GC slows down when visibility is low. WideFS problem?

[Silvio Lottanti]

Hi Pete!

First of all thank you for making my hobby possible with widefs and Fsuipc! I have a problem with my setup in my homecockpit.

Here it is:

I have the latest version of FSUIPC and WideFS (both registerd) and the latest version of the PM GC software. I run a 7 PC network (Server with FS2000/Win 98SE, 3 WinXP, 2 Win98SE and 1 Win2000).

The problem is when I set the visibility in FS2000 to 2 miles, the GC reacts 20 - 30 seconds later. For example: When I make a turn, the PFD shows me this turn after 20-30 seconds.

I have the same problem when I fly throug a cloud layer. In the clouds, the PM software slows down and is about 20-30 seconds behind the actual flightposition. The same problem occures when I climb higher than 25000ft with clear weather and no clouds.

Some times theres is the same delay with unlimited visibility and no clouds set.

I've already asked the PM Group about help, but they said that the GC software is at the end of the chain. It only displays the data it gets from WideFS.

I have this problem since I update my setup with the latest Widefs/FSUIPC/PM Software. Everything worked fine befor the update.

I hope you can help me!

Thanks in advance!

Greetings from Switzerland

Silvio Lottanti

[Pete Dowson]

There is really nothing in FSUIPC or WideFS that knows or cares what the visibility may be when dealing with data being sent. It sounds very strange indeed. Normally, with limited visibility, FS2000 (especially) runs much faster, so you'd expect better performance, not worse.

I really cannot imagine how the GC can be 20-30 seconds behind! Where is all the data for 20-30 seconds worth of flight being stored whilst waiting for the GC to read it? Do you have some sort of switch or hub with a lot of memory doing this? It is hard to imagine, isn't it?

You don't say what versions of FSUIPC and WideFS you were using before you upgraded to the latest, but if you were using a very old version of WideFS (before 5.00) then you probably need to delete most of the parameters in trhe WideFS INI files -- there were lots of tweaks using before version 5. You should find Version 6 works best with default parameters in any case.

Otherwise, you need to look at the WideFS logs and see what is going on. As I say, I cannot imagine where the data is waiting, it seems absolutely incredible. 20-30 seconds worth of data is a *lot*!

Pete

[Silvio Lottanti]

Pete,

Thank you for the fast reply!

Yes, I know it sounds very strange...I will take a look in the wideserver.log file and let you know, what version exactely I'm using. Enrico told me that I should mention the version, but his email came 2 min. after I posted this message.

I will let you know asap what version of widefs and fsuipc I'm using.

Is it alright with you, when I post my .log here so that you can take a look at it? Thank you for the support. I'll get back to you soon.

Greetings from Switzerland!

Silvio Lottanti

[Pete Dowson]

I will take a look in the wideserver.log file

Not just the server log, but also the WideClient logs!

I will let you know asap what version of widefs and fsuipc I'm using.

AND which versions you were using "before", please.

BTW did I misunderstand your last message? It occurred to me that, rather than saying that your GC was running 20-30 seconds behind FS, you might simply have meant that it STOPPED responding for 20-30 seconds, then continued but then back in time? I really would be amazed and baffled if it was constantly running 20-30 seconds late, as where could all the data be stored?

Is it alright with you, when I post my .log here so that you can take a look at it?

Well, if it looks like it might be large it would be best to ZIP it and attach it.

Incidentally, I no longer had FS2000 installed, but as I had plenty of room on my hard disk I just installed FS2000 Pro on the same PC as my FS2002 and FS2004 (a P4 3.2GHz). I copied over all my added FS modules, including FSUIPC 3.08, WideServer 6.10 and PFC 1.62, and all their INI files and so on. Flying around Meigs with everything on full and at 1920 x 480 x 32 resolution, I get 66 fps everywhere! Moreover, WideClients on three other PCs are getting the same frame rates and the PM GC is as smooth as silk!

I tried putting on loads of clouds, and reducing the visibilty severely, and this had no adverse effect whatsoever. So it is looking like a network configuration problem you have.

As well as the logs you'd better show me the Server and Client INI files too, please, and tell me what hardware you are using -- processor speed, mainly.

Thanks,

Pete

[Silvio Lottanti]

Pete,

Here is the server.log

Yes, GC runs 20-30 seconds behind FS2000. Sometimes it stoppes and jumps.

I will post the Wideclient.log right now.

Thanks, thanks thanks for taking the time!

cheers

Silvio

********* WideServer.DLL Log [version 6.10] *********

Using blocksize guide of 4096 bytes

Date (dmy): 23/07/00, Time 16:53:44.430: Server name is IBM

62073 Initialising server socket now

62073 ServerNode=0.0.1536.46377.48348

62442 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

62521 Connected to computer "PFD2" (skt=508)

63091 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

63211 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-UNC6WR" (skt=512)

63415 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

63536 Connected to computer "PFD1" (skt=516)

63622 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=520)

63622 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=524)

63622 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63622 Initialising server socket now

63680 Incoming read on unconnected socket -- Ignored! (skt=520)

63681 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

63721 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

63721 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

63721 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=520)

63765 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-UNC6WR" (skt=508)

63765 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63765 Initialising server socket now

63765 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63765 Initialising server socket now

63777 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

63777 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

63777 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

63777 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=520)

63777 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63777 Initialising server socket now

63777 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63777 Initialising server socket now

63777 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63777 Initialising server socket now

63846 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

63846 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

63892 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63892 Initialising server socket now

63897 Incoming read on unconnected socket -- Ignored! (skt=508)

63898 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

63898 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

63898 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

63898 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63898 Initialising server socket now

63898 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63898 Initialising server socket now

63958 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

63958 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

63958 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

63958 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

63958 Initialising server socket now

63958 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64055 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64055 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

64055 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=520)

64055 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64055 Initialising server socket now

64055 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64055 Initialising server socket now

64111 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64111 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64111 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

64111 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64111 Initialising server socket now

64111 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64111 Initialising server socket now

64171 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64171 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64171 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

64216 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64216 Initialising server socket now

64216 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64216 Initialising server socket now

64228 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64228 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64228 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

64276 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=520)

64276 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64276 Initialising server socket now

64276 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64276 Initialising server socket now

64276 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64276 Initialising server socket now

64295 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64295 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64295 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

64295 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=520)

64295 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64295 Initialising server socket now

64295 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64295 Initialising server socket now

64295 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64295 Initialising server socket now

64365 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64411 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64454 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-UNC6WR" (skt=508)

64454 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

64455 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=520)

64455 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64455 Initialising server socket now

64455 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64455 Initialising server socket now

64468 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64468 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64468 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64468 Initialising server socket now

64521 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64521 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64521 Accept() failed! [Error=10035] Operation would block (skt=504)

64521 Initialising server socket now

64571 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

64615 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=512)

64701 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-YUKLGI" (skt=508)

64701 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

64703 Connected to computer "PFD1" (skt=512)

64781 Connected to computer "PFD2" (skt=516)

65151 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=520)

65231 Connected to computer "MCDUEICAS" (skt=520)

65315 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=524)

65400 Connected to computer "NDCPT" (skt=524)

65571 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=528)

65651 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-UNC6WR" (skt=528)

118772 Client socket disconnected at Client: removing (skt=524)

119961 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=524)

120047 Connected to computer "NDCPT" (skt=524)

130225 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=532)

130267 Client socket disconnected at Client: removing (skt=528)

130350 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-UNC6WR" (skt=532)

311690 Client socket unused for too long: removing (skt=508)

311690 Client socket unused for too long: removing (skt=516)

311690 Client socket unused for too long: removing (skt=524)

311690 Client socket unused for too long: removing (skt=532)

312298 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=500)

312395 Connected to computer "PFD2" (skt=500)

328159 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

328209 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

328265 Connected to computer "NDCPT" (skt=508)

328300 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-UNC6WR" (skt=516)

328776 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=524)

328875 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-YUKLGI" (skt=524)

364247 Client socket unused for too long: removing (skt=508)

365730 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

365810 Connected to computer "NDCPT" (skt=508)

438718 Client socket unused for too long: removing (skt=508)

438718 Client socket unused for too long: removing (skt=516)

438718 Client socket unused for too long: removing (skt=524)

439715 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=508)

439758 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-UNC6WR" (skt=508)

441627 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=516)

441757 Connected to computer "SIMSOLUT-YUKLGI" (skt=516)

443988 Incoming connection Accepted ok (skt=524)

444076 Connected to computer "NDCPT" (skt=524)

[Silvio Lottanti]

Pete,

I forgot the main thing, sorry.

Ok, stepp by stepp.

You saw the server.log befor. In the client.log, it always makes an entry that the connection was close by the server and that it will reconnect.

I dont' know the version befor, sorry but I use Widefs versio 6.1 and Fsuipc version 3.08. I just reinstalled everything. I have now more problems than befor. The eicas shows no engine data and on the pfd there is the warning "No avionics". But i can fly like a bird...strange...

I run Fs2000 on a PIII500 Mhz (please don't laugh;-) i know its a weak one:-)!) Frame rate is about 20 and when I add 2 miles visibility it goes up to 50! But the GC starts delaying...

Here is my Server.ini file

[Config]

Port=8002

NoStoppedRestarts=Yes

usetcpip=no

ServerNode=0.0.1536.46377.48348

; -----------------------------------------------

[user]

Log=Errors+

followd by the keysends, but they work ok.

Hope this is enough...Thanks

Silvio

[Pete Dowson]

Yes, GC runs 20-30 seconds behind FS2000. Sometimes it stoppes and jumps.

There's really no way it can run 20-30 seconds behind FShow can the data take so long to go through the wires? Where is it being stored? That makes no sense.

The log shows many errors, really horrible. You are trying to use IPX/SPX on a mixture of Win98SE, WinXP and Win2000 PCs. I don't know anyone who has been successful with that. As I say in the WideFS documentation, if you want to stick to IPX/SPX then it is best to make it Win98SE all round. Otherwise, I think it would really be better to remove all protocols from your whole Network except TCP/IP and use only that.

Also, what sort of Network is it? 10 or 100 mbps? Do you use a switch or hub? If it is a slow 10mbps then it is likely that all the recent versions of WideFS are too fast for it. They try to equal the FS frame rate.

Regards,

Pete

[Silvio Lottanti]

Pete,

You're right, maybe I have to change something in my network. I will use Win98SE on all PC and will get back to you asap. I hope this will work.

Believe me, there is a delay of 20-30 seconds. Mainly on the XP clients. Maybe this is a XP. I try Win98SE and let you know the result.

Thank yo very much for your help!

Greetings from Switzerland

Silvio Lottanti

[Pete Dowson]

I dont' know the version befor, sorry but I use Widefs versio 6.1 and Fsuipc version 3.08. I just reinstalled everything.

Sorry, then I have less idea about what to say. If your previous versions were WideFS 6.02 and FSUIPC 3.07 then, as there've been no Network changes between those, it would point to a hardware problem. When did you last actually INSTALL WideFS and FSUIPC, before this "upgrade"? I need some idea of what you used when you managed to make it work.

Quite honestly, with your mix of PCs and operating systems I am surprised you ever got IPX/SPX to work!

I run Fs2000 on a PIII500 Mhz (please don't laugh;-) i know its a weak one:-)!) Frame rate is about 20 and when I add 2 miles visibility it goes up to 50! But the GC starts delaying...

It is likely that is the reason -- 50 fps is too much for your 500 MHz PC -- WideServer is trying to send too much data and it is blocking. The GC will stop, NOT delay, and it will reconnect. If there is a 30 second delay you must have some big buffers somewhere. From your log it looks like it will stop, and start, then stop, and so on.

Hope this is enough...Thanks

Where's the Client INI file?

I think all that is happening is that at frame rates like 50 there is either not enough power on your PC to push all that data out to 6 clients 50 times per second (that's 300 blocks per second), or maybe there is not enough capacity on the Network.

Unlike old versions of WideFS, which simply maintained a steady, but slow, pace, this new one is designed to maintain the same frame rates on your clients as on your main FS PC. By synchronizing instrument updates with the FS frames the best smoothness is possible.

With FS2002 and FS2004 there's a "frame rate limiter" in the Options, and for WideFS users that is set to, say, 20 or 30 or similar, whatever is okay both on that PC and all the clients.

I think you should be using TCP/IP in any case, as on a mixed operating system setup like yours I didn't even think IPX/SPX was viable. I could never get it to work properly here. TCP/IP is easier -- a bit slower, but the last thing you seem to need is speed! -- and smoother.

If you have a 10mbps network, change to 100mbps. If you are using a Hub try a Switch.

But mainly you probably need to slow WideFS down. Without a frame limiter in FS2000 it isn't so easy. Experiment with WideServer's "AutoUpdateTime" parameter -- the default of 13 milliseconds is too small for you (up to 80 fps). Try 100 first (that may make things jerky in the clients as it allows only 10 fps), then reduce it, in 10's say, till you get those problems again, then put it up again. You should be able to find a value which works -- probably around 40 or 50. Please check the WideFS documentation on this parameter.

You may want to reduce the maximum block size too, but don't do both at the same time!

There's a facility in WideClient to show the client frame rate in the title bar. If you enable that (temporarily) then you should see, with your current set up, WideFS trying to match FS's frame rate. I don't know what Client PCs you have, but maybe the frame rate is too high for them as well as the Network?

WideFS also logs the frame rates at the end of the Logs, when you close down.

Regards,

Pete

[Silvio Lottanti]

Pete,

Sorry for my late answer.

I will try your hints next week. Then I will setup my network only with Win98SE on every PC. I will change to TCP/IP. I hope this will do it. Otherwise I will try your suggestions and play a bit with WideFS.

Thank you for the great support!

Greetings from Switzerland

Silvio Lottanti