivers from the installed controllers or the default Windows ones. You should certainly calibrate in Windows properly first. The FS calibration is to do with matching the controller inputs to the desired effect in FS, it is NOT hardware calibration.

 

The only thing to ensure in FS is that the null zone slider is off (full left) and the sensitivity slider is full on (full right). Either of these will otherwise just limit the range of numbers the hardware axis provides to FSUIPC.

 

Pete

[gfd]

Thanks for the reply. I have a different profile for each aircraft I fly and so use FSUICP.

 

Perhaps this time I will be clearer about my intention. I was hoping I would be able to do a 'generic' calibration in FSUIPC on my throttles. I have 3 Saitek Proflight throttles used for various purposes. The throttle driver caused a bunch of BSOD in Windows 7. The installation became corrupt and so I was forced to rollback to a previous install. I have uninstalled all Saitek drivers. The throttle pots are a bit noisy. I would like to have the noise filter in your calibration tab 'always on' regardless of how I assign a throttle lever in a given profile. The only 2 ways I can think of doing it are:

 

-do a non profile specific calibration for Throttle with the filter on. Then assign to the throttle lever in a given profile. Assuming the assignment is not contained in Direct to FSUIPC Calibration items, will the profile inherit the filter? Or will that only happen if I assign a Direct to FSUIPC Calibration item?

-set the throttle lever to a Direct to FSUIPC Calibration item. Calibrate the axis and then use the right side of the assignment tab to override the item on the left side. This is not elegant, but would it work, or just gum up the works?

 

If there is an easy solution I've missed, please just give me a dope slap and tell me where to look.

 

Will adjust the sensitvity slide full right.

 

Thanks again

Graham

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for the reply. I have a different profile for each aircraft I fly and so use FSUICP.

 

If you want different assignments for each profile you have to assign in FSUIPC because FSX doesn't offer different assignments for different aircraft. But if you assign in FSUIPC you can't have your FS Force working you said. So you have to make a choice it seems.

 

Perhaps this time I will be clearer about my intention. I was hoping I would be able to do a 'generic' calibration in FSUIPC on my throttles. I have 3 Saitek Proflight throttles used for various purposes. The throttle driver caused a bunch of BSOD in Windows 7. The installation became corrupt and so I was forced to rollback to a previous install. I have uninstalled all Saitek drivers. The throttle pots are a bit noisy. I would like to have the noise filter in your calibration tab 'always on' regardless of how I assign a throttle lever in a given profile. The only 2 ways I can think of doing it are:

 

-do a non profile specific calibration for Throttle with the filter on. Then assign to the throttle lever in a given profile. Assuming the assignment is not contained in Direct to FSUIPC Calibration items, will the profile inherit the filter? Or will that only happen if I assign a Direct to FSUIPC Calibration item?-set the throttle lever to a Direct to FSUIPC Calibration item. Calibrate the axis and then use the right side of the assignment tab to override the item on the left side. This is not elegant, but would it work, or just gum up the works?

 

As I keep saying, the calibration options are completely and utterly independent of how you assign! vHow many more times must I say this. assign in whatever way you like. The calibration options work on the controls in FS, not on the axes at all! 

 

And the right-hand side of the assignment is to assign different functions to different parts of the range of an axis. it is not relevant to anything you want at all!

 

If there is an easy solution I've missed, please just give me a dope slap and tell me where to look.

 

The thing you are missing is what i keep repeating. CALIBRATION IN FSUIPC IS INDEPENDENT OF ASSIGNMENT. FULL STOP! Sorry ot have to shout but I don't seem to be getting through to you at all. :-(

 

Just assign in whatever method suits you. Calibrate using whatever options you want. There's nothing magic, it is all as easy as that!

 

Pete

 

[gfd]

Thanks for the reply. I really have to apologize for not getting it. I certainly don't want to torment you, so I'll try and boil it down to a quick question. If that doesn't get it done, I'll just say thanks and leave you alone.

 

As stated before, the Saitek throttles are noisy. I appreciate that you have added a noise filter in your calibration pages. I notice that the axis values are more stable when the filter is active. I just want to be able to apply the noise filter to an axis no matter how it is assigned in a given profile; and I don't know how to do that unless I am assigning a control contained in the Direct to FSUIPC list.

 

When I calibrate a controller in Windows, there are no profiles or assignments. The controller is calibrated and that's it. Now that I have deleted the Saitek drivers, I am unable to test/calibrate the throttle in Windows. That's not your issue, but after having the driver pooch my installation, well...once is enough. I am missing something here. I am not being obtuse, nor am I a total idiot. Just ignorant.

 

Anyway, thanks for reading this. Have a good morning.

 

Graham

[Pete Dowson]

As stated before, the Saitek throttles are noisy. I appreciate that you have added a noise filter in your calibration pages. I notice that the axis values are more stable when the filter is active. I just want to be able to apply the noise filter to an axis no matter how it is assigned in a given profile; and I don't know how to do that unless I am assigning a control contained in the Direct to FSUIPC list.

 

The filter option is in the Calibration part of FSUIPC. It doesn't matter WHERE or HOW you assign the controls, the calibration is separate. I have said this many times now and you still don't read what I say. Just assign in whatever way you like, then go and calibrate, and, yes, if you wish, set the Filter option. Why is this so difficult for you?

 

Pete

[gfd]

Here's where I get stuck. You have a limited number of assignments that go directly to FSUIPC calibration. The reasoning makes sense. If you assign to one of those and then go to the calibration tab; you can assign upper and lower limits, modify the slope, etc. I get all that, and it is excellent.

 

But what if I have a profile where I select a control which is sent to FS as a normal axis? There is no way to calibrate the axis in the calibration tab, as there is no corresponding entry. That makes sense. So, say that I have programmed the heading bug to an axis on a throttle. There is no corresponding calibration entry in the calibration tab. I can't imagine why there would be. This is just an example. What if I want to use the noise filter on this axis, in this profile, for this control; given there is no calibration entry in the main form?

 

Can I manually add calibration values to entries in the INI file, for controls that cannot be calibrated in the IU?

 

I hope I have done a better job of explaining where I stumbled. You know, I have been able to do some interesting things with your program and the comprehensive documentation that accompanies it. I have no idea why I can't figure this out.

 

Thanks

Graham

[Pete Dowson]

Here's where I get stuck. You have a limited number of assignments that go directly to FSUIPC calibration. The reasoning makes sense. If you assign to one of those and then go to the calibration tab; you can assign upper and lower limits, modify the slope, etc. I get all that, and it is excellent.

 

But you get the same facilities no matter how or where you assign. All of the control surface axes go to calibration, just by different routes.

 

The "direct to calibration" assignment is only different in that it bypasses FS completely.before calibration.

 

Calibration and all the facilities you want to use there was a feature of FSUIPC long before there were ever any assignment facilities.

 

But what if I have a profile where I select a control which is sent to FS as a normal axis? There is no way to calibrate the axis in the calibration tab, as there is no corresponding entry

 

All normal axes which are worth calibrating can be calibrated NO MATTER HOW OR WHERE YOU ASSIGN THEM!

 

That makes sense. So, say that I have programmed the heading bug to an axis on a throttle. There is no corresponding calibration entry in the calibration tab. I can't imagine why there would be. This is just an example. 

 

Heading bugs aren't calibratable, full stop. It would make no sense to. They are not continuous values to start with. I can't imagine anyone ever wanting to do such a thing! You want "heading bug increment" and "heading bug decrement". Much more sensible. Otherwise, for example, what happens when you get to the end of the lever's travel?  And there is really no way ever of getting the output of the sorts of pots they use on a joystick to give you 360 different and consistent values, no matter how much smoothing or calibration you do.

 

Can I manually add calibration values to entries in the INI file, for controls that cannot be calibrated in the IU?

 

There are no parameters in the INI for controls which cannot be calibrated. No keywords for them, no entries, nothing. If you assign to "Heading Bug Set" you are responsible for making sure the value which is supplied is correct for the heading bug. i.e. 0-359. Those controls are mainly for use by programs which want to set the heading bug directly. The only way really to do it from an axis is to assign the axis to a Lua plug-in program which then converts the values coming in from the axis into 0-359, probably using a table of 360 ranges. Not that you'd ever be likely to find an axis which would reliably give you so many values.

 

Pete

[gfd]

Thanks for turning the light on in my head. I understood why one could calibrate the direct to FSUIPC. I got stuck on why one could not, with send to FS. I suppose I was thinking that the calibration function in FSUIPC was analogous to the Windows and driver specific utilities. Please, if I've opened up another can of worms...ignore me :oops:

 

On a brighter note...after getting some limitations from you and using the documentation, I've managed to create a fully functional, custom lua setup for Airbus X; complete with a WideFS button screen. Thanks for that and everything else that FSUIPC makes possible.

 

Graham

[Pete Dowson]

Thanks for turning the light on in my head. I understood why one could calibrate the direct to FSUIPC. I got stuck on why one could not, with send to FS. I suppose I was thinking that the calibration function in FSUIPC was analogous to the Windows and driver specific utilities. Please, if I've opened up another can of worms...ignore me :oops:

 

On a brighter note...after getting some limitations from you and using the documentation, I've managed to create a fully functional, custom lua setup for Airbus X; complete with a WideFS button screen. Thanks for that and everything else that FSUIPC makes possible.

 

Okay. Till the next set of questions, good flying! ;-)

 

Pete