Puzzling Issue - Yoke Recognised by FSUIPC BUT Not Usable

[TszChun.Anson]

Dear Pete,

I really hope that you could help! I have experienced this issue so many times. After I loaded into a flight in P3D, my ACE yoke was not usable. The strangest thing was that, the yoke resumed normal every time after I restarted P3D. Once I noticed the yoke was not usable, I immediately opened the FSUIPC log file to see whether my yoke was recognised, and the answer was yes - the yoke (Plasma MM2) was successfully detected by FSUIPC and listed under Device acquired for use section. After that I tried reconnect the yoke a few times but it was still not usable. 

Please help me! I was very tired and did not want to experience this anymore. Thank you very much.

Best Regards,

Anson

FSUIPC5.log

FSUIPC5.JoyScan.csv

[Pete Dowson]

1 hour ago, TszChun.Anson said:

I immediately opened the FSUIPC log file to see whether my yoke was recognised, and the answer was yes - the yoke (Plasma MM2) was successfully detected by FSUIPC and listed under Device acquired for use section. After that I tried reconnect the yoke a few times but it was still not usable. 

The Log shows that the device is continally disconnecting and reconnecting.  FSUIPC is clearly receiving notifications of these events from Windows.

I assume you've not installed any software for the device? Best not to. If you have, try using Windows' Device manager to completely uninstall it and any drivers, then re-boot the PC. Also, make sure that USB power management is disabled on all USB devices (hubs etc) listed in Device Manager.

The only alternative answer really is that it is a hardware problem.  Try a different USB connection, a different cable. If nothing improves it then I'd suspect the yoke itself.

Pete

 

[TszChun.Anson]

22 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

The Log shows that the device is continally disconnecting and reconnecting.  FSUIPC is clearly receiving notifications of these events from Windows.

This was because I tried to disconnect and reconnect the yoke to see whether the yoke could resume normal without restarting P3D.

24 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

I assume you've not installed any software for the device? Best not to. 

The device is plug-and-play. No software was provided by the vendor.

24 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

Also, make sure that USB power management is disabled on all USB devices (hubs etc) listed in Device Manager.

Yes! I have already disabled USB power management in both Windows High Performance power plan (the one activated) and device manager (each device available).

27 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

The only alternative answer really is that it is a hardware problem.  Try a different USB connection, a different cable. If nothing improves it then I'd suspect the yoke itself.

Under the section "Joystick Device Scan", there was "125 Product= <not readable at this time: maybe device disconnected?>" shown, which was indicating that my yoke was not readable. However my yoke was actually physically connected and detected by Windows (shown in Windows Device Manager and Game Controller Setting). Is this providing us some clue?

Also, is the following log may suggesting an ID overlapping issue?

  2455219 Device acquired for use:
  2455219    Joystick ID = 0 (Registry okay)
  2455219    0=Flight Rudder Pedals
  2455219    0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
  2455219 Device acquired for use:
  2455219    Joystick ID = 0 (Registry okay)
  2455219    0=Plasma-MM2
  2455219    0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}

 

Anson

[Pete Dowson]

23 minutes ago, TszChun.Anson said:

Under the section "Joystick Device Scan", there was "125 Product= <not readable at this time: maybe device disconnected?>" shown, which was indicating that my yoke was not readable. However my yoke was actually physically connected and detected by Windows (shown in Windows Device Manager and Game Controller Setting). Is this providing us some clue?

FSUIPC is just returning the error it received from Windows when it asked for the Product Name. as you can see, all the other details were accessible. I'm afraid i don't know what the circumstances can be for the Product name not being readable. I see later on that this did not occur.

26 minutes ago, TszChun.Anson said:

is the following log may suggesting an ID overlapping issue?

Ouch!  I hadn't noticed that. That shouldn't happen. The first scan shows:

      125 Device acquired for use:
      125    Joystick ID = 0 (Registry okay)
      125    0=Flight Rudder Pedals
      125    0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
      125 Device acquired for use:
      125    Joystick ID = 1 (Registry okay)
      125    1=Plasma-MM2
      125    1.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}

 Looks like the disconnect/reconnection messes something up. what does the JoyNames section in the INI file show?

Looking again at the CSV file, i think that's a registry issue:

Y, x1E, x06A3, x0763, Flight Rudder Pedals, 0, 0, 0, ...
Y, x1E, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, 0, 0, 0, ...
N, x19, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, -1, 1, 0, ..
N, x11, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, -1, -1, 1, ...
Y, x1E, x044F, x0404, Throttle - HOTAS Warthog, 2, 2, 0, ...
Y, x1E, x0738, x2215, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick, 3, 3, 1, ...
N, x11, x0738, x2215, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick, -1, -1, 0, ...

Ignore the RED entries which are not valid (readable) joysticks. With the Rhino I think the extra entry is a control interface to set it up or update firmware. not sure why there are two extra entries for the Planma-MM2.

The important value to observe here is the second single digit number. That's the ID read from the registry. I've highlit those by Italic large font. The -ve numbers mean none assigned. Odd that one of the non-joystick accesses to the Plasma-MM2 has been assigned ID=1 in the Registry.

I suggest two things:

1. Check the JoyNames section in the INI and make sure the IDs there are all unique. If necessary change them.

2. Uninstall the device completely in Device manager (hopefully this will remove the Registry entries) then re-boot. when the device is seen again it will be added back, hopefully with better entries. (If not there's another stage -- Registry editing. but let's leave that for now!).

Pete

 

[TszChun.Anson]

19 minutes ago, Pete Dowson said:

FSUIPC is just returning the error it received from Windows when it asked for the Product Name. as you can see, all the other details were accessible. I'm afraid i don't know what the circumstances can be for the Product name not being readable. I see later on that this did not occur.

Ouch!  I hadn't noticed that. That shouldn't happen. The first scan shows:

      125 Device acquired for use:
      125    Joystick ID = 0 (Registry okay)
      125    0=Flight Rudder Pedals
      125    0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
      125 Device acquired for use:
      125    Joystick ID = 1 (Registry okay)
      125    1=Plasma-MM2
      125    1.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}

 Looks like the disconnect/reconnection messes something up. what does the JoyNames section in the INI file show?

Looking again at the CSV file, i think that's a registry issue:

Y, x1E, x06A3, x0763, Flight Rudder Pedals, 0, 0, 0, ...
Y, x1E, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, 0, 0, 0, ...
N, x19, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, -1, 1, 0, ..
N, x11, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, -1, -1, 1, ...
Y, x1E, x044F, x0404, Throttle - HOTAS Warthog, 2, 2, 0, ...
Y, x1E, x0738, x2215, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick, 3, 3, 1, ...
N, x11, x0738, x2215, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick, -1, -1, 0, ...

Ignore the RED entries which are not valid (readable) joysticks. With the Rhino I think the extra entry is a control interface to set it up or update firmware. not sure why there are two extra entries for the Planma-MM2.

The important value to observe here is the second single digit number. That's the ID read from the registry. I've highlit those by Italic large font. The -ve numbers mean none assigned. Odd that one of the non-joystick accesses to the Plasma-MM2 has been assigned ID=1 in the Registry.

I suggest two things:

1. Check the JoyNames section in the INI and make sure the IDs there are all unique. If necessary change them.

2. Uninstall the device completely in Device manager (hopefully this will remove the Registry entries) then re-boot. when the device is seen again it will be added back, hopefully with better entries. (If not there's another stage -- Registry editing. but let's leave that for now!).

Pete

 

 

There is no overlapping ID found in Joynames section. However it seems strange that none of the devices are assigned ID=1...

[JoyNames]
AutoAssignLetters=No
2=Throttle - HOTAS Warthog
2.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}
3=Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick
3.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}
0=Plasma-MM2
0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}

Sorry I cannot fully understand what you mean by "Odd that one of the non-joystick accesses to the Plasma-MM2 has been assigned ID=1 in the Registry.". You mean the the rudder pedals are having the same ID with Plasma-MM2?

Anson

[TszChun.Anson]

I just started P3D again and extracted the csv and log files out immediately after P3D main page was loaded. I noticed a few major difference, the ID did not overlap anymore. 

 

Y, x1E, x06A3, x0763, Flight Rudder Pedals, 0, 0, 0, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}, Y, Y
Y, x1E, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, 1, 1, 0, {NULL}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}, Y, Y
N, x11, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, -1, -1, 1, {NULL}, {AF4AF840-3E72-11E8-8011-444553540000}, {NULL}, N, N
Y, x1E, x044F, x0404, Throttle - HOTAS Warthog, 2, 2, 0, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}, Y, Y
Y, x1E, x0738, x2215, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick, 3, 3, 1, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}, Y, Y
N, x11, x0738, x2215, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick, -1, -1, 0, {NULL}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8005-444553540000}, {NULL}, N, N

 

Then I loaded into flight and found that the yoke was usable. What makes me puzzled is why the result differs everytime I started P3D...

 

Anson

FSUIPC5.log

FSUIPC5.JoyScan.csv

[Pete Dowson]

7 hours ago, TszChun.Anson said:

Sorry I cannot fully understand what you mean by "Odd that one of the non-joystick accesses to the Plasma-MM2 has been assigned ID=1 in the Registry.". You mean the the rudder pedals are having the same ID with Plasma-MM2?

No! I meant that the Plasma-MM2 has three entries in the registry, as listed, but that two of them have joystick IDs assigned there: 0 for the "correct" connection, which clashes with the pedals, and 1 for the INCORRECT connection relating to some unkown function other than normal joystick operations! Please review again the extracts I showed above!

7 hours ago, TszChun.Anson said:

I just started P3D again and extracted the csv and log files out immediately after P3D main page was loaded. I noticed a few major difference, the ID did not overlap anymore. 

So the CSV you sent earlier was different?

Yes, that looks a lot better.

7 hours ago, TszChun.Anson said:

Then I loaded into flight and found that the yoke was usable. What makes me puzzled is why the result differs everytime I started P3D..

Well it would puzzle me too. So what was the previous CSV file you uploaded? One AFTER you had the problem, or an initial problem? Do you know it is different each time? Or is is changing, somehow, later.

I've still not heard about the settings in the INI file either!

Have you asked ACE support, as it does seem a very specific problem to their device?

Pete

 

[TszChun.Anson]

3 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

So the CSV you sent earlier was different?

Yes, the CSV and log I uploaded EARLIER were extracted when my yoke was NOT USABLE. The  files I uploaded LATER was when my yoke DIDN'T HAVE THE ISSUE (after I restarted P3D).

 

3 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Do you know it is different each time? Or is is changing, somehow, later.

The issue seems happening randomly. Most often the yoke will be normal and responding properly. But about 1/5 chance of starting P3D with an problematic yoke. 

 

4 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

Have you asked ACE support, as it does seem a very specific problem to their device?

Not yet but I will. They are famous for their responsive customer service...

 

Anson

[TszChun.Anson]

FSUIPC5.ini

[Pete Dowson]

5 hours ago, TszChun.Anson said:

The  files I uploaded LATER was when my yoke DIDN'T HAVE THE ISSUE (after I restarted P3D).

...

The issue seems happening randomly. Most often the yoke will be normal and responding properly. But about 1/5 chance of starting P3D with an problematic yoke.

Ah, so if it starts off okay does it continue okay for that session? Can you try moving its axes back and forth before P3D is loaded, or whilst it is loading?

Regarding my suggestions earlier:

1. Check the JoyNames section in the INI and make sure the IDs there are all unique. If necessary change them.

I see your INI contains a good JoyNames section now.  However, you do really need to change this line

AutoAssignLetters=No
to AutoAssignLetters=Yes

Or, for more meaningful assigned letters than A, B, C, D, change it and assign your own letters, so:

[JoyNames]
0=Flight Rudder Pedals
0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
1=Plasma-MM2
1.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}
2=Throttle - HOTAS Warthog
2.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}
3=Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick
3.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}

R=Flight Rudder Pedals
R.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
Y=Plasma-MM2
Y.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}
T=Throttle - HOTAS Warthog
T.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}
S=Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick
S.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}

Then run P3D. FSUIPC4 will automatically change all number assignments to letters. After that we can change IDs without messing assignments up.

THEN close P3D4 down and edit these lines:

0=Flight Rudder Pedals
0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
1=Plasma-MM2
1.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}

changing them to

4=Flight Rudder Pedals
4.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
5=Plasma-MM2
5.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}

so that joystick IDs 0 and 1 are avoided.

2. Uninstall the device completely in Device manager (hopefully this will remove the Registry entries) then re-boot. when the device is seen again it will be added back, hopefully with better entries.

I still think this is worth doing, as I'm convinced there's something wrong with the registry entries for the device.

Pete

 

[TszChun.Anson]

1 hour ago, Pete Dowson said:

However, you do really need to change this line

AutoAssignLetters=No
to AutoAssignLetters=Yes

Or, for more meaningful assigned letters than A, B, C, D, change it and assign your own letters, so:

[JoyNames]
0=Flight Rudder Pedals
0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
1=Plasma-MM2
1.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}
2=Throttle - HOTAS Warthog
2.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}
3=Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick
3.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}

R=Flight Rudder Pedals
R.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
Y=Plasma-MM2
Y.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}
T=Throttle - HOTAS Warthog
T.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}
S=Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick
S.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}

Then run P3D. FSUIPC4 will automatically change all number assignments to letters. After that we can change IDs without messing assignments up.

THEN close P3D4 down and edit these lines:

0=Flight Rudder Pedals
0.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
1=Plasma-MM2
1.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}

changing them to

4=Flight Rudder Pedals
4.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}
5=Plasma-MM2
5.GUID={AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}

so that joystick IDs 0 and 1 are avoided.

 

Just to confirm I understand right...

1. Manually change the numbers to letters in ini file like your example

2. Start P3D to let FSUIPC automatically adjust itself

3. Close P3D. Then manually change the letters of Plasma MM2 and Rudder Pedals  to a different numbers (like 4 and 5)

 

May I confirm that in step 1 I don’t need to set AutoAssignLetters=Yes if I choose to manually change the numbers to meaningful letters?

May I know why step 3 is needed? Step 1 that changed the IDs to letters should have already avoided overlapping 0 and 1?

Thanks very much!

Anson

[Pete Dowson]

36 minutes ago, TszChun.Anson said:

Just to confirm I understand right...

1. Manually change the numbers to letters in ini file like your example

2. Start P3D to let FSUIPC automatically adjust itself

3. Close P3D. Then manually change the letters of Plasma MM2 and Rudder Pedals  to a different numbers (like 4 and 5)

Affirmative.

36 minutes ago, TszChun.Anson said:

May I confirm that in step 1 I don’t need to set AutoAssignLetters=Yes if I choose to manually change the numbers to meaningful letters?

Affirmative. "Auto" means do it automatically, but you can do it manually. If you think you might add or change controllers later, then set itto Yes. It wom't change your manually set ones but will then automatically add letters for new connections.

38 minutes ago, TszChun.Anson said:

May I know why step 3 is needed? Step 1 that changed the IDs to letters should have already avoided overlapping 0 and 1?

You cannot change the IDs in mid-session. You need to let it do the assignment changes first.

Pete

 

[TszChun.Anson]

18 hours ago, Pete Dowson said:

You cannot change the IDs in mid-session. You need to let it do the assignment changes first.

Sorry for my misleading words. I mean, AFTER closing P3D in step 3, should I change (again) the letters of Plasma MM2 and Rudder Pedals to a different numbers (like 4 and 5). I thought that step 1 have already prevented the numerical IDs from overlapping.

Thanks.

Anson

[Pete Dowson]

5 hours ago, TszChun.Anson said:

AFTER closing P3D in step 3, should I change (again) the letters of Plasma MM2 and Rudder Pedals to a different numbers (like 4 and 5)

Don't change any letters already used and assigned, or you'll lose the assignments. The numbers only should be changed, after closing P3D.

Pete

 

[TszChun.Anson]

Thanks very much Pete! I followed your advice to modify the ini file. The lines seems ok now and so far the yoke works perfectly. I will continue to see whether the issue exist.

Anson

FSUIPC5.ini

FSUIPC5.JoyScan.csv

FSUIPC5.log

[TszChun.Anson]

Dear Pete,

I'm sorry that the issue still persists. This time the yoke did not respond although it seemed to be correctly detected according to the csv and ini files. They were extracted and uploaded to here immediately after I noticed the problem (P3D still running).

Y, x1E, x06A3, x0763, Flight Rudder Pedals, 4, 4, 0, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8006-444553540000}, Y, Y
Y, x1E, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, 5, 5, 0, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800A-444553540000}, Y, Y
N, x11, x12DA, x0920, Plasma-MM2, -1, -1, 1, {NULL}, {AF4AF840-3E72-11E8-8011-444553540000}, {NULL}, N, N
Y, x1E, x044F, x0404, Throttle - HOTAS Warthog, 2, 2, 0, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800B-444553540000}, Y, Y
Y, x1E, x0738, x2215, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick, 3, 3, 1, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-800C-444553540000}, Y, Y
N, x11, x0738, x2215, Saitek Pro Flight X-55 Rhino Stick, -1, -1, 0, {NULL}, {AF48AE50-3E72-11E8-8005-444553540000}, {NULL}, N, N

FSUIPC5.ini

FSUIPC5.JoyScan.csv

FSUIPC5.log

[TszChun.Anson]

https://youtu.be/Y5ITGr4NMRo

This is a short video showing the issue. Hope this helps!

Note that at the beginning of the video, actually I did physically moved the yoke but as you can see nothing happened.

Anson

[Pete Dowson]

46 minutes ago, TszChun.Anson said:

I'm sorry that the issue still persists. This time the yoke did not respond although it seemed to be correctly detected according to the csv and ini files. They were extracted and uploaded to here immediately after I noticed the problem (P3D still running).

Well, all that shows perfection as far as FSUIPC is concerned. There's really nothing else it can do. Can you get support from the makers or suppliers? It seems to be the only problem device. They must be doing something very non-standard.

Pete