Double Events Driver Mystery

[Bitswap]

Greetings,

 

I really can't believe I cannot find anything on this subject through my searches of this site. I can't be the only one having this problem, or maybe it is so basic that I missed it. Anyway, here I go.

 

Setup: evaluating FSUIPC4, Win7, FSX fresh install, SPAD 0.5.1, Saitek Radio Panel, no Saitek drivers or hardware (yet), verified no keyboard or 'joystick' generated events for the "Active/Standby" button on the 2/3D FSX panel, default Cessna 172sp.

 

First I plug in the Saitek Radio Panel usb, after which Win7 automatically installs a driver. If I open FSX at this point, the Radio Panel actually works but the tuning knobs are VERY sensitive. Where Win7 got the driver is anyone's guess. When I look in the Device Manager, it shows as a 'generic' Human Interface Device and there are no errors. At this point, the Radio Panel is usable and functions properly in FSX.

 

Whatever driver Win7 installed is throwing an event when I press the "Active/Standby" Radio "Button". All is good. I installed no drivers at this point, FSUIPC and SPAD have NOT been installed. By the way, I'm concentrating on the Button as an example, but ALL knobs and buttons are throwing two events later on.

 

I then install FSUIPC4 (evaluation edition) and SPAD. No errors are detected and using default configurations. After launching FSX, I now get double throws on the Button. When I set SPAD to do nothing, it's back to normal pre-spad operation. I suspect the default Win7 Driver is throwing an event, and SPAD > FSUIPC4 is throwing one too. The end result is it is impossible to switch the Standby frequency to Active because of the two events. Make sense? The first throw set Standby to Active, the second throw sets another Standby to Active.

 

I KNOW it's a driver problem and FSUIPC and SPAD are working as advertised. But, how to I identify the Radio Panel and set the driver to use the SPAD driver? It's almost impossible to tell which HID is for the radio... they're all Generic and use MS drivers. GRRRR!

 

I gave it a another try, installing the SPAD drivers first, turning off Windows Automatic Driver Installation, then installing the Panel, no luck. I may have to live with the Win7 / Saitek drivers, at least they work.

 

Thanks in advance,

Bit

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete Dowson]

First I plug in the Saitek Radio Panel usb, after which Win7 automatically installs a driver. If I open FSX at this point, the Radio Panel actually works but the tuning knobs are VERY sensitive. Where Win7 got the driver is anyone's guess. When I look in the Device Manager, it shows as a 'generic' Human Interface Device and there are no errors. At this point, the Radio Panel is usable and functions properly in FSX.

 

I don't know Saitek devices like this, but the panel will be a standard HID device for sure. But there must be some driver which is interfacing to FS and sending the correct controls. And it doesn't get installed with Windows, so it must have got onto your system at some time beforehand.  An INF file would have been installed which links the USB-obtaned identification of the device to the driver and Windows would automatically associate them from that.

 

 then install FSUIPC4 (evaluation edition) and SPAD. No errors are detected and using default configurations. After launching FSX, I now get double throws on the Button. When I set SPAD to do nothing, it's back to normal pre-spad operation. I suspect the default Win7 Driver is throwing an event, and SPAD > FSUIPC4 is throwing one too.

 

 

Yes. You don't want two drivers trying to do the same thing.

 

I KNOW it's a driver problem and FSUIPC and SPAD are working as advertised. But, how to I identify the Radio Panel and set the driver to use the SPAD driver? It's almost impossible to tell which HID is for the radio... they're all Generic and use MS drivers. GRRRR!

 

 

I wrote a program called HidScanner which was made to provide Lua programmers with enough information to write their own HID driver plug-ins using the HID functions in FSUIPC's COM library. Try that. You'll find it in the Download Links subforum -- useful programs thread I think.

 

I gave it a another try, installing the SPAD drivers first, turning off Windows Automatic Driver Installation, then installing the Panel, no luck. I may have to live with the Win7 / Saitek drivers, at least they work.

 

 

I assume you've tried uninstalling the device and driver from the Windows device manager? That would be my first step. Then just try using SPAD.

 

Otherwise, if nothing else, perhaps either SPAD or Saitek support forums might help?

 

Pete

[Bitswap]

Thanks for the response Pete.

 

I have identified the issue and am now trying to find a solution. You helped a lot when you said 'inf' and got me on the correct track!

 

There are no 'drivers', per sae, from Saitek or SPAD for these devices. The drivers are HID/USB input devices and always use input.inf. That's how Windows 7 found and installed them.

 

Saitek uses SaiFlightSimX, which I need for the Flight Instrument Display Panels, to send calls via SimConnect to the device's driver.

 

SPAD uses FSUIPC to send calls to that device as well.

 

Oddly enough, when you install the program for the radio from Saitek, it installs SaiPanels.exe as an addon in the exe.xml file. One would think SaiFlightSimX would handle the Flight Display Panels and SaiPanels would handle the Radio, Multi and Switch panels. With SaiPanels disabled, SaiFlightSimX takes over and is causing the problem. There isn't anything in SaiFlightSimX.xml that remotely looks like it for the radios, and executing the file with /help, /?, etc doesn't bring up any command-line options (why am I not surprised by this?)

 

For now, the only way for SPAD/FSUIPC to only handle the Radio is to disable these in SaiFlightSimX either with a command-line option or in it's xml configuration file. If I turn it off, I lose the display panels for my six-pack. I have submitted a ticket to  Saitek / Mad Catz on this but don't expect anything that fixes it.... I'll post here if the issue is resolved.

[Pete Dowson]

There are no 'drivers', per sae, from Saitek or SPAD for these devices. The drivers are HID/USB input devices and always use input.inf. That's how Windows 7 found and installed them.

 

The things I would call "drivers" are those that read the USB data and write to FS. Windows itself does not know about FS and certainly does not know about the things the panel is used for. The software which knows that is called the "driver". it isn't the low level standard Windows HID driver, I know that -- FSUIPC uses that for plug-in Lua programs using the HID functions in the COM library. My utility "HidScanner" uses it to read all the details of the HID device's configuration.

 

Saitek uses SaiFlightSimX, which I need for the Flight Instrument Display Panels, to send calls via SimConnect to the device's driver.

 

Aha, so you found it after all! Well done. But it doesn't "send calls via SimConnect to the device's driver". SimConnect is its interface to FS, in the same way as SPAD uses FSUIPC. The Saitek FSX driver will use the Windows HID interface, the one I was just talking about.

 

With SaiPanels disabled, SaiFlightSimX takes over and is causing the problem. There isn't anything in SaiFlightSimX.xml that remotely looks like it for the radios, and executing the file with /help, /?, etc doesn't bring up any command-line options (why am I not surprised by this?)

 

That's all a question for Saitke I think. You should be able to stop it. Maybe you can run SaiPanels again and disable it there? I know with GoFlight devices you can disable some things in their driver (but again not all).

 

For now, the only way for SPAD/FSUIPC to only handle the Radio is to disable these in SaiFlightSimX either with a command-line option or in it's xml configuration file. If I turn it off, I lose the display panels for my six-pack.

 

Can't you drive the display panels with SPAD as well, or does it only handle inputs?  Surely there must be many users in the same situation?

 

Pete

[Bitswap]

Can't you drive the display panels with SPAD as well, or does it only handle inputs?  Surely there must be many users in the same situation?

 

Pete

 

... And there are ...

 

Once I identified the offending program, finding a solution was 'easy'. Older SaiFlightSimX.exe programs didn't handle the Multi, Radio and Switch panels; this is something new added by Saitek and why SPAD/FSUIC was happy in 'the old days'. In those days SaiPanels.exe did this.

 

I don't expect a solution from Mad Catz on this because I don't think they have any motivation to solve this 'non-issue'. Somehow I think this torpedo is intentional and aimed directly at SPAD.

 

A solution exists but not readily available. It involved editing the binary to tame SaiFlightSimX. IF Mad Catz gives me a 'legal' solution to this, I'll post it here. SPAD doesn't handle the Displays at this time, but when they do, it's good-bye Saitek programs!

 

Bit