Joystick calibration does not react to lever axis movement

[Bopa Pier]

Equipment: All Saitek, (Rudder Pedals, Yoke, 2x Quadrants, Trimwheel 
Windows 10  & FSX Steam
After I succeeded to reinstall all the the lot, encountering many  problems, I now have a very last one with  FSUIPC 4.957b  when I try to get the flap settings axis  for the PMDG 738/9 NGX  working again through the joystick calibration section.  First thing I noticed is that the set figures do not change when I move the axis/ lever which I have been using for this purpose since 3 years under Windows 7 and FSX gold edition. In general I use this lever for mixture prop 1. and for the PMDG B738/9 in profile mode for the flap setting. The same lever axis for mixture for MAAM Dc3 works fine under present conditions, both via FSUIPC4 and FSX controls. (I use the "send direct to FS X method").  When checking the fsuipc.ini file I see that there are  some odd entries for flaps  and the De is set to Yes. I also tried to replaced the the figures with the one given as an example in the user guide to no avail ( and yes I did saved the file after editing it)
After several hours of repeating the procedure step by step in accordance with the  user guide, I see no other solution than to ask you for help. 
Thanks in advance

PS.  I checked the FAQ's and found a similar subject about erratic values for lever axis movement but  the answer Saitek has provided does not match with my problem.

[Pete Dowson]

50 minutes ago, Bopa Pier said:

First thing I noticed is that the set figures do not change when I move the axis/ lever which I have been using for this purpose since 3 years under Windows 7 and FSX gold edition. In general I use this lever for mixture prop 1. and for the PMDG B738/9 in profile mode for the flap setting. The same lever axis for mixture for MAAM Dc3 works fine under present conditions, both via FSUIPC4 and FSX controls. (I use the "send direct to FS X method"). 

This is confusing. Where are you seeing the "set figures do not change"? Is that in the axis assignment tab or the calibration tab? If in the axis assignment tab I need then to ask how it is possible that the "same lever axis for mixture for MAAM Dc3 works fine under present conditions, both via FSUIPC4 ..."?

53 minutes ago, Bopa Pier said:

When checking the fsuipc.ini file I see that there are  some odd entries for flaps  and the De is set to Yes.

Sorry, what is the "De"?

Maybe you need to show me the FSUIPC4.INI file, the one with your settings, so I can see what you've done? You can paste the text here in a message.

Pete

 

[Bopa Pier]

Hello Pete,
Thank you for your quick reply.
As per User Guide I used the Joystick Calibration tab subpage 6 "Flaps" .  Click on DT opens new window with  1 reset and 3 set  where  I find  the center values (?) 16379 below the rightmost set and 16380 next to the CL and Dt button. When I then start the procedure by moving the lever lever nothing happens i.e.  no figure value  variation.
Sorry for the De, should have been FlapsDetend=Yes
 As you see will see the FSUIPC4.ini I attach the FSUIPC4.INI file  after my last attempt.

Thank you for your quick reply

FSUIPC4.ini

[Pete Dowson]

You have no assignment to Flaps! In fact you have no axis assignments at all except, oddly, just for Gear:

0=0Z,256
1=0Z,U,6400,16383,66079,0    -{ Entering=GEAR_UP }-
2=0Z,D,-16384,-3901,66080,0    -{ Entering=GEAR_DOWN }-

You also have a strange line in the [JoystickCalibration.B737 NGX Flaps] section:

0=0X,256

which looks like it really belongs in an Axis section.

Also, you seem to have made some Flaps detente calibrations, as they are there:

FlapStarts=–16384, –16219, –15450, –12975, –6980, –573,4606,15600,16217
FlapEnds=–16256, –16200, –15417, –12950, –6950, –550,4644,15650,16384
Flaps=0,16380

Pete

 

[Bopa Pier]

Hello Pete,
The  flaps detente calibrations you see in my ini file are just copied from the example in the user guide into my file, the 0=0X,256 is also a manual input, just in case.... It was a last attempt to get the things working, although with not much hope of success, .
Just to make sure: you make all the settings under the joystick calibration tag  and no settings under the axis assignment tag.

Two more  Infos:
All the axis of the quadrant are now assigned via FSUIPC , that is #1 an #2 mixture and the gear,- no profile.  When I assign the flaps,-  profile  ticked, in the axis assignment window I see the value numbers varying along with the lever movement  I can even allot a setting for the 9 flaps settings up and down. This is however not according to the procedure described in the user manual  and it is expressively not recommended.
On the other hand when I assign the flaps settings in the calibration window I see no variation of the value numbers whatsoever when I move the levers back and forth.
You mention that I have "have no axis assignments at all except, oddly, just for Gear. Does that mean that prior to  set the detents under the joystick calibration, I have to assign the axis under the axis assignment tag??? In that case, Î must admit,   I have missed or misunderstood something in the manual.
I am a little upset because I managed to get the whole lot working some years ago.  I remember that it was a rather delicate matter, but that is unfortunately all what I remember. ( I am 73 and you know with age....
Pierre

[Pete Dowson]

1 hour ago, Bopa Pier said:

All the axis of the quadrant are now assigned via FSUIPC , that is #1 an #2 mixture and the gear,- no profile.  When I assign the flaps,-  profile  ticked, in the axis assignment window I see the value numbers varying along with the lever movement

The "B737 NGX Flaps" profile? Are you selecting the same profile in Calibration? Which actual "flaps" control are you assigning to?

1 hour ago, Bopa Pier said:

in the axis assignment window I see the value numbers varying along with the lever movement  I can even allot a setting for the 9 flaps settings up and down.

Do you mean the range assignment setting options on the right-hand side of the assignment tab? If so then, yes, you shouldn't need to use those at all for axis calibration. They are to allow other controls, non-axis types usually, or even FSUIPC offset events, to be programmed. One common use for those is to allow an axis to be used as a Gear level, with GEAR UP and GEAR DOWN programmed for regions of the axis movement.

1 hour ago, Bopa Pier said:

On the other hand when I assign the flaps settings in the calibration window I see no variation of the value numbers whatsoever when I move the levers back and forth.

Best to c same profile first.

I do really need to see your INI file again. Obviously you've changed it since the last one you posted.

1 hour ago, Bopa Pier said:

You mention that I have "have no axis assignments at all except, oddly, just for Gear. Does that mean that prior to  set the detents under the joystick calibration, I have to assign the axis under the axis assignment tag??? In that case, Î must admit,   I have missed or misunderstood something in the manual.

Er, unless you are assigning everything in FS, which of ocurse you can do, then, yes, everything must be assigned in FSUIPC. It is optional, you can do either, but only one of those two choices.

If your Flaps axis is not assigned then how can its values reach eith FS or the clabration? How would the calibration tab know what axis it was? Don't you see?

In actual fact, the calibration tab knows nothing at all about axes or devices. It only understands FS controls. It intercepts the controls being received by FS, no matter where they come from, and changes the values being used. This ocurs just before FS actually uses them. It is a long way from any assignment function or device.

1 hour ago, Bopa Pier said:

I am 73 and you know with age..

I am 73 as well, but feeling older! :-(

Pete

 

[Bopa Pier]

Sorry Pete but I just do not succeed with the flaps settings all other axis work OK. I have assigned the respective axis lever in the Axis assignment window, ticked "send direct to FSUIPC calibration" and as control I have selected Flaps. when I change to Joystick calibration calibrate as per para 1: "Set the flaps lever to a position a bit inside the flaps up position..." I click the left set button and I get the value set.  When I continue and proceed as per para 2  by setting the position a bit before full flaps,  clicking on the right button
I get the famous windows chime for "I don't take that"  The value cannot be changed. Idem if I proceed for the center values.
I think that I have now abused to much of your time and I give up.
Just for your info I add the latest actual INI file.

FSUIPC4.ini

[Pete Dowson]

3 hours ago, Bopa Pier said:

Sorry Pete but I just do not succeed with the flaps settings all other axis work OK. I have assigned the respective axis lever in the Axis assignment window, ticked "send direct to FSUIPC calibration" and as control I have selected Flaps. when I change to Joystick calibration calibrate as per para 1: "Set the flaps lever to a position a bit inside the flaps up position..." I click the left set button and I get the value set.  When I continue and proceed as per para 2  by setting the position a bit before full flaps,  clicking on the right button
I get the famous windows chime for "I don't take that"

That only happens if the values aren't increasing. You have the axis reversed -- either check the REV button first, before calibrating, or uncheck it if you have it checked already, before calibrating and then calibrate as per instructions.

With all axes, FSUIPC (and FS) need the numbers going from low to high. The direction axes operate on varies from device to device, and also, of course, you usually want the "Flaps Down" position to be fully forward -- equivalent to where "max thrust" would be for a throttle. So Flaps will be reversed compared to throttles. Same applies to spoilers/speed brakes.

3 hours ago, Bopa Pier said:

I think that I have now abused to much of your time and I give up.

No, don't. You are almost there. Just apply some logic. The options are there. REV is quite useful and essential at times. But I cannot document it as "definitely use REV for this" because devices vary.

Pete

 

[Bopa Pier]

Hurray it works,. but when I tell you how I managed to get it working you will "fall from your chair", as we say in Luxembourg:
So hold on:
The REV was not ticked active, it never was. 
I still had that nerving windows sound  "I don't take it",  but when I checked the INI file, the values where there but not under the profile of the PMDG B737 NGX for which I ticked "use profile" but in the general joystick settings. So I moved them under the profiled PMDG B737.
The flaps now worked but opposite to what happens in the real Boeing aircraft: When the lever was down I had 0 flaps (but I understand  that's the normal FSUIPC logic). I still cannot recall how I managed, some years ago, to get the flaps working according to Boeing logic. I tried to revert the flaps value numbers i.e. positive values first decreasing to negative values, to no avail, the flap setting was still going the "wrong" way.
Then I tried to set the values with with REV ticked,- no success!
Finally I checked what was going on in the FSX control section for the respective joystick lever.  Well nothing! So just to give it a try I assigned the lever to flaps in reverse, BINGO!
One thing is for sure, if I could reverse the time by a month, I would never have changed from `FSX to FSX steam.
Thanks for your patience and help Pete.
Pierre
 

[Pete Dowson]

13 minutes ago, Bopa Pier said:

When the lever was down I had 0 flaps (but I understand  that's the normal FSUIPC logic).

I'm afraid you still misunderstand.

It is nothing to do with FSUIPC. When the value sent to FS is 0 it means flaps 0 (or "up"). The number sent to FS is based on the numbers received from your device. FSUIPC has no idea whether your specific device sends low values at the forward end or the back end. The direction in which the numbers move is device dependent, and all FSUIPC knows about the device is that it gets numbers from it!

All you need to do for any axis on any device, BEFORE doing any calibration at all, is check whether you need to reverse it or not.. Simples!

17 minutes ago, Bopa Pier said:

the values where there but not under the profile of the PMDG B737 NGX for which I ticked "use profile" but in the general joystick settings. So I moved them under the profiled PMDG B737.

If you calibrate when the aircraft is loaded and profile is ticked on the calibration tab, with the profile name shown in the title, then that is where they would be placed. It is logical. Think about it.

If a profile is not active, because none of the relevant aircraft are currently loaded, then you cannot make changes which affect that profile. This is also surely logical?

20 minutes ago, Bopa Pier said:

One thing is for sure, if I could reverse the time by a month, I would never have changed from `FSX to FSX steam.

It is well worthwhile, I can assure you. But if you had a working setup in FSX, why did you throw away your FSUIPC settings? All you needed to do was save and reuse the FSUIPC4.INI file. FSX and FSX-SE are pretty identical is all respects except for performance (FSX-SE is better) and reliability (FSX-SE has many FSX bugs fixed). FSX-SE also has slightly better memory management, so less likelihood or running short of process memory.

You can even use the exact same settings file in P3D, if you ever moved to that. P3D is derived from ESP which was derived from FSX.

I hope you've made a backup copy of the INI file now!

Pete