Turboprops specifics in FSUIPC

[roger.wielgus]

to Peter,

Would it be possible to add in an upcoming version of FSUIPC some specifics for Turboprop aircrafts ?

In the separate Joystick throttle axis would it be possible to add a Flight Idle position. We would then have:

Full Throttle - Flight Idle - Ground Idle and reverse.

In the separate Prop axis could you please add a Fuel Cut Off position and a Min Prop position for those turboprops like the Dash8 for instance which have advanced Condition levers doing both.

We would then have:

Max Prop - Min Prop - Startup/Feather - Fuel cut Off.

I do currently use the fantastic DASH8-300 by Oleksiy Frolov to which all other aircrafts produced for FS2002/2004 are uncomparable.

The handling of that plane is so close to the real thing and unfortunately I have really big problems fine tuning my separate throttles/prop/fuel quad to match the requirements of that plane.

It would help anyway for finetuning any turboprops available.

Thanks in advance.

Roger Wielgus

Strasbourg/ France

[Pete Dowson]

Would it be possible to add in an upcoming version of FSUIPC some specifics for Turboprop aircrafts ?

In the separate Joystick throttle axis would it be possible to add a Flight Idle position. We would then have:

Full Throttle - Flight Idle - Ground Idle and reverse.

In the separate Prop axis could you please add a Fuel Cut Off position and a Min Prop position for those turboprops like the Dash8 for instance which have advanced Condition levers doing both.

We would then have:

Max Prop - Min Prop - Startup/Feather - Fuel cut Off.

Do you know precisely how I can do this? I can understand full forward = 16384. Full reverse = -16384 * percentage reverse available (defined in AIR file or CFG), and idle = 0, but where do these other values get defined? How would I know what values to set for "flight Idle" relative to "Ground Idle"?, or "Min Prop" relative to "Startup/feather"? Aren't these very specific to the individual implementation by the aircraft maker? How do I find out?

In any case it is too big a job to change the current axis facilities in FSUIPC. I do have on my list a big project to undertake which will certainly include such facilities, assuming I can understand them. It will probably be a separate optional module which works with FSUIPC and replace the Joystick pages therein. It will assign the axes too -- bypassing FS's facilities altogether, and so allowing full calibration and detailed "stops" (detentes), response curves, and maybe even button-mapping from specific axis positions.

I will try to make this compatible with the current facilities, and therefore may still use the FSUIPC.INI file values where applicable, but add many new parameters.

Unfortunately, trying to make time to fit this in is proving more difficult than I had hoped, so I don't see it being done this side of Christmas. I shall try to make space by denying some of the many other requests for a while.

Regards,

Pete

[roger.wielgus]

Thanks Peter.

I thought it was easy to implement since I do already have the choice to set the value I want for Feather in the Prop setting or Idle in the Throttle setting.

In my understanding implementing a Flight Idle was just a supplementary "STOPS" or "DETEND" which depends of course on the kind of throttle quad and kind of plane.

So, I am very keen to hear about the new add-on.

Regards

Roger

[Pete Dowson]

I thought it was easy to implement since I do already have the choice to set the value I want for Feather in the Prop setting or Idle in the Throttle setting.

These are simply "centre" positions, just like those necessarily provided for Aileron, Elevator, Rudder, et cetera. Centre values are always 0 so there's no ambiguity, no problem.

In my understanding implementing a Flight Idle was just a supplementary "STOPS" or "DETEND" which depends of course on the kind of throttle quad and kind of plane.

But how can I have two different types of zero? And there are no "stops" or "detentes" in FSUIPC at present, that is the problem. There are only Maximum/Centre/Minimum. I can apply those to any axis, that is not a problem. The maximum, centre, minimum values are self-evident and determinable.

What is the value of a "flight idle" compared to a "ground idle"? They cannot both be zero I assume? So which one is zero, and then what is the other?

Without knowing these things I can do nothing. And at present I do not want to start extending the current FSUIPC facilities by adding a new feature for "stops" or "detentes" when the time would be more beneficially be spent doing things more generally and in a less error-prone way. The stuff in FSUIPC has really been stretched further than was originally intended in any case and I fear to stretch it further may break it in too many places and cost much more time to then fix, for much less return.

Regards,

Pete

[roger.wielgus]

Peter,

I got it. I understand better.

Thanks for the reply

Kind regards

Roger

[Pete Dowson]

I got it. I understand better.

Ah, but I don't! :wink:

What is the difference in terms of throttle value between "flight" and "ground" idles? They cannot both be zero, else how is the difference seen? Are you sure the difference is not a button press or switch instead of a throttle value?

Regards,

Pete

[roger.wielgus]

Pete,

Not at all. I do use a real SHORT 360 pedestal linked to the PC with pots.. The throttle quad has several positions for the levers.

As for setting the reverse, between flight Idle and Ground Idle you have to pull the levers before sliding them back. Flight Idle is the minimum rpm of the turbine in flight.

Ground Idle in a descent would shut down the engines.

The space on the quad between ground and flight idle is used to for taxiyng.

Regards

Roger

[Pete Dowson]

Flight Idle is the minimum rpm of the turbine in flight.

Ground Idle in a descent would shut down the engines.

The space on the quad between ground and flight idle is used to for taxiyng.

But which Idle is the FS idle? They cannot both be zero if there's no additional control being used! So how does FS differentiate between the two idles? I keep asking the same question in different ways but not yet getting a usable answer I'm afraid. :cry:

It sounds as if your "flight idle" is in fact just a specific throttle setting ABOVE zero, else you wouldn't be able to use it to taxi? Isn't this measurable on some dial similar to N1 or N2 or EPR or RPM or something?

Regards,

Pete

[roger.wielgus]

It sounds as if your "flight idle" is in fact just a specific throttle setting ABOVE zero, else you wouldn't be able to use it to taxi? Isn't this measurable on some dial similar to N1 or N2 or EPR or RPM or something

?

Of course. It is just too bad ( for me) that this value does not match the setting on the quad.

When I pull the lever back to flight Idle, the generated values of my pots are simply to close to the ground Idle and the engines do not like that.

It was a dream, may be one day???

Kind regards

Roger

[Pete Dowson]

[quote name="roger.wielgus

Of course. It is just too bad ( for me) that this value does not match the setting on the quad. When I pull the lever back to flight Idle' date=' the generated values of my pots are simply to close to the ground Idle and the engines do not like that.

[/quote]

But I still don't understand, and you aren't telling me :cry: What ARE the values? Use FSUIPC's Logging -- monitor the throttle values (right-hand page, offsets 088C (Engine 1) and 0924 (Engine 2), as signed 16-bit values (S16).

If the values are too close to be differentiated on your throttle lever then maybe it is some poor design on the part of the FS panel maker, and I don't understand that either. What is meant by "the engines don't like that"? What sort of complaints do they make?

It was a dream, may be one day???

Well, one day, possibly, if you can explain it a bit more, please. I keep asking for specifics but don't get them. :o

Regards,

Pete

[roger.wielgus]

Pete,

There are indeed some communication problems. My "frenglish" is not that good. I know.

My hardware comes from a real plane. It has several positions inherent to the plane in question. I have adapted it to used it with MSFS.

As I already wrote it shows 4 positions which can be loched and which are:

Full Power - Flight Idle - Ground Idle - Reverse.

Currently my settings in Fsuipc are

16193 for full power

-13324 for ground Idle

-16192 for the reverser

When my lever is set to Flight Idle the value I read in Fsuipc =0

My problem is that this position on the harware does not match the same position in the software.

The problem is the same for the Flaps Axis. I do have by chance only four positions and they work not to bad. Peoples who are simulating planes with 7 or 8 positions must have a possibility to match the levers of the hardware with the soft, I mean the plane. If they can match using a Joystick axis 8 positions of flaps perfectly, then I should also be able to match 4 throttle positions. Am I wrong ???

It is hard for me to be clear and I understand that it isnt easy for you to get what I am trying to explain.

Kind regards

Roger

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[Pete Dowson]

As I already wrote it shows 4 positions which can be loched and which are:

Full Power - Flight Idle - Ground Idle - Reverse.

Currently my settings in Fsuipc are

16193 for full power

-13324 for ground Idle

-16192 for the reverser

When my lever is set to Flight Idle the value I read in Fsuipc =0

My problem is that this position on the harware does not match the same position in the software.

These "settings" are the input values which are of no interest at all to me, they are very specific to your hardware!

What I need to know is what values FS wants to set "flight" and "ground" idle. From what you've said before I'm assuming GROUND idle should be the "real" idle, i.e 0, as you said you can taxi at flight idle.

If Flight Idle were 0 then you'd get no thrust, and I assume ground idle would have to be negative -- hence your "engine problems"?

If you have calibrated it so that Flight Idle gives you zero (the "centre" in FSUIPC), then I am now thinking that you have calibrated it wrong, and this is the problem. You surely need to calibrate so that the GROUND idle gives the zero!?

The problem is the same for the Flaps Axis. I do have by chance only four positions and they work not to bad. Peoples who are simulating planes with 7 or 8 positions must have a possibility to match the levers of the hardware with the soft, I mean the plane. If they can match using a Joystick axis 8 positions of flaps perfectly, then I should also be able to match 4 throttle positions. Am I wrong ???

I can easily use a simple joystick, calibrated for flaps through FSUIPC, to reliably select all 9 positions on the default 737. The flaps calibration facility does not, at present, provide any notches, however. All that is happening is that the increment is used to make the output value jump from one FS-notch to the next. You have to mark off your "detentes" to suit FS, not the other way round -- calibrate in FSUIPC to suit existing notches. I will certainly provide that method in the module I have planned -- I have already done something similar for the PFC quadrant with notched flaps.

Regards,

Pete