VRInsight RadioStack does not connect

[silberz]

Hello,

FSUIPC does not see my radiostack:

I have a VRInsight RadioStack, a Windows 10 64-bit, FSX-Steam Edition and A2A C172.

I bought a license of FSUIPC as well as a license for Eterlogic VSPE.

I followed the direction to create a pair with Eterlogic VSPE (COM1, COM2), see Eterlogic_12.vspe attached

I followed the Advanced direction to add the following lines in FSUIPC4.ini (in FSX\Modules), see FSUIPC4.ini attached

[VRInsight]
1=COM1, COM2

[Programs]
Run1=READY,CLOSE,C:\Program Files (x86)\VRInsight\bin\SerialFP2.exe
 

When I run FSX-SE, I see the following two lines in FSUPC4.log, as expected:

 453 VRI port 1 "COM1" opened
 453 VRI driver port 1 "COM2" also opened

However I dont see anything similar to what the advanced documentation says I should see, lines like:

VRI COM2 ---> CMDRST [from VRI Driver]
VRI COM5 <--- CMDRST [to Device]
...

No VRI line after the two lines "453" above...

When I run the FSUIPC plugin, and then go to the tab "Buttons and Switches", nothing happens when I push any of the Radiostack buttons...

What did I do wrong? I am attaching the FSUIPC.log, FSUIPC.ini and Eterlogic_12.vspe files.

Please help

Thanks

--Max Silberztein

Eterlogic_12.vspe

FSUIPC4.log

FSUIPC4.ini

[Pete Dowson]

1 hour ago, silberz said:

FSUIPC does not see my radiostack:

I have a VRInsight RadioStack,

Radio Stack?  Is that a new one, or one of the original serial port versions? Are you sure it uses the same protocols -- VRi changed everything after I added support for their early devices.  I thought they changed over to make them more normal HID devices, like Goflight and so on, for which you need their own drivers.

The original devices are supported by FSUIPC, so if yours is one of those, the error must be in your serial port settings. COM1, COM2 sounds most unlikely, actually (COM1 usually gets used by the system these days). Have you poisitively determined that the device is connected as COM1? And "SerialFP2" is running and set to COM2? If you run SerialFP2 without FSUIPC and the Eterlogic program running, does it see the device on COM1?

Pete

 

 

[silberz]

Thanks Pete for your help (a Sunday!)

Written on the front, is "Instrument Radio Stack (c)2008 VRinsight"

It is surely a COM problem. I just noticed that

(1) I cannot set VSPE to COM3 (it is not even present in the pull-down menu)

(2) but I can set VSPE to COM5-COM6 (and the corresponding line in FSUIPC4.ini)

(3) However, when SerialFP2 is fired (by FSUPIC, thanks to the [Programs] line in FSUPC4.ini), it displays COM3 as greyed out, so that I cannot set it to anything else.

(3) i also tried to run "VRiSIM" instead of SerialFP2: same thing: the field COM3 cannot be edited...

[Pete Dowson]

17 minutes ago, silberz said:

(1) I cannot set VSPE to COM3 (it is not even present in the pull-down menu)

It means COM3 is taken.

17 minutes ago, silberz said:

(2) but I can set VSPE to COM5-COM6 (and the corresponding line in FSUIPC4.ini)

No point if COM5 isn't the device.

17 minutes ago, silberz said:

(3) However, when SerialFP2 is fired (by FSUPIC, thanks to the [Programs] line in FSUPC4.ini), it displays COM3 as greyed out, so that I cannot set it to anything else.

It stretches my memory, but don't you have to run it separately to determine the correct COM port. Don't use FSUIPC in any case, or at least not with any VRI lines until you know which COM port your device is connected to. The Windows Device Manager may help. idplay the COMs devices whilst unplugging it and plugging it in. See which entry changes.

Don't VRI suply setting up instructions? You must be able to use the device without FSUIPC' too, There must be a way to determine where it is connected.

17 minutes ago, silberz said:

(3) i also tried to run "VRiSIM" instead of SerialFP2: same thing: the field COM3 cannot be edited...

I don't know VRiSIM at all.

Pete

 

[silberz]

Pete,

-- the VRInsight Radio Stack comes with the free version of FSUIPC. It is not possible to use it without FSUIPC.

-- I disconnected the radio stack and then restarted my PC, and then the COM3 is now available in VSPE

I set up VSPE to use COM3 <=> COM4

I set FSUIPC.ini to COM3, COM4; I removed the [Programs] section that calls SerialFP

I turned off my PC; I reconnected the radio stack; I started the PC; I ran VSPE (with COM3 <=> COM4)

I started FSX

I started SerialFP.exe, but now it does not find the radiostack...

In the FSUIPC4.log file, I still find the two lines:

      469 VRI port 1 "COM3" opened
      469 VRI driver port 1 "COM4" also opened
but no connection afterwards.

It looks like VRInsight Radio Stack installation creates a hard link to COM3 (maybe in Windows Start?) so that even if I dont run SerialFP, it takes over COM3.

When I forced VSPE to use COM3<=>COM4, now SerialFP cannot find the radiostack.

Do you have any idea how the RadioStack could hijack COM3, even before I call SerialFP ? I am not familiar with Windows 10: maybe something in the Start Folder? in a registry? How to get it undone?

Knowing that for some reason RadioStack wants to use Com3, is there a workaround with VSPE or FSUIPC4?

Thanks for your help

Max

 

[Pete Dowson]

12 minutes ago, silberz said:

-- the VRInsight Radio Stack comes with the free version of FSUIPC. It is not possible to use it without FSUIPC.

Really? That surprises me. I though my implementations were solely to help use the VRI devices on non-default aircraft.

In that case do you actually need SeriaFP2 for anything? It sounds like it doesn't do anything for the RadioStack. If it doesn't there's no point having VSP and two COM ports, just tell fSUIPC to use just COM3 and be done with it.

12 minutes ago, silberz said:

It looks like VRInsight Radio Stack installation creates a hard link to COM3 (maybe in Windows Start?) so that even if I dont run SerialFP, it takes over COM3.

Devices occupy whatever port it is when you connect them. It's the device and device manager that does that. If you unplugged it and plugged it in somewhere alse it would probably change. 

You CAN usually change the port used in the Device Manager, buty there's no need unless there's a reason you don't like COM3.

12 minutes ago, silberz said:

I started SerialFP.exe, but now it does not find the radiostack...

That's correct because it it did how would FSUIPC get it?

12 minutes ago, silberz said:

Do you have any idea how the RadioStack could hijack COM3

It doesn't "hijack" it. It's where it is!

12 minutes ago, silberz said:

Knowing that for some reason RadioStack wants to use Com3, is there a workaround with VSPE or FSUIPC4?

Your VSPE links COM3 to COM4 so FSUIPC can read COM3 and send to SerialFP2 on COM4. That's the whole point which you seem to misunderstand. You then have to make SerialFP2 read it on COM4.

I think this is where I need to refer you to VRI support. There's a very good website somewhere -- take a look.

Pete

 

[silberz]

Pete,

Pete sorry to insist, but even though I am not familiar with virtual COMs I am trying my best to make it work (I bought both FSUIPC and VSPE). I confirm that:

-- VRInsight needs FSUIPC (the free version) to be installed to even work in the standard FSX C172.

-- If I do not run SerialFP, then the radiostack does not even turn on.

-- there is no documentation whatsoever aside the installation manual. And no customer support.

As I said, the only way to set VSPE to COM3<=>COM4 is to disconnect the radiostack.

When I connect the radiostack, it does take over COM3 at startup. Afterwards, COM3 is taken, therefore it is no longer possible to set COM3 in VSPE. What pair of COM should then I enter in VSPE ? I understand that I will set the same exact pair in FSUIPC4.ini

thanks

--Max

 

[Pete Dowson]

3 hours ago, silberz said:

-- VRInsight needs FSUIPC (the free version) to be installed to even work in the standard FSX C172.

I'm amazed at that. I they actually didn't pay me anything at all, just said they didn't need me anymore! That was years ago.

I don't understand what SerialFP2 is for, in that case. That's supposed to be their driver. But they did say they were working on a better one, which I wasn't privy too and which I must assume didn't need FSUIPC in any case, just as SerialFP2 surely didn't. I wasn't their programmer, it was only an extension to my services with FSUIPC, like the GoFlight support -- again, which isn't needed in place of Goflight software.

3 hours ago, silberz said:

-- If I do not run SerialFP, then the radiostack does not even turn on.

No, of course you need their driver. Just not FSUIPC support!!!  Remove the lines from FSUIPC's INI file and stop the VSPE. Just use SerialFP2 -- or download their later drver.

3 hours ago, silberz said:

-- there is no documentation whatsoever aside the installation manual. And no customer support.

I think their English language support was actually run by an enthusiast here in Europe. Have you looked? Haven't you even tried the AVSIM forum fo VRInsight?

Actually, I just Googled, and that seems to have disappeared too:
https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/452814-vrinsight-forum/

So the device is virtually useless and of no value it seems? Did you buy it at a junk sttore, or on ebay or somewhere? Didn't you check these things first?

3 hours ago, silberz said:

As I said, the only way to set VSPE to COM3<=>COM4 is to disconnect the radiostack.

When I connect the radiostack, it does take over COM3 at startup. Afterwards, COM3 is taken, therefore it is no longer possible to set COM3 in VSPE.

There's no such thing as a COM port "taken" unless a program is running which "takes" it. The COM port belongs to the device NOT the program. it sounds like you have some VRI software running which opens the device -- but I thought you only had SerialFP2 to do that! If SerialFP2 can get COM3 then so can VSPE instead. That's the whole point which you don't seem to understand.

3 hours ago, silberz said:

What pair of COM should then I enter in VSPE ?

One of the pair MUST be the device. The other doesn't matter, that's the "virtual" port which FSUIPC will realy the Radio Stacks message to SerialFP2 through. So SerialFP2 then needs to opebn that port, not COM3.

But if it NEEDS FSUIPC then you don't need SerialFP2 and you don't need VSPE. Just set only COM3, one port in FSUIPC. What's the point of FSUIPC sending the radio stuff to SerialFP2 if it isn't going to use it?

You don't seem to understand much of what I'm saying at all I'm afraid.

I do not have any VRI devices any more, not for years. The facilities I added were as a favour to users. There's no way any device being commercially sold can be dependent on FSUIPC, at least not without my agreement and recompense. That makes no sense. If it is really like that then it is junk.

Pete

 

[silberz]

Pete,

I agree with you that I dont understand much of COMs, virtual COMs, USB devices pretending to be connected to COMs etc. I do know for a fact though:

-- the FSUIPC4 documentation mentions VRInsight hardware, and specifically the radio stack, at the beginning of Appendix 3 in Document for Advanced Users. It gives the very precise sequence of operations needed to control a VRInsight hardware from FSUIPC. I followed the instructions exactly.

-- I see no software (neither in the Windows 10 startup, nor even in Task Manager) that could be responsible for blocking COM3. However, right after Windows starts, I do see in the Windows Driver Manager that in the "COM Ports" field there is a "USB Serial Port (COM3)".

If COM3 is already taken by the USB driver, doesn't this explain why VSPE refuses to give me pair this port?

What should I do to either stop the USB driver to block COM3, or else to pair COM3 to another port (in VSPE), or else to force SerialFP to connect the RadioStack to another port?

I understand your frustration trying to explain something so simple (for you) to a customer (who do not understand COMs). But Please consider that I bought both FSUIPC4 and VSPE ($50) based on the documentation clearly stating how to connect VRInsight hardware to FSUIPC4, and I followed the instructions exactly.

Please help!

Best

--Max

[Pete Dowson]

1 hour ago, silberz said:

agree with you that I dont understand much of COMs, virtual COMs, USB devices pretending to be connected to COMs etc. I do know for a fact though:

-- the FSUIPC4 documentation mentions VRInsight hardware, and specifically the radio stack, at the beginning of Appendix 3 in Document for Advanced Users. It gives the very precise sequence of operations needed to control a VRInsight hardware from FSUIPC. I followed the instructions exactly.

Yes exactly. And it worked with the hardware VRInsight provided at that time. Provided you followed the instructions exactly.

BUT the radio stack also worked with just SerialFP2. FSUIPC was only needed if you wanted to use non-standard assignments.

1 hour ago, silberz said:

-- I see no software (neither in the Windows 10 startup, nor even in Task Manager) that could be responsible for blocking COM3. However, right after Windows starts, I do see in the Windows Driver Manager that in the "COM Ports" field there is a "USB Serial Port (COM3)".

Yes, of course. As I've said several times before, that port IS where youre radio stack is! You'll see that the entry in Device Manager will go if yo unplug the device! That tells you it is connected to COM3, which is what you need to know to use it!

1 hour ago, silberz said:

If COM3 is already taken by the USB driver, doesn't this explain why VSPE refuses to give me pair this port?

No, actually, VSPE needs two different ports. Sorry if i confused you earlier. It is now all coming back to me. (It was years agao and I am 74. I should have retired vback then).

FSUIPC needs to be told COM3 as the first. VSPE links COMx to COMy, two other COM ports which are free. The second port in FSUIPC is COMx, and SerialFFP2 is assigned to COMy.

I'm sure the documentation you keep referring to says as much. Let me look:

Yes, it says:

After installing it and registering it (you have to cut and paste the long key!), proceed as follows:

1.       From the Device menu, select Create.

2.       In the Device Type drop-down, select Pair, then press Next and Finish.

3.       Repeat steps 1 and 2 for the number of VRI devices you want to connect this way.

4.       Note down the pairs made. For example:

COM5 <-> COM6
COM7 <-> COM8

then later on, for editing FSUIPC4.INI it says:

As an example, supposing I have one VRI device on COM3 and another on COM9. With my two pairs as set in the example on the previous page I could have:

                                1=COM3, COM6
                                2=COM9, COM8

Note here that COM3 and COM9 are NOT part of the VSPE pairs at all. They are the real devices, just like your COM3 for your device.Then, as it goes on to say, SerialFP2 should find these two devices on COM5 and COM7, the other end of the pairs linked by VSPE.

All this is what is written. you've not followed what is written despite saying you had. I'm sorry I didn't check, but i believed you!

This is NOT "COMMs" it is simple logic. Look at the later section where it shows the links:

SerialFP2 <-> COM5 <-> COM6 <-> FSUIPC <-> COM3 <-> VRI Device1
SerialFP2 <-> COM7 <-> COM8 <-> FSUIPC <-> COM9 <-> VRI Device2

See? There are 3 "COM" numbers involved for each device, to get the flow of data as it sohwns.

Pete

 

[ThomasAH]

I would recommend using VRiSim and the Radio Stack module from http://vrinsight.com/devel_shot/ instead of the old SerialFP2.

Next step would be to make this setup work without the virtual com ports of VSPE.

Only after this works you should attempt the next steps:

- know which COM port your VRI device appears as, lets assume COM3 (which it is for me)

- setup a virtual serial cable between COM4 and COM5 using VSPE (or something else, I use com0com)

- add this to your FSUIPC4.ini to make FSUIPC connect to the device on COM3 and talk to VRISim on COM4:

[VRInsight]
1=COM3,COM4

- Start VRiSim only after you have started FSUIPC (i.e. the flight simulator), so it does not connect to COM3 (which is busy now), but to COM5 (which looks like a VRInsight device, because it is connected to COM4, which is FSUIPC passing the information to and from the real device on COM3). I start VRiSim via FSUIPC, so the order is guaranteed.

 

Edit: And a clarification: You need FSUIPC for the VRInsight devices, but you don't need any configuration in FSUIPC and you don't need VSPE! You only need VSPE and additional FSUIPC configuration if you want to filter/adjust/extend the existing functionality provided by VRiSim (or SerialFP2).

[silberz]

Dear Pete and Thomas,

Thank you for your helpful messages. To make myself clear:

-- when I run FSX-SE and then VRiSim, and then I select the default C172, the Radio Stack works perfectly, all buttons and dials.
-- however if I select A2A C172, almost none of the buttons do not work properly: COM1, COM2, NAV1 and NAV2 ON/OFF, DME R1 and R2 buttons do not work.

FSUIPC4 + VSPE are supposed to solve the problem (see Appendix 3 of their Advanced Documentation), so I bought them.

Now I followed your instructions:

run VSPE with pair COM4<=>COM5

Add lines to FSUIPC4.ini
[VRInsight]
1=COM3,COM4

run FSX, select default C172
run VRiSim, then Connect

However, in FSUIPC4 plugin, when I select tab "Buttons + Switches", only the bottom part of the radio stack respond:

-- none of the COM, NAV, ADF and DME panels button are recognized
-- the Transponder and Autopilot panels' buttons are "kind of" recognized by FSUIPC, but only when I push each button twice, both in FSUIPC plugin and back in the cockpit.

Then, I did not find the corresponding FSUIPC functions for buttons: "TRANSPONDER VFR", "TRANSPONDER NORM", "AUTOPILOT THR" nor "AUTOPILOT FD".

To recap:

(1) FSUIPC recognizes only the bottom 2 panels of the radio stack. Is it possible that there is other COMs that come in play? If so how to find out which COMs are involved and how to pair them in FSUIPC?

Maybe a hint: the VRInsight sofware "SFP2_COM_KeyMapper.exe" only displays these two bottom panels...

(2) For the two bottom panels (Transponder and Autopilot), FSUIPC only recognize events when I hit buttons twice (and same back in the cockpit). Is there any way FSUIPC could react at the first press of these buttons (just like for other joystick buttons?)

(3) There are a few functions missing in FSUIPC (even though without FSUIPC, on the default C172, they all work fine).
 

Best

--Max

[Pete Dowson]

4 minutes ago, silberz said:

FSUIPC4 + VSPE are supposed to solve the problem (see Appendix 3 of their Advanced Documentation), so I bought them.

The support is for the state of the Modules as they were a long time ago. I'm afraid I have no access to any VRi equipment now and cannot undertake to add functions which were not available back then as this certainly seems to indicate:

15 minutes ago, silberz said:

Maybe a hint: the VRInsight sofware "SFP2_COM_KeyMapper.exe" only displays these two bottom panels...

Maybe you can use logging to see what is going on. Add the following to the [General] section of the FSUIPC4.INI file:

Debug=Please
LogExtras=x4

If the codes for the missing parts are logged, then you could probably program them yourself in a Lua plug-in, or I could take a look to see if they are easy to add.

16 minutes ago, silberz said:

For the two bottom panels (Transponder and Autopilot), FSUIPC only recognize events when I hit buttons twice (and same back in the cockpit). Is there any way FSUIPC could react at the first press of these buttons (just like for other joystick buttons?)

I think that's a function of the way they work -- off or on. You have to program both press and release.

17 minutes ago, silberz said:

There are a few functions missing in FSUIPC (even though without FSUIPC, on the default C172, they all work fine).

And they are ...?

Pete

 

[ThomasAH]

A2A aircraft do many things different from default aircraft. Here is a list of LVars they use in the C172:

http://www.a2asimulations.com/Cockpitbuilders/A2A%20C172%20Trainer%20-%20Variable%20list.pdf

 

If you want (or need) to assign everything in FSUIPC (either in the GUI, INI file or lua scripts), then you don't even need VSPE and VRiSim, because this coupling is only needed to pass the existing functionality of VRiSim to FSX while being able to modify only parts of the behaviour implemented by VRiSim. (e.g. I have the M-Panel and use a lua script to have the altimeter in millibar instead of inHg and to use the gear indicator leds to display AP status and parking brake, but everything else should behave as the M-Panel does by default).

 

But I would assume it is quite a bit of work to configure all the mappings needed for A2A aircraft. If you are willing to do that, you might get some inspiration by the LINDA module:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/418321-new-a2a-c172-trainer-module-version-103/

(I haven't really used LINDA so far, and I think above module only covers VRInsight's MCP)

 

So in the end the question is: How much work are you willing to put into this? I would assume that you need at least some programming, or at least FSUIPC4.ini entries that are complex enough to be at the same level of difficulty.

If yes: Congratulations, you are a cockpit builder! :-)

If no: You are in the same boat as I am. I avoided A2A aircraft for a long time due to this, but now I just use the mouse (or in my case: trackball) in the virtual cockpit for such things, because I have realized that I want to fly this specific aircraft and not my "desktop cockpit" where every aircraft has all the relevant knobs in the same place.